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[Lulupab]

LPPrince wrote...

Rassler wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

At best Anders is tricking the said personality Hawke in a positive way like how a friend tricks you to protect you. Because in course of game this Hawke shows how much he enjoys killing Templars and anything that opposses full mage freedom. Anders is protecting this hawke by lying to him to not connect him to chantry incident in any way. Someone who takes part in destruction of chantry of Kirkwall is hardly the champion of Kirkwall anymore, don't you agree?

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

And this is the part we discover that haters are generally more stubborn than fans, as always.

If you cannot fathom the difference between manipulation and trickery to protect someone then why are we even discussing this? As a reminder I was specificly talking about extreme pro mage personality Hawke. Not all Hawkes. Anders indeed manipulates all other personalities. 

You should have seen Sebastian's face when Hawke supports destruction of chantry. PRICELESS.

[smoke and mirrors]

What your talking about is role playing for different play thru`s .

[LPPrince]

Rassler wrote...

And this is the part we discover that haters are generally more stubborn than fans, as always.

If you cannot fathom the difference between manipulation and trickery to protect someone then why are we even discussing this? As a reminder I was specificly talking about extreme pro mage personality Hawke. Not all Hawkes. Anders indeed manipulates all other personalities. 

You should have seen Sebastian's face when Hawke supports destruction of chantry. PRICELESS.

Now thats just mean.

But here, http://www.merriam-w...nary/manipulate

-  to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose

Funnily enough, fits Anders perfectly. He manipulated everyone to serve his purpose.

Modifié par LPPrince, 06 février 2014 - 12:36 .

[Saints]

Let me get this straight.

Making someone do something without telling them what is about it -manipulation.

Making someone do something what telling them what it is about but cares for them it -trickery.

Seems legit.

Modifié par Saints944, 06 février 2014 - 12:39 .

[Lulupab]

LPPrince wrote...

Rassler wrote...

And this is the part we discover that haters are generally more stubborn than fans, as always.

If you cannot fathom the difference between manipulation and trickery to protect someone then why are we even discussing this? As a reminder I was specificly talking about extreme pro mage personality Hawke. Not all Hawkes. Anders indeed manipulates all other personalities. 

You should have seen Sebastian's face when Hawke supports destruction of chantry. PRICELESS.

Now thats just mean.

But here, http://www.merriam-w...nary/manipulate

-  to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose

Funnily enough, fits Anders perfectly. He manipulated everyone to serve his purpose.

What if people share his purpose? Namely the aggressive mage Hawke personality.

Modifié par Rassler, 06 février 2014 - 12:40 .

[LPPrince]

Saints944 wrote...

Let me get this straight.

Making someone do something without telling them what is about- manipulation.

Making someone do something what telling them what it is about but cares for them- trickery.

Seems legit.

Yeah I don't get it either.

[Lulupab]

smoke and mirrors wrote...

What your talking about is role playing for different play thru`s .

Its not "role play" per say. You can be a very extreme pro-mage Hawke. The personality exists in game. What is more extreme than wanting to kill every last Templar? Its not role-play, its a personality that exists in the game that you can choose.

[Dean_the_Young]

Rassler wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Rassler wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

At best Anders is tricking the said personality Hawke in a positive way like how a friend tricks you to protect you. Because in course of game this Hawke shows how much he enjoys killing Templars and anything that opposses full mage freedom. Anders is protecting this hawke by lying to him to not connect him to chantry incident in any way. Someone who takes part in destruction of chantry of Kirkwall is hardly the champion of Kirkwall anymore, don't you agree?

LPPrince wrote...

...

...

...I'm waiting for how that in any way discounts Anders as a manipulator.

And this is the part we discover that haters are generally more stubborn than fans, as always.

Actually, in this case you're just wrong. Being stubborn in the right against someone who is factually wrong is kind of what The Truth is all about.

If you cannot fathom the difference between manipulation and trickery to protect someone then why are we even discussing this?

Because they aren't different different, or mutually exclusive. They're both exercises of manipulation. Being manipulative for someone else's benefit is still being manipulative. It's using deceit to place someone in a situation that will shape their actions despite their own preferences or desires beforehand.

As a reminder I was specificly talking about extreme pro mage personality Hawke. Not all Hawkes. Anders indeed manipulates all other personalities.

Which would make him... a manipulative person.

Just drop your argument- Anders is manipulative, by your own admission.

You should have seen Sebastian's face when Hawke supports destruction of chantry. PRICELESS.

You realize there's nowhere in the game that Hawke supports the destruction of the chantry, right?

[Steelcan]

I don't understand this thread

[smoke and mirrors]

Rassler wrote...

smoke and mirrors wrote...

What your talking about is role playing for different play thru`s .

Its not "role play" per say. You can be a very extreme pro-mage Hawke. The personality exists in game. What is more extreme than wanting to kill every last Templar? Its not role-play, its a personality that exists in the game that you can choose.

Ok i understand , my Hawk was more middle of the road he/ she was a mage or had mages in the family ( of course ) . Hawk did kill Templars but was trying to find a peaceful way to end things .

Modifié par smoke and mirrors, 06 février 2014 - 12:45 .

[LPPrince]

Steelcan wrote...

I don't understand this thread

Anders. Manipulator. Fact. Trying to convince others of this. Those others unknowingly agree yet argue different points. Confusion.

So, yeah I can understand your lack of understanding.

[Cainhurst Crow]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Rotward wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What? You mean you wouldn't co-sign a loan with anders if he told you to trust him?

Not a chance. The guy is a manipulative jerkface.

Really? I would have gone with: he heals people for free, and couldn't pay the debt if his life depended on it. 

Hmm, this reminds me that I need to work on my snappy responses. I'll give you a 9/10, sir.

It's his clothes fund. You think snazzy black digs are cheap? Those were real crow feathers in the collar, that kind of craftmanship costs extra, ya know.

[Lulupab]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You realize there's nowhere in the game that Hawke supports the destruction of the chantry, right?

These images will answer everything. Thank the maker I had the exact save game file to load. 

Hawke agreeing:


Sebastian confirming agreement of Hawke. Also the face.





Anders thinks Hawke helping him is worse than Hawke stopping him. Which pretty much explains my point

[LPPrince]

So now the word "might" means "definitely"?

I don't even know why I just said this, whether Hawke would have or wouldn't have agreed to it doesn't matter.

The fact is, Hawke was not in on the plan. Anders LITERALLY manipulated Hawke, Meredith, etc etc to cause what resulted.

I posted the definition earlier, straight from a dictionary's webpage.

This is like, Bill Nye and Ken Ham from yesterday.

Modifié par LPPrince, 06 février 2014 - 12:55 .

[The Hierophant]

Anders has shown himself to be manipulative so what's the issue? This is like arguing against Isabela liking sex.

A more important issue now is that people unknowingly allowed their pc to French a cannibal who inturn probably moistened their ****** or wet their whistle.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Rassler wrote...

Anders thinks Hawke helping him is worse than Hawke stopping him. Which pretty much explains my point

No it doesn't actually, because he still lied to hawke, using trickery to keep hawke out of the loop of his plans, thus manipulating him into not being able to fully help or hinder him.

It's manipulation 101 really. Just because it was for the benefit of someone else doesn't make it less manipulative. If I were a military commander and I sent a squadron where my brother was in to a part of the battlefield that would have no conflict because I didn't want him getting hurt, and lied to him by telling him it was an important position to hold and the enemy would be pushing for it, that would still be manipulative. Doesn't matter what my intent, I manipulated someone to get what I wanted.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 06 février 2014 - 12:55 .

[LPPrince]

The Hierophant wrote...

A more important issue now is that people unknowingly allowed their pc to French a cannibal who inturn probably moistened their ****** or wet their whistle.

You lost me at "moistened".

[The Hierophant]

Rassler you make a good acolyte of Anders' cult of personality though.

[Lulupab]

LPPrince wrote...

So now the word "might" means "definitely"?

Haha. Claw at the details now if you wish. Hawke condones it, meaning he accepts it and Sebastians acknowledges it. Why wouldn't Hawke accept it? Said personality Hawke just wanted to kill all Templars a year go (in game time)

[Cainhurst Crow]

The Hierophant wrote...

Rassler you make a good acolyte of Anders' cult of personality though.

They'll call you ignornant because of that one obscure time in 2011 when they said anders might not have been 100% legit in blowing up the chantry but that he's still a good guy.

Then call you a hater.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 06 février 2014 - 12:58 .

[LPPrince]

Rassler wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

So now the word "might" means "definitely"?

Haha. Claw at the details now if you wish. Hawke condones it, meaning he accepts it and Sebastians acknowledges it. Why wouldn't Hawke accept it? Said personality Hawke just wanted to kill all Templars a year go (in game time)

Manipulation is not a negative. It is both a positive and a negative, depending on the situation. Whether or not someone condones a manipulation does not in any way affect whether that person was manipulated.

Hypothetical Ex-

*I want to date a girl*

Friend- "Hey man, you should go to this club at like, 5:30"

Me- "Sure, I don't know why though."

Friend- "Do it dude. Free drinks."

Me- "I don't drink but whatever."

*Girl's there, she was played into going as well, we get pushed and shoved into talking to each other, I get her number*

Me- "Damn, what were the chances of that? She was at the club too!"

Friend- "Yeah, I know. I sent her there."

Me- "You bast...hahahaha, aces."

^Friend manipulating me into getting this girl's number

The manipulation is a fact, regardless of whether the manipulated person approves or not.

This isn't hard to understand.

[LPPrince]

I feel like I'm being manipulated into posting more outside of a few Off-Topic section threads.

For The First Time In Foreeeeeever

[Lulupab]

LPPrince wrote...

Rassler wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

So now the word "might" means "definitely"?

Haha. Claw at the details now if you wish. Hawke condones it, meaning he accepts it and Sebastians acknowledges it. Why wouldn't Hawke accept it? Said personality Hawke just wanted to kill all Templars a year go (in game time)

Manipulation is not a negative. It is both a positive and a negative, depending on the situation. Whether or not someone condones a manipulation does not in any way affect whether that person was manipulated.

Hypothetical Ex-

*I want to date a girl*

Friend- "Hey man, you should go to this club at like, 5:30"

Me- "Sure, I don't know why though."

Friend- "Do it dude. Free drinks."

Me- "I don't drink but whatever."

*Girl's there, she was played into going as well, we get pushed and shoved into talking to each other, I get her number*

Me- "Damn, what were the chances of that? She was at the club too!"

Friend- "Yeah, I know. I sent her there."

Me- "You bast...hahahaha, aces."

^Friend manipulating me into getting this girl's number

The manipulation is a fact, regardless of whether the manipulated person approves or not.

This isn't hard to understand.

Duh. Manipulating someone to not take part in something horrible is positive especially if the said person is like this:







if given chance this Hawke will make Anders look like a saint. Extreme mage Hawke personaly aka agressive mage personality exists in game and it makes Anders look like a saint. But that is not the point. Manipulating this Hawke to not take part in destruction of chantry is positive because no matter how extreme he is thanks to Anders he has not done anything horrible.

But if Hawke is not an extreme pro-mage then Anders is manipulating them in a negative way. Using them to fruther his schemes.