501 réponses à ce sujet

[rasloveszev]

Reaverwind wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Well, let's see:

Killed a mage girl and tried to convince her parents the Templars did it.

Lied to Hawke in order to make a bomb.

Tried to convince Hawke to help him destroy the Chantry and, if s/he doesn't agree, tries to emotionally blackmail him/her with phrases such as "If you don't help me, you've never loved me."

Forced the mages into a fight-or-die situation.

And those are just the ones I can recall right now. I'm fairly certain there's more evidence if I bothered to look. So, yes, he is very manipulative.

Very manipulative is just the start...  I would say he borders on being a psychopath in DA2 (Raises flame shield). I know there is a lot of love for Anders by some, I personally can't see it and just thing he's nuts.  Fighting for a cause you believe in is one thing,  this is just beyond the rational behaviour of someone who is sound of mind.  Then again there are two "people" inside that mind.

I never understood his appeal, and never liked him in Awakening. I didn't like Justice either - and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that joining a fanatic with a sociopath wouldn't turn out well.

He was like in Awakening because he was an Alistair clone. Once he developed his own personality, people get upset (as did I), but I got over it.  I personally liked him because of how admirable his cause was and I see him to be more of a victim of the Chantry and Meridith's dictatorship.

[General TSAR]

Anders.... victim.....

Heh, hehe, HEHEHE, HAHAHAH.

No.

He was nothing more than an apostate constantly complaining about Templars and claiming to know what's best for all mages.

He was never a mage of the Kirkwall circle and could have simply sod off to Tevinter, but no....

Modifié par General TSAR, 04 février 2014 - 09:51 .

[MisterJB]

Rassler wrote...
That's oversimplifying what I said. In short I said that violent, murderous revolutionaries play JUST as much a role in bringing about positive changes to injustice as anyone else. This doesn't however excuse their actions nor make it a good thing Also this no longer applies to our societies but only to feual ones like Thedas. Whether you like it or not, that's a fact of history.

 You are excusing their actions right now. When you deem them necessary, you automatically deem them acceptable due to necessity.

And one of the biggest ways they do it is exactly as did Anders: by giving reasonable people cause to step back and say "Hey, templars, you can't rise up and slaughter all the mages of every Circle in Thedas for the actions of one lone fanatic," which can quickly lead to "Hey, maybe part of the problem is that mages are being forced into desperate situations. We should rectify this."

Here is a joke, stop me if you've already heard it.

Three mages and a Templar walk into a bar and it takes a couple of hours for the townspeople to try to lynch them. (Asunder)

Ander's little stunt did not incite reflection nor did it show the world how "unjust" the Circles are. It just made people hate mages even more.

Modifié par MisterJB, 04 février 2014 - 10:05 .

[General TSAR]

Yep, public support is most definitely with the Order.

Good job Anders you bloody lunatic.

Modifié par General TSAR, 04 février 2014 - 09:50 .

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...
Three mages and a Templars walk into a bar and it takes a couple of hours for the townspeople to try to lynch them. (Asunder)

Ander's little stunt did not incite reflection nor did it show the world how "unjust" the Circles. It just made people hate mages even more.

Indeed. And when they did attack the group, it was more due to the recent attack on the Divine than anything Anders had done.

[Hellion Rex]

General TSAR wrote...

Yep, Public support is most definitely with the Order.

Good job Anders you bloody lunatic.

At the moment, I agree. However, the existence of the Red Templars might have the Order needing to do some serious PR work in the upcoming game.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

MisterJB wrote...


Ander's little stunt did not incite reflection nor did it show the world how "unjust" the Circles. It just made people hate mages even more.

Totally just figured it all out.

Anders is actually a self-hating mage, bombing the chantry to start that war is all really just him lashing out at the thing he hates most; mages.

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Yep, Public support is most definitely with the Order.

Good job Anders you bloody lunatic.

At the moment, I agree. However, the existence of the Red Templars might have the Order needing to do some serious PR work in the upcoming game.

Do drugs and get super powers. What more PR could you need? 

[Veruin]

Anders is the male Kelli. Semi-confirmed rumour?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Veruin wrote...

Anders is the male Kelli. Semi-confirmed rumour?

Anders is Kelli! *thunder and lightning*

[Br3admax]

Rassler wrote...

You said "You've offically confirmed that you are making all of this up though, so thank you." I said how does it confirm anything, I meant how does it confirm I'm making EVERYHING up?

You yourself said that you didn't know what happened, so you had to make up the number of people Anders actually saved.

So as it appears I was wrong about the refugees, but that was not the only point of my posts.

You made up things for all of your points, even the opinions of others.

Ugh the amount of misunderstanding in this thread is giving me a headache.

The craziness and back and forth passing in your posts are doing the same. 

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Yep, Public support is most definitely with the Order.

Good job Anders you bloody lunatic.

At the moment, I agree. However, the existence of the Red Templars might have the Order needing to do some serious PR work in the upcoming game.

Do drugs and get super powers. What more PR could you need? 

You forgot to mention the whole "descent into insanity plus turn into an anime ninja" part.

[Veruin]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Anders is Kelli! *thunder and lightning*

That explains the player / bisexuality.  *rimshot*

Modifié par Veruin, 04 février 2014 - 10:00 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Yep, Public support is most definitely with the Order.

Good job Anders you bloody lunatic.

At the moment, I agree. However, the existence of the Red Templars might have the Order needing to do some serious PR work in the upcoming game.

Do drugs and get super powers. What more PR could you need? 

You forgot to mention the whole "descent into insanity plus turn into an anime ninja" part.

SANITY IS FOR THE WEAK!

*In tiny lettering: Red Lyrium is not responsible for any feelings of intense paranoia, delusions of grandeur, or petrification that may occur, please consult your doctor before starting Red Lyrium*

[Lulupab]

MisterJB wrote...

 You are excusing their actions right now. When you deem them necessary, you automatically deem them acceptable due to necessity.

The end result of their despicable actions have actually helped morally good leaders take the required steps via moral high road. No I don't deem them acceptable at all, necessary evil doesn't automatically mean acceptable. 

MisterJB wrote...


Here is a joke, stop me if you've already heard it.

Three mages and a Templars walk into a bar and it takes a couple of hours for the townspeople to try to lynch them. (Asunder)

Ander's little stunt did not incite reflection nor did it show the world how "unjust" the Circles. It just made people hate mages even more.

The way I saw it  in Asunder the anger mages had over the incident, that a whole circle was annulled because of actions of a single mage who had no connection to the circle, really helped the cause of mage rebellion. This was the tension Fiona and Adrian abused to get the rebellion vote official. 

I mean all the mages did successfully break out of all cricles except Dairsmuid cricle. 

Modifié par Rassler, 04 février 2014 - 10:05 .

[rasloveszev]

General TSAR wrote...


He was never a mage of the Kirkwall circle and could have simply sod off to Tevinter, but no....

Freedom fighters don't sod off whenever they see oppression. They try to fight it. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Rassler wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Then what is he calling me crazy for? It was certainly because of me being an Anders fan. I haven't said anything much in this thread other than arguing about him.

Probably because you're jumping to wild conclusions based on unsupported assertions, while studiously ignorring any counterarguments and rebutals except by changing topic and repeating the process. These make for irrational arguments... in other words, crazy.

That's oversimplifying what I said. In short I said that violent, murderous revolutionaries play JUST as much a role in bringing about positive changes to injustice as anyone else. This doesn't however excuse their actions nor make it a good thing Also this no longer applies to our societies but only to feudal ones like Thedas. Whether you like it or not, that's a fact of history. And one of the biggest ways they do it is exactly as did Anders: by giving reasonable people cause to step back and say "Hey, templars, you can't rise up and slaughter all the mages of every Circle in Thedas for the actions of one lone fanatic," which can quickly lead to "Hey, maybe part of the problem is that mages are being forced into desperate situations. We should rectify this."

You are jumping to conclusions and ignoring counter arguments by changing the topic. Again.

What you are posting has nothing to do with what you are quoting. Literally nothing- the topic we were discussing in what you are quoting has nothing to do with Anders' morality and everything to do with why someone else would be viewing you in a certain way.

You are not making a rational counter-argument, or even acknowledgement, of the topic at hand. I suspect this is why FGW called you crazy.

And no, I am not calling you crazy.

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Yep, Public support is most definitely with the Order.

Good job Anders you bloody lunatic.

At the moment, I agree. However, the existence of the Red Templars might have the Order needing to do some serious PR work in the upcoming game.

Do drugs and get super powers. What more PR could you need? 

You forgot to mention the whole "descent into insanity plus turn into an anime ninja" part.

Why is that a bad thing? Crazy anime ninjas are the best characters. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

rasloveszev wrote...

General TSAR wrote...


He was never a mage of the Kirkwall circle and could have simply sod off to Tevinter, but no....

Freedom fighters don't sod off whenever they see oppression. They try to fight it. 

No matter how many people get killed in the crossfire.

[Lulupab]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Then what is he calling me crazy for? It was certainly because of me being an Anders fan. I haven't said anything much in this thread other than arguing about him.

Probably because you're jumping to wild conclusions based on unsupported assertions, while studiously ignorring any counterarguments and rebutals except by changing topic and repeating the process. These make for irrational arguments... in other words, crazy.

That's oversimplifying what I said. In short I said that violent, murderous revolutionaries play JUST as much a role in bringing about positive changes to injustice as anyone else. This doesn't however excuse their actions nor make it a good thing Also this no longer applies to our societies but only to feudal ones like Thedas. Whether you like it or not, that's a fact of history. And one of the biggest ways they do it is exactly as did Anders: by giving reasonable people cause to step back and say "Hey, templars, you can't rise up and slaughter all the mages of every Circle in Thedas for the actions of one lone fanatic," which can quickly lead to "Hey, maybe part of the problem is that mages are being forced into desperate situations. We should rectify this."

You are jumping to conclusions and ignoring counter arguments by changing the topic. Again.

What you are posting has nothing to do with what you are quoting. Literally nothing- the topic we were discussing in what you are quoting has nothing to do with Anders' morality and everything to do with why someone else would be viewing you in a certain way.

You are not making a rational counter-argument, or even acknowledgement, of the topic at hand. I suspect this is why FGW called you crazy.

And no, I am not calling you crazy.

Honestly I stopped paying attention when it became one versus five. I simply lost track. You seem reasonable so you should understand what I mean. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Rassler wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

 You are excusing their actions right now. When you deem them necessary, you automatically deem them acceptable due to necessity.

The end result of their despicable actions have actually helped morally good leaders take the required steps via moral high road. No I don't deem them acceptable at all, necessary evil doesn't automatically mean acceptable. 

MisterJB wrote...


Here is a joke, stop me if you've already heard it.

Three mages and a Templars walk into a bar and it takes a couple of hours for the townspeople to try to lynch them. (Asunder)

Ander's little stunt did not incite reflection nor did it show the world how "unjust" the Circles. It just made people hate mages even more.

The way I saw it  in Asunder the anger mages had over the incident, that a whole circle was annulled because of actions of a single mage who had no connection to the circle, really helped the cause of mage rebellion. This was the tension Fiona and Adrian abused to get the rebellion vote official. 

I mean all the mages did successfully break out of all cricles except Dairsmuid cricle. 

The mages were rallied. That is not the same as the 99% being rallied behind the mages, which you tried to argue earlier, which is precisely what did not happen (nor was it Anders' goal).

[MisterJB]

Rassler wrote...
The end result of their despicable actions have actually helped morally good leaders take the required steps via moral high road. No I don't deem them acceptable at all, necessary evil doesn't automatically mean acceptable. 

That is exactly what it means.

The way I saw it  in Asunder the anger mages had over the incident, that a whole circle was annulled because of actions of a single mage who had no connection to the circle, really helped the cause of mage rebellion. This was the tension Fiona and Adrian abused to get the rebellion vote official. 

I mean all the mages did successfully break out of all cricles except Dairsmuid cricle. 

Don't change topics. In the post I quoted, you talked about how Ander's terrorism would lead to people thinking how mages were being pushed into radicalism.
But that is not what happened, it just made people hate mages even more.

It encouraged mages to do some terrorism of their own but that is a completely different matter.

[Dean_the_Young]

Rassler wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Then what is he calling me crazy for? It was certainly because of me being an Anders fan. I haven't said anything much in this thread other than arguing about him.

Probably because you're jumping to wild conclusions based on unsupported assertions, while studiously ignorring any counterarguments and rebutals except by changing topic and repeating the process. These make for irrational arguments... in other words, crazy.

That's oversimplifying what I said. In short I said that violent, murderous revolutionaries play JUST as much a role in bringing about positive changes to injustice as anyone else. This doesn't however excuse their actions nor make it a good thing Also this no longer applies to our societies but only to feudal ones like Thedas. Whether you like it or not, that's a fact of history. And one of the biggest ways they do it is exactly as did Anders: by giving reasonable people cause to step back and say "Hey, templars, you can't rise up and slaughter all the mages of every Circle in Thedas for the actions of one lone fanatic," which can quickly lead to "Hey, maybe part of the problem is that mages are being forced into desperate situations. We should rectify this."

You are jumping to conclusions and ignoring counter arguments by changing the topic. Again.

What you are posting has nothing to do with what you are quoting. Literally nothing- the topic we were discussing in what you are quoting has nothing to do with Anders' morality and everything to do with why someone else would be viewing you in a certain way.

You are not making a rational counter-argument, or even acknowledgement, of the topic at hand. I suspect this is why FGW called you crazy.

And no, I am not calling you crazy.

Honestly I stopped paying attention when it became one versus five. I simply lost track. You seem reasonable so you should understand what I mean. 

It means you're not reading what you're replying to, even though it's on the screen as you type a response. That is, in a word, disrespectful.

To me, that is. Why should someone try and take the effort to converse with you on the basis of your views when you will not return the courtesy? 

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...
It encouraged mages to do some terrorism of their own but that is a completely different matter.

To what acts of terrorism would you be referring? White Spire?

[MisterJB]

This seems on-topic.


YAY! FREEDOM!


THANK YOU, ANDERS! SO SELFLESS OF YOU!


FREEDOM FEELS LIKE DEATH!


OH, I AM SO GLAD ANDERS IS AROUND TO DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR US!


I REALIZE NOW HOW THE CIRCLE IS AN INJUSTICE IN MANY PLACES BEYOND KIRKWALL. THANK YOU FOR OPENING MY EYES, ANDERS!
Right before closing them forever, of course.

Modifié par MisterJB, 04 février 2014 - 10:16 .