501 réponses à ce sujet

[eyesheild21]

OrayMoor wrote...

He definitely was manipulative, he used my Hawkes love for him to advance his goals! My hawke was a pro peace mage and he turnd out to be a terorist, but at the end hawke couldent kill him because she loved him.
I love it when bioware lets me create all of those interesting stories in their games.

Was he manipulative or was he being manipulated by someone from behind the scenes perhaps the main villain or person responsible for the tear in the veil.

[ames4u]

He'll probably behave like a high mighty s.o.b, but yes, I believe he will be manipulative. Even if Hawke is paired with him on that route.

[Rotward]

eluvianix wrote...

You have got to be kidding me. That's where you want to nitpick?

I was saying that Aveline used you more so than the others, not that she lied more than the others. Anders definitely takes the cake in that front. Still, Aveline needed Hawkes aid to remove the corrupt guard captian. Then she refused to investigate charges or corruption in her own ranks, and ignored a serial killer in the city. This resulted in elves being raped by the guard, and many women dying, including your mother. 

Then of course there's Isabella's selfishness coupled with the Arishok's incompetance killing half (exagerated) the city. Merril used Hawke, but was quite upfront about it, and can be refused. Same with Fenris, same with Varric. 

Modifié par Rotward, 05 février 2014 - 10:04 .

[thetinyevil]

MisterJB wrote...

Well, let's see:

Killed a mage girl and tried to convince her parents the Templars did it.

Lied to Hawke in order to make a bomb.

Tried to convince Hawke to help him destroy the Chantry and, if s/he doesn't agree, tries to emotionally blackmail him/her with phrases such as "If you don't help me, you've never loved me."

Forced the mages into a fight-or-die situation.

And those are just the ones I can recall right now. I'm fairly certain there's more evidence if I bothered to look. So, yes, he is very manipulative.

If you aren't a complete ass to Anders you can save the girl and if you don't. He does NOT try and convince her parents the templars did it.

Yes he lied to Hawk in order to make a bomb, I would have helped him if told me the truth, Hell I would have bright hot dogs and marshmellows.

The mages were already in a fight or die situation they just hadn't been brave enough to fight back.

Lets not forget about the hundrads if not thousands of lives he save in his clinic.

Saving Bethany/Carver if you bring all three into the deep roads.

There are a lot more but I can't think of them right now.

[Veruin]

thetinyevil wrote...

The mages were already in a fight or die situation they just hadn't been brave enough to fight back.

MisterJB wrote...

This seems on-topic.
 

YAY! FREEDOM!


THANK YOU, ANDERS! SO SELFLESS OF YOU!


FREEDOM FEELS LIKE DEATH!


OH, I AM SO GLAD ANDERS IS AROUND TO DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR US!


I REALIZE NOW HOW THE CIRCLE IS AN INJUSTICE IN MANY PLACES BEYOND KIRKWALL. THANK YOU FOR OPENING MY EYES, ANDERS! 
Right before closing them forever, of course.

Yes, they certainly seem brave and thankful that Anders took the first step for them.

The Tinyevil wrote....
Lets not forget about the hundrads if not thousands of lives he save in his clinic.

Oh, he saved hundreds if not thousands of people?  Where are you getting these numbers?  Your arse perhaps?

Realisticly, it's 100 max.  That's being generous too.

Modifié par Veruin, 05 février 2014 - 11:05 .

[thetinyevil]

Yes he killed them with his own two hands. It wasn't at all the templars who have been chomping at the bit to kill every mage in Kirkwall. No not at all. That is Anders dressed as a Templar.

[Veruin]

thetinyevil wrote...

Yes he killed them with his own two hands. It wasn't at all the templars who have been chomping at the bit to kill every mage in Kirkwall. No not at all. That is Anders dressed as a Templar.

Anders caused it.  That's the point.

[LPPrince]

Anders was counting on the Right of Annulment being enacted in response to his bombing.

So yes, he's responsible for those deaths. His manipulation of Hawke wasn't the only manipulation;he manipulated Meredith into reaching her breaking point.

[MisterJB]

thetinyevil wrote...
If you aren't a complete ass to Anders you can save the girl and if you don't. He does NOT try and convince her parents the templars did it.

He was going to until Aveline told him to stop trying to manipulate everyone around him.

Yes he lied to Hawk in order to make a bomb, I would have helped him if told me the truth, Hell I would have bright hot dogs and marshmellows.

Goodie for you. But the point is not whether what Anders did was wrong or extremely wrong, it's about whether he is manipulative and just because you would have supported turning every mage in Kirkwall into an unwilling martyr(which is what Anders was attempting to do), that doesn't change the fact Anders tries to manipulate Hawke into assisting his demented ass.

The mages were already in a fight or die situation they just hadn't been brave enough to fight back.

No, they were not. They were being kept away from the normal population. They were not being killed, they were not being trimmed and they would still be very much alive had Anders kept to himself.
Anders forced mages and Templars to fight each other to the death in Kirkwall and that is also manipulation which is the point of this thread.

Lets not forget about the hundrads if not thousands of lives he save in his clinic.

Saving Bethany/Carver if you bring all three into the deep roads.

There are a lot more but I can't think of them right now.

Can't come up with them right now, you mean. Yeah, Anders healed thousands of people in his small clinic that the Templars seemingly can't find despite thousands of people being able to.
Magic!

Oh and healing a few people doesn't change the fact he attempts to manipulate others on several occasions which is, again, the point of the thread.

[Rotward]

Veruin wrote...


Oh, he saved hundreds if not thousands of people?  Where are you getting these numbers?  Your arse perhaps?

Realisticly, it's 100 max.  That's being generous too.

That's as rediculous as houndreds of thousands. His clinic was the only one the poor had access to, and he was there for seven plus years. 

[smoke and mirrors]

Yes yes yes ! He lied/ didn`t tell the full story to hawk about bomb . My Hawk was trying to be a pro mage mediator and he took that away from Hawk .

[Lulupab]

@MisterJB While I clearly understand what manipulation you are talking about, no Hawke is canon. Meaning each different personality Hawke may have differs from another and indeed the game has included a personality that embraces what Anders is doing throughout the whole game so no Anders is not manipulating this Hawke. Basically when you choose this personality Anders is doing everything your hawke likes to do and he is getting all the blame for it as well, which makes the Hawke with named personality quite happy.

I cannot post screenshot from every event Hawke approves of Anders actions, I reloaded a save game and was able to get this, choosing the highlighted dialogue makes Hawke express he would have gladly helped Anders if he told him about his plan and the attempt to lie and not connect Hawke to destruction of chantry was unnecessary.

[LPPrince]

It doesn't matter what kind of personality Hawke has.

Regardless of someone's head canon for who Hawke is, Anders manipulates them. There is no deviance. Anders lies, tricks, and plays Hawke and co. regardless of how they feel about templars or mages.

Then uses Elthina and co.'s deaths as chess pieces in a move to cause Meredith to call for the Right of Annulment which she does, thus successfully manipulating her and causing that event to occur.

[Lulupab]

LPPrince wrote...

It doesn't matter what kind of personality Hawke has.

Regardless of someone's head canon for who Hawke is, Anders manipulates them. There is no deviance. Anders lies, tricks, and plays Hawke and co. regardless of how they feel about templars or mages.

Then uses Elthina and co.'s deaths as chess pieces in a move to cause Meredith to call for the Right of Annulment which she does, thus successfully manipulating her and causing that event to occur.

The said personality promises Justice that he will help him kill every last templar. This Hawke also says he is not expecting this whole thing to end without overthrowing the Templars. Catch my drift? Anders pales in comparison to this Hawke.

If anything this Hawke is happy his friend Anders lied because if he didn't have then this Hawke would definitely help Anders blow up the chantry and get the blame for it, making him a murderer as well.

[LPPrince]

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

[Cainhurst Crow]

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

I've been waiting since last week.

[LPPrince]

My condolences.

[Cainhurst Crow]

What? You mean you wouldn't co-sign a loan with anders if he told you to trust him?

[Lulupab]

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

At best Anders is tricking the said personality Hawke in a positive way like how a friend tricks you to protect you. Because in course of game this Hawke shows how much he enjoys killing Templars and anything that opposses full mage freedom. Anders is protecting this hawke by lying to him to not connect him to chantry incident in any way. Someone who takes part in destruction of chantry of Kirkwall is hardly the champion of Kirkwall anymore, don't you agree?

[LPPrince]

Rassler wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

At best Anders is tricking the said personality Hawke in a positive way like how a friend tricks you to protect you. Because in course of game this Hawke shows how much he enjoys killing Templars and anything that opposses full mage freedom. Anders is protecting this hawke by lying to him to not connect him to chantry incident in any way. Someone who takes part in destruction of chantry of Kirkwall is hardly the champion of Kirkwall anymore, don't you agree?

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

[Lulupab]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I've always felt like the phrase "you just need to trust me" to always be a bit of a red flag.

The sentences written on dialogue wheels can be tricky. Its what Hawke says after choosing that option matters not what is written there.

[Rotward]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What? You mean you wouldn't co-sign a loan with anders if he told you to trust him?

Not a chance. The guy is a manipulative jerkface.

Really? I would have gone with: he heals people for free, and couldn't pay the debt if his life depended on it. 

[KaiserShep]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I've always felt like the phrase "you just need to trust me" is always a bit of a red flag.

"I don't have to do squat except stay Hawke and die."