301 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

wolfhowwl wrote...



But they're not the same.

The Warden has no reason to suspect Loghain of betraying the King.

The game shows that Hawke knows Anders is up to something. Even though Anders is in Hawke's control, the player (or Cullen) is not allowed to do anything because the plot demands Anders succeed no matter what.

There is a reason the former was a decently received twist while the latter was castigated by frustrated players for its blatant railroading.

 I was comparing convincing Meredith from not attacking the mages  to Laghain's betryal not to Anders bombing.She really did not have a reason to attack the mages being that the one who did it was an apostate standing infront of her.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 04 février 2014 - 12:19 .

[Aaleel]

leaguer of one wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...



But they're not the same.

The Warden has no reason to suspect Loghain of betraying the King.

The game shows that Hawke knows Anders is up to something. Even though Anders is in Hawke's control, the player (or Cullen) is not allowed to do anything because the plot demands Anders succeed no matter what.

There is a reason the former was a decently received twist while the latter was castigated by frustrated players for its blatant railroading.

 I was comparing convincing Meredith from not attacking the mages  to Laghain's betryal not to Anders bombing.She really did not have a reason to attack the mages being that the one who did it was an apostate standing infront of her.

It's still not the same.  Hawke knows Meredith wants to use the Right of Annulment and wipe out the mages.  The Warden does not know Loghain is going to betray the King, so as far as the Warden is concerned at the time there is nothing to stop or not stop.

[leaguer of one]

Aaleel wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...



But they're not the same.

The Warden has no reason to suspect Loghain of betraying the King.

The game shows that Hawke knows Anders is up to something. Even though Anders is in Hawke's control, the player (or Cullen) is not allowed to do anything because the plot demands Anders succeed no matter what.

There is a reason the former was a decently received twist while the latter was castigated by frustrated players for its blatant railroading.

 I was comparing convincing Meredith from not attacking the mages  to Laghain's betryal not to Anders bombing.She really did not have a reason to attack the mages being that the one who did it was an apostate standing infront of her.

It's still not the same.  Hawke knows Meredith wants to use the Right of Annulment and wipe out the mages.  The Warden does not know Loghain is going to betray the King, so as far as the Warden is concerned at the time there is nothing to stop or not stop.

Ok, I'll give you that. But that was not the only thing I pointed out.

[TK514]

Veruin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
They make sense being that their simular plot elements that the player can't change.

There's a difference between having the knowledge to try and change the plot rather than being "Lolnope, you can't do anything"
  
That is where the teeth gnashing occurs.

Leandra's death is example.

i'm curious why you think Liandra's death was preventable by Hawke.  Most people who claim this remember the sequence of events wrong, attributing knowledge to Hawke that he doesn't actually have until she's already dead.

[Veruin]

TK514 wrote...

i'm curious why you think Liandra's death was preventable by Hawke.  Most people who claim this remember the sequence of events wrong, attributing knowledge to Hawke that he doesn't actually have until she's already dead.

Preventable is an overstatement, but Hawke should at least be able to take precautions.  If you do the quest, Hawke at least gets info on his victims and Leandra tells you she wants to go dating.  Something as small as asking Aveline to keep an eye on her or something would've gone a long way.

Modifié par Veruin, 04 février 2014 - 12:35 .

[leaguer of one]

Veruin wrote...

TK514 wrote...

i'm curious why you think Liandra's death was preventable by Hawke.  Most people who claim this remember the sequence of events wrong, attributing knowledge to Hawke that he doesn't actually have until she's already dead.

Preventable is an overstatement, but Hawke should at least be able to take precautions.  If you do the quest, Hawke at least gets info on his victims and Leandra tells you she wants to go dating.  Something as small as asking Aveline to keep an eye on her or something would've gone a long way.

How could you tell th diffence between a gift from a sutor and one from the killer? You did not know about her getting the call sign till after she was gone.

[SgtSteel91]

Veruin wrote...

TK514 wrote...

i'm curious why you think Liandra's death was preventable by Hawke.  Most people who claim this remember the sequence of events wrong, attributing knowledge to Hawke that he doesn't actually have until she's already dead.

Preventable is an overstatement, but Hawke should at least be able to take precautions.  If you do the quest, Hawke at least gets info on his victims and Leandra tells you she wants to go dating.  Something as small as asking Aveline to keep an eye on her or something would've gone a long way.

And if Leandra gets kidnapped anyway...?

[Veruin]

I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. I'm saying that the fact you cannot do anything to at least try and stop it is what bothers me.

Modifié par Veruin, 04 février 2014 - 12:38 .

[leaguer of one]

Veruin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
They make sense being that their simular plot elements that the player can't change.

There's a difference between having the knowledge to try and change the plot rather than being "Lolnope, you can't do anything"
  
That is where the teeth gnashing occurs.

Leandra's death is example.

You can say the same for Tamlin, the city elfs cousin, the castles best friend, and the noble dwarfs father.

[leaguer of one]

Veruin wrote...

I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. I'm saying that the fact you cannot do anything to at least try and stop it is what bothers me.

Wha are the signs it going to happen before it happens?

As some said before with Loghain, you did not know he was going to betray the king till it happens. With all the enemis Hawk has, why would he thing a randon serial kill will go after him mom. He did not know she was targeted till after she gone. The murders call sign could easily come from a sutor as much as the killer.

[Veruin]

leaguer of one wrote...
You can say the same for Tamlin, the city elfs cousin, the castles best friend, and the noble dwarfs father.

PC has no knowledge on what the taint is, much less how to cure it.

Shianni?  I don't know who that is.

Are you talking about the Couslands bedmate/guests?  Because if you bed them, they go to open the door and get shot in the head.  

Gets sick with an "illness" or possible poisoning, all while the PC is on the surface and can't do anything about it.

These are all really terrible examples for the topic.

[SgtSteel91]

Veruin wrote...

I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. I'm saying that the fact you cannot do anything to at least try and stop it is what bothers me.

I can understand that. Like you can't stop Anders' plot but you can try to talk him out of it and warn Cullen and the Grand Cleric about a possible attack. It doesn't matter in the end, but at least you tried to do something.

[TK514]

Veruin wrote...

TK514 wrote...

i'm curious why you think Liandra's death was preventable by Hawke.  Most people who claim this remember the sequence of events wrong, attributing knowledge to Hawke that he doesn't actually have until she's already dead.

Preventable is an overstatement, but Hawke should at least be able to take precautions.  If you do the quest, Hawke at least gets info on his victims and Leandra tells you she wants to go dating.  Something as small as asking Aveline to keep an eye on her or something would've gone a long way.

Except Liandra's dating has nothing to do with her abduction.  Plus, over a span of years the vigilance of even a dedicated bodyguard assignment is going to go lax.  Her death was as random as beng hit by a car, as far as Hawke's involvement and ability to prevent it is concerned.  She was literally a case of right face, wrong time.

Modifié par TK514, 04 février 2014 - 12:45 .

[AresKeith]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. I'm saying that the fact you cannot do anything to at least try and stop it is what bothers me.

I can understand that. Like you can't stop Anders' plot but you can try to talk him out of it and warn Cullen and the Grand Cleric about a possible attack. It doesn't matter in the end, but at least you tried to do something.

Warning Cullen actually should have done something, that part was just bad writing

[leaguer of one]

Veruin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
You can say the same for Tamlin, the city elfs cousin, the castles best friend, and the noble dwarfs father.

PC has no knowledge on what the taint is, much less how to cure it.

Shianni?  I don't know who that is.

Are you talking about the Couslands bedmate/guests?  Because if you bed them, they go to open the door and get shot in the head.  

Gets sick with an "illness" or possible poisoning, all while the PC is on the surface and can't do anything about it.

These are all really terrible examples for the topic.

"PC has no knowledge on what the taint is, much less how to cure it."
I mean when they find him again.

"Are you talking about the Couslands bedmate/guests?  Because if you bed them, they go to open the door and get shot in the head.  "
I did not even have Cousland on the list.

"Shianni?  I don't know who that is."
Wow.....I don't even...

[leaguer of one]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. I'm saying that the fact you cannot do anything to at least try and stop it is what bothers me.

I can understand that. Like you can't stop Anders' plot but you can try to talk him out of it and warn Cullen and the Grand Cleric about a possible attack. It doesn't matter in the end, but at least you tried to do something.

Again, what even hints to Her even being targeted?

Modifié par leaguer of one, 04 février 2014 - 12:54 .

[Veruin]

TK514 wrote...

Except Liandra's dating has nothing to do with her abduction.  Plus, over a span of years the vigilance of even a dedicated bodyguard assignment is going to go lax.  Her death was as random as beng hit by a car, as far as Hawke's involvement and ability to prevent it is concerned.  She was literally a case of right face, wrong time.

Either way, it's done and in a game I don't really care about.

[AresKeith]

leaguer of one wrote...

"PC has no knowledge on what the taint is, much less how to cure it."
I mean when they find him again.

He's a ghoul by then, still no helping him

"Shianni?  I don't know who that is."
Wow.....I don't even...

Not everybody plays that Origin

[OdanUrr]

Veruin wrote...

Hawke pretty much failed because the plot demanded Hawke fail.

Ladies and gentlemen: DA2.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 04 février 2014 - 12:49 .

[TK514]

Veruin wrote...

I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. I'm saying that the fact you cannot do anything to at least try and stop it is what bothers me.

I guess I understand that.  As wish fulfillment characters go, not having at least a say in what happens to the people close to you could be seen as frustrating, or an outright failure of the writing team.

I, on the other hand, liked that Hawke made the world better where he could, but was simply powerless to effect change in some circumstances.  It made him more relatable, to me, that he suffered greater than usual for the genre tragedies that were more than backstory.

not that I wasn't disgruntled, myself, by being forced to pick one or the other when it came to Mages and Templars.  I'd taken a carefully balanced stance until then, and suddenly they took it away.

[Veruin]

leaguer of one wrote...
"PC has no knowledge on what the taint is, much less how to cure it."
I mean when they find him again.

"Are you talking about the Couslands bedmate/guests?  Because if you bed them, they go to open the door and get shot in the head.  "
I did not even have Cousland on the list.

"Shianni?  I don't know who that is."
Wow.....I don't even...

So, as a ghoul?  As last I recall is that Tamlen vanishes completely and investigating the ruins yeilds nothing.

Then who are "The castle's best friends"?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Biggest janitor ever. Seriously even at the end she was cleaning up Anders' mess.

[leaguer of one]

AresKeith wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

"PC has no knowledge on what the taint is, much less how to cure it."
I mean when they find him again.

He's a ghoul by then, still no helping him

"Shianni?  I don't know who that is."
Wow.....I don't even...

Not everybody plays that Origin

1. A talking Ghoul?
2. I did even say her name and he picked it out. Some how he does not know her?

[leaguer of one]

Veruin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
"PC has no knowledge on what the taint is, much less how to cure it."
I mean when they find him again.

"Are you talking about the Couslands bedmate/guests?  Because if you bed them, they go to open the door and get shot in the head.  "
I did not even have Cousland on the list.

"Shianni?  I don't know who that is."
Wow.....I don't even...

So, as a ghoul?  As last I recall is that Tamlen vanishes completely and investigating the ruins yeilds nothing.

Then who are "The castle's best friends"?

Castless.
And Ghoul's talk?

[Veruin]

leaguer of one wrote...
1. A talking Ghoul?
2. I did even say her name and he picked it out. Some how he does not know her?

Let me use my PC demigod powers to cure Tamlen.  Or how about I make the trek all the way north to Marethari for her blight magic.

It's called a guess.  I guessed Shianni since she's the only other important city elf I can remember.