526 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Shepard sacrifices himself in Destroy. Fact.

Low EMS maybe.

Unless you're going into HYR territory, and imagining that all his/her legs and arms are blown off and thinking it's just a torso and head and it's the last gasping breath. I can't really say that isn't the case, but I'd say it's far fetched. Unless Bioware is more trollish than I thought.

you assume he actually knows he'll survive based on the games EMS score.....nice.

And you assume to read a sacrificial mindset when shooting the red tube.

I must've not turned on the subtitles there. Maybe there's some "mental dialogue" from Shepard that I missed.

I never assumed he had any mindset. After being told by the Catalyst that Destroy would essentially kill him, he still chooses Destroy,  that is literally saying that he finds his life for the Reapers is an acceptable trade-off. That's a sacrifice. No sort of nobility, and no particular mindset is needed in order to make a sacrifice. 

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 février 2014 - 03:59 .

[SwobyJ]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I'm pretty sure there's been plenty of soldiers who have literally sacrificed themselves for their comrades. Like taking a bullet, or covering a grenade. Seems pretty noble to me.

Nobility in a bubble maybe. The guy across the field may be doing the same for his comrades too. He's also noble in his own little world. But are they still noble when shooting at each other? Or maybe they're finaly noble when they're old men and hugging each other and meeting each other's grandkids.

Eh.. Probably all out of the scope of this thread. War is a giant clusterf*ck. I wouldn't put any of it on a pedestal. Probably a good idea to win though, if you're tossed into one.

Just wanted to say this is a great way of putting this.

Especially if the series advances like I think it will, in regards to organic/synthetic conflict.

[SwobyJ]

dreamgazer wrote...

Shepard possibly getting fried in Destroy is speculative, not objective. Always has been.

You're good. I like you.

[Clayless]

wolfsite wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

No, the Codex states that military planners have considered destroying mass relays in their quest to stop the Reapers because, due to Arrival, they now know they can be destroyed, but haven't actually gone through with it. It also doesn't say "regardless of how it is destroyed", it just says a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in the relay's solar system, which is true.

Saying that the codex states the release of energy, regardless of how it's destroyed, from a mass relay will destroy the system it's in just isn't true. The codex just states that military planners have considered destroying relays due to the events in Arrival and the amount of energy it released.

You are getting away from your original arguement, you stated the Relays were destroyed, a destroyed relay would release all it's energy destroying the system it was in.  The fact the systems were not destroyed indicates the relays were not destroyed as the only way for teh same amount of energy to be released without destroying the system would require a slower leak of the energy over a much longer period of time which would still indicate the relay's were not destoyed.

Again I am only argueing the fact that you stated they were destroyed while evidence has shown (even evidence you have provided) they were not destroyed.

I'm not. I'm not even going on a small tangent away from my original argument.

You're the one stating that the relays can't be destroyed, otherwise it would destroy the system it's in, I'm the one pointing out that relies on the assumption the Crucible released the energy the same way as a massive rock crashing into it did.

My argument hasn't changed one bit. Literally nothing has changed about it.

[wolfsite]

Robosexual wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

No, the Codex states that military planners have considered destroying mass relays in their quest to stop the Reapers because, due to Arrival, they now know they can be destroyed, but haven't actually gone through with it. It also doesn't say "regardless of how it is destroyed", it just says a ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in the relay's solar system, which is true.

Saying that the codex states the release of energy, regardless of how it's destroyed, from a mass relay will destroy the system it's in just isn't true. The codex just states that military planners have considered destroying relays due to the events in Arrival and the amount of energy it released.

You are getting away from your original arguement, you stated the Relays were destroyed, a destroyed relay would release all it's energy destroying the system it was in.  The fact the systems were not destroyed indicates the relays were not destroyed as the only way for teh same amount of energy to be released without destroying the system would require a slower leak of the energy over a much longer period of time which would still indicate the relay's were not destoyed.

Again I am only argueing the fact that you stated they were destroyed while evidence has shown (even evidence you have provided) they were not destroyed.

I'm not. I'm not even going on a small tangent away from my original argument.

You're the one stating that the relays can't be destroyed, otherwise it would destroy the system it's in, I'm the one pointing out that relies on the assumption the Crucible released the energy the same way as a massive rock crashing into it did.

My argument hasn't changed one bit. Literally nothing has changed about it.

Now you are trying to put words into my mouth, I never once said the relays can't be destroyed I was merely providing eveidence that the relay's in high EMS endings were not destroyed while you were saying they were destroyed.

you just countered by repeating the same thing over and over without providing ecidence from the ME3 EC ending that they were destroyed.

Modifié par wolfsite, 04 février 2014 - 04:03 .

[Coming0fShadows]

Is it really a sacrifice when every option presented to you will seemingly kill you? Let the reapers kill you, melt yourself into a bunch of wires, jump into a giant laser beam, or shoot some tubes and make a boom or something? You have no other choice....I dont see how choosing your style of death is really a sacrifice...

[Mr.House]

besterisgood wrote...

Is it really a sacrifice when every option presented to you will seemingly kill you? Let the reapers kill you, melt yourself into a bunch of wires, jump into a giant laser beam, or shoot some tubes and make a boom or something? You have no other choice....I dont see how choosing your style of death is really a sacrifice...

DOn't bother with the circle jerking of mcfly and robo.

[Steelcan]

I feel an urge to inundate this thread with sappy quotes about promises

[Clayless]

wolfsite wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

I'm not. I'm not even going on a small tangent away from my original argument.

You're the one stating that the relays can't be destroyed, otherwise it would destroy the system it's in, I'm the one pointing out that relies on the assumption the Crucible released the energy the same way as a massive rock crashing into it did.

My argument hasn't changed one bit. Literally nothing has changed about it.

Now you are trying to put words into my mouth, I never once said the relays can't be destroyed

I never said that. Re-read what you quoted.

I was merely providing eveidence that the relay's in high EMS endings were not destroyed while you were saying they were destroyed.

you just countered by repeating the same thing over and over without providing ecidence from the ME3 EC ending that they were destroyed.

The evidence you provided was assuming that the Crucible released the energy the same way that a massive rock crashing into it did. My evidence is the destroyed relays, the assumption that the Crucible didn't release the energy the same way a massive rock did, and the lack of destroyed systems.

[AlanC9]

Wait a minute. Do you guys actually disagree on anything here? Is anyone saying that the relays ever destroyed entire systems?

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 février 2014 - 04:10 .

[Clayless]

AlanC9 wrote...


Wait a minute. Do you guys actually disagree on anything here? Is anyone saying that the relays ever destroyed entire systems?

We disagree whether or not the relays were destroyed, as I pointed out in a post to someone else that they must be confused when they see the destroyed relays in Destroy.

He said that they can't be destroyed otherwise it would destroy the system.

I pointed out that relies on the assumption the Crucible released the energy the same way a massive rock did.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

So you're not just talking about the act of charging in, shooting.. just the mere fact of choosing it.

I can't genuinely comment on that actually. I knew too much about this game's ending before I played it. And I see a certain logic with high EMS.. it just means a well built version of the crucible. Not the faulty piece of crap the Catalyst thinks it is.

because you assume it doesn't know what it's talking about. I don't think it's lying. I don't think it's necessarily wrong either. I find it all quite subjective. 


Anyways, I'm simply speaking about things from Shepard's point of view. I'm not talking about meta-gaming, knowing what the endings are and choosing accordingly. Maybe someone who just chooses high ems destroy "because Shepard lives",  doesn't have a sacrificial mindset or any nobility. Regardless, Shepard doesn't know what we know. It's not like he's Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. Either way, we end up sacrificing a massive amount of time and resources and tech in order to destroy the Reapers. The Relays and Citadel take damage regardless. Lives are lost regardless.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 février 2014 - 04:19 .

[wolfsite]

Robosexual wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

I'm not. I'm not even going on a small tangent away from my original argument.

You're the one stating that the relays can't be destroyed, otherwise it would destroy the system it's in, I'm the one pointing out that relies on the assumption the Crucible released the energy the same way as a massive rock crashing into it did.

My argument hasn't changed one bit. Literally nothing has changed about it.

Now you are trying to put words into my mouth, I never once said the relays can't be destroyed

I never said that. Re-read what you quoted.

I was merely providing eveidence that the relay's in high EMS endings were not destroyed while you were saying they were destroyed.

you just countered by repeating the same thing over and over without providing ecidence from the ME3 EC ending that they were destroyed.

The evidence you provided was assuming that the Crucible released the energy the same way that a massive rock crashing into it did. My evidence is the destroyed relays, the assumption that the Crucible didn't release the energy the same way a massive rock did, and the lack of destroyed systems.

Now you are making things up.

You will notice (if you even read any of my posts) that I was stating that the relays could not have released all of there energy, this means I never once assumed the same amount of energy was being released.

Now for Destroyed relays


de·stroy

[dih-stroi] Show
IPA verb (used with object)
1. to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.
2. to put an end to; extinguish.
3. to kill; slay.
4. to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate.
5. to defeat completely.


They were able to repair the relays, thus they were not destroyed.


Also I suggest you re-read what you typed cause it proves otherwise of what you seem to think is true.

Modifié par wolfsite, 04 février 2014 - 04:17 .

[AlanC9]

Yeah, we do see relays being repaired in Control.

[Mcfly616]

Didn't some Dev come out and say that the Relays taking damage from an energy pulse travelling through the network was different than the effect that slamming an asteroid into does? I thought I remember seeing that in a quote or interview somewhere during the ending outrage. Something about the Crucible caused the Relays to essentially "overload", which is different than the utter destruction caused by a collision with a massive asteroid moving at a high rate of speed.


Idk. I'm not sure what dev was talking about it. And I don't have the link. Just thought I remembered that being a big deal back in the day.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Patrick Weekes on the ending and mass-relays:

Q: Did the mass relays pull an Arrival and go supernova?

A: No, they didn't. They overloaded, they didn't rupture. We really didn't mean to imply that the whole galaxy had been destroyed. People interpreted the ending in ways we really didn't expect.

[Nykara]

Massa FX wrote...

OP: In time you'll recover. ~ 1 year or so from now, you still won't understand the "why" it ended this way, but it'll hurt less.

Welcome to BSN!

No, it really doesn't!
I had my ME fix with the Citadel DLC. Now I am at the point where I feel as if I want to play around some more with Kaidan, Shep, Liara, Garrus and so on only I know that wont happen - ever and the thought of replaying through to ME3's ending is highly depressing. So it dulls for a while and then when you get to a 'Gee I wish I had more mass effect to play' you remember and feel just as bad about it. There's nothing that makes me look forward to the next ME game, not even close to how much I was looking forward to ME1 even, let alone 2 and 3. I loved that excitement and anticipation and now it's all gone.

[wolfsite]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Patrick Weekes on the ending and mass-relays:

Q: Did the mass relays pull an Arrival and go supernova?

A: No, they didn't. They overloaded, they didn't rupture. We really didn't mean to imply that the whole galaxy had been destroyed. People interpreted the ending in ways we really didn't expect.

That ends that arguement (thankfully)

Thanks for finding that HYR 2.0

Modifié par wolfsite, 04 février 2014 - 04:28 .

[Steelcan]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Patrick Weekes on the ending and mass-relays:

Q: Did the mass relays pull an Arrival and go supernova?

A: No, they didn't. They overloaded, they didn't rupture. We really didn't mean to imply that the whole galaxy had been destroyed. People interpreted the ending in ways we really didn't expect.

And this ladies and gents is why following your own lore is a good idea

[Mr.House]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Patrick Weekes on the ending and mass-relays:

Q: Did the mass relays pull an Arrival and go supernova?

A: No, they didn't. They overloaded, they didn't rupture. We really didn't mean to imply that the whole galaxy had been destroyed. People interpreted the ending in ways we really didn't expect.

Hence it was changed so they did not blow up, not that I expect Robo to stop his nonsense.