167 réponses à ce sujet

[CybAnt1]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The French aren't gallic.. They are Frankish.. Which were Germanic... So anyone refering to the French as "Gauls" would be incorrect in more ways than one..

Dude. Please.

Gallic Books. In France. Open in 2014.
http://gallicbooks.com

Here's somebody doing the Gallic Shrug. In 2014.
http://french.about....y/aa020901g.htm

Modifié par CybAnt1, 05 février 2014 - 04:52 .

[Dutchess]

Why all the comparisons with Italians, Germans, etc.? They are all the same race: human. ****** sapiens. Vikings, Gauls and Romans? Human. The grey-skinned, horned-or-hornless, Qun-followers-or-not, are a race, and I believe that warrants a name to put them under. A name that is not based on their religion, their culture, or the borders of the land they happen to inhabit. They can be Qunari or Tal'Vasoth, but there still has to be an overarching category to place them in. We have Dalish and city elves, but they are both elves. We have surface dwarves and dwarves who live underground, castless and those with a caste, and yet they are all dwarves. We have Orlesians, Fereldans and Tevinters, but they are all still human.

I don't find the argument of "mutated" Kossith that convincing to dismiss the term as no longer adequate. The elves are an ancient race that lost their longevity and magic has become increasingly rare among them, and yet they are still called elves. The dwarves have build up resistance to lyrium by living so near to it for so long, and yet they are still dwarves.

So, no, I don't think the forced confusion is realistic at all. I feel it's contrived, and the argument that in Thedas, nobody cares and just calls all the horned guys Qunari, completely unbelievable. At the very least, Brother Genitivi is supposed to care.

[CybAnt1]

Call ALL Scandinavians Vikings? Only the ones who go study here.

Modifié par CybAnt1, 05 février 2014 - 04:55 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

CybAnt1 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The French aren't gallic.. They are Frankish.. Which were Germanic... So anyone refering to the French as "Gauls" would be incorrect in more ways than one..

Dude. Please.

Gallic Books. In France. Open in 2014.
http://gallicbooks.com

Here's somebody doing the Gallic Shrug. In 2014.
http://french.about....y/aa020901g.htm

That some dumbasses don't know their own heritage is not proof of anything.

I could open a bookstore called "Martian Literature" according to you, that would obviously make me Martian, and the product I sell of Martian nature.

[Zanallen]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Read my lips. At this moment, neither you nor I are on Thedas. We are on an internet forum, on a planet called Earth, going around the sun. 

In addition, we are not Qunari. Nor qunari. We are human beings, using language to talk to each other on the Internet. 

And I prefer to use acurate terms when discussing things. Kossith is not an accurate terms when discussing the species of the horned Qunari people. It is just as imprecise as just saying Qunari. This is because, as I have said, there is no term for that species currently in existance. Not in the games, not on the forums, not in any auxiliary lore. It is just as viable to call them dragonmen. Perhaps more so given the seeming connection between Qunari and dragons.

[CybAnt1]

That some dumbasses don't know their own heritage is not proof of anything.

I find it more amusing you think you know their heritage better than they do.

Why, you would think modern day French actually know Vercingetorix (~50 BCE), the Gaulish resistance leader, and put up statues of him in the 20th/21st century?

http://www.npr.org/2...istance-fighter

Silly French. 

C'mon guys. Try harder. I can bat these down all night. And will. 

[CybAnt1]

And I prefer to use acurate terms when discussing things. Kossith is not an accurate terms when discussing the species of the horned Qunari people. It is just as imprecise as just saying Qunari. This is because, as I have said, there is no term for that species currently in existance (*). Not in the games, not on the forums, not in any auxiliary lore. It is just as viable to call them dragonmen. Perhaps more so given the seeming connection between Qunari and dragons.

1. Then use ox-men or small-q qunari. Works for me, works for you.
2. (*) The World of Thedas and the Dragon Age Wiki, which cites the former, say hi. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Some English also venerate Harold Godwinson, even though the Anglo-Saxon havn't lived in England for centuries. The English are also of more Scandinavian and Normanic descent.

You know why? Because they feel affinity with the character through LOCATION, not descent.

The only thing you are blowing is smoke. You only exhibit usage of words that no longer hold any other relevance than historical. EXACTLY like the word 'Kossith'.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 05 février 2014 - 05:08 .

[CybAnt1]

The only thing you are blowing is smoke. You only exhibit usage of words that no longer hold any other relevance than historical. EXACTLY like the word 'Kossith'.

I sense whizzing goalposts.

The argument I believe we have been having is whether archaic words/archaisms go away and disappear, not on frequency of contemporary usage. 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 05 février 2014 - 05:11 .

[Zanallen]

CybAnt1 wrote...

1. Then use ox-men or small-q qunari. Works for me, works for you.
2. (*) The World of Thedas and the Dragon Age Wiki, which cites the former, say hi. 

The wiki for kossith states that it is unclear whether or not the term refers to one race or multiple races, which coincides with Mary Kirby's statement that the term refers to the culture of the people before they became the Qunari and not the race itself. As I do not have the World of Thedas, I cannot comment on what it states. I believe the page in question is 179 if anyone would be willing to provide an accurate quote and not a paraphrase.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The ONLY goalpost there ever was, was to show WHY using the word Kossith, in any other way than historical purpose, is wrong. So far you ave amptly provided exhibits as to why that is so.

[CybAnt1]

I don't have the WoT book, but the Wiki's talk page has many of our same arguments, but also these quotes.

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Talk:Kossith

In the WoT, kossith are explictly described as:

"the horned race's ancient name is "kossith". "the Qun's teachings are so pervasive that, under its law, a person's race does not really matter." - pages 40-41
"there was a time when the kossith race prayed to animist gods" - page 127
WoT glossary: "kossith: an archaic term for a race of large, horned people now known largely as Qunari." - page 179

[end]

Whoop, there it is. Whoop, there it is. Whoop, there it is.  

Modifié par CybAnt1, 05 février 2014 - 05:22 .

[Firky]

I just want to know if there are any non Qunari "kossith," like ones who have never had contact with the Qun, not Tal-Vashoth. (And I use kossith just as the race, obs.)

[EmperorSahlertz]

Even the WoT says that it is an ARCHAIC term, and yet you use it as proof that it is perfectly valid to keep using it? Are you daft?

And as for the in-universe referal to the term. The lead writers has already said that it was not supposed to be there. Soooooo... Yeah... You are still so very wrong in the constant use of the word.

[Zanallen]

CybAnt1 wrote...

I don't have the WoT book, but the Wiki's talk page has many of our same arguments, but also these quotes.

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Talk:Kossith

In the WoT, kossith are explictly described as:

"the horned race's ancient name is "kossith". "the Qun's teachings are so pervasive that, under its law, a person's race does not really matter." - pages 40-41
"there was a time when the kossith race prayed to animist gods" - page 127
WoT glossary: "kossith: an archaic term for a race of large, horned people now known largely as Qunari." - page 179

[end]

Whoop, there it is. Whoop, there it is. Whoop, there it is.  

Then there is a disconnect between WoT and the rest of the lore. I hope a dev will comment on this. Also, there is that childishness again.

[CybAnt1]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The ONLY goalpost there ever was, was to show WHY using the word Kossith, in any other way than historical purpose, is wrong. So far you ave amptly provided exhibits as to why that is so.

Drop by Paris some time. I'll take you to Nos Ancestres Les Gaulois.
http://www.nosancetr...om/en/ancestors
-- "Our Ancestors the Gauls". Open in 2014.

You seem to think the Franks destroyed all Gallic culture, words, names, and identity. They didn't. 

That's why they're still around, today. 

[phunx]

CybAnt1 wrote...

phunx wrote...

Are Anglo-Saxons at it again?

I've heard there is this ethnic group in the U.S. known as WASPs. 

What are they called again?

Oh yeah. 

White ANGLO SAXON Protestants. 

Notice how they put descriptors in front and back of it, cause it was sort of useless otherwise? Now those people would just be called "White Protestants".

[CybAnt1]

Then there is a disconnect between WoT and the rest of the lore. I hope a dev will comment on this. Also, there is that childishness again.

Oh I'm just having fun. After all, pedantry can only benefit from it. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

CybAnt1 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The ONLY goalpost there ever was, was to show WHY using the word Kossith, in any other way than historical purpose, is wrong. So far you ave amptly provided exhibits as to why that is so.

Drop by Paris some time. I'll take you to Nos Ancestres Les Gaulois.
http://www.nosancetr...om/en/ancestors
-- "Our Ancestors the Gauls". Open in 2014.

You seem to think the Franks destroyed all Gallic culture, words, names, and identity. They didn't. 

That's why they're still around, today. 

There are no Gauls around today... Their legacy is sure. But actually Gallic people? No. Long gone. Their tribes dissolved and the people interbred with other tribes. The Gallic people are extinct. Despite whatever some people may wish and claim.

[CybAnt1]

Even the WoT says that it is an ARCHAIC term,

And the reason I have been pointing out why archaic terms are still in use today by Earthlings is .... hmmmm? 

The lead writers has already said that it was not supposed to be there.

[CybAnt1]

Their legacy is sure. 

Put the word "linguistic" in front of legacy, and we have nothing left to argue. :innocent:

BTW, some modern Irish, those not-Celts, still speak Gaelic, a Celtic language.... Gaelic, of course, being derived from the Gaels/Gauls, who are no longer around. 

You know, I really chuckle when I watch films that talk about the "vanished Mayan people". That claim the Maya disappeared centuries ago. The Mayans I met, who still speak Mayan, in Chiapas, ten years ago, would beg to differ.

Modifié par CybAnt1, 05 février 2014 - 05:45 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Even the WoT says that it is an ARCHAIC term,

And the reason I have been pointing out why archaic terms are still in use today by Earthlings is .... hmmmm? 

Yes. They are bieng used mainly for two reasons: For historical record/debate or to conjure up some notion of historical association. Which of these are you hoping to achieve in your incessant use of 'Kossith'?
Saying Kossith and refering to the Qunari are as inacurate as refering to the Iranians as Persians or the Scandinavians as Vikings.

Sure.. If you wish to discuss actual Kossith culture, then you can use the term. It would indeed be wrong to use the term Qunari in that instance. Just as it would be wrong to refer to Gallic culture as French culture.

[EmperorSahlertz]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Their legacy is sure. 

Put the word "linguistic" in front of legacy, and we have nothing left to argue. :innocent:

BTW, some modern Irish, those not-Celts, still speak Gaelic, a Celtic language.... Gaelic, of course, being derived from the Gaels/Gauls, who are no longer around. 

MY GOD! SOMEONE STILL SPEAKS LATIN!!!! THE ROMAN EMPIRE NEVER FELL!!!!!111oneoneoneelven

[CybAnt1]

Yes. They are bieng used mainly for two reasons: For historical record/debate or to conjure up some notion of historical association.

And who are the people using the word on Thedas who we will never meet but are still there, nonetheless? Oh yeah, the rare (but existent) historical scholars like Brother Genitivi. 

Which of these are you hoping to achieve in your incessant use of 'Kossith'?

What I am trying to achieve is to get the anti-k-word faction to dial it down. As I think I've said, like, oh, 20 times, is I'm ok with other terms that do the same things. Horny-folk! 

Saying Kossith and refering to the Qunari are as inacurate as refering to the Iranians as Persians 

Last I checked, they speak the Farsi language TODAY, otherwise known as ... oh yeah, PERSIAN. 

Sure.. If you wish to discuss actual Kossith culture, then you can use the term. 

While historical studies of what culture they had before the Qun could be interesting, I'm actually continually suggesting that a racial identifier (solely) for in-forum use is useful, and I still don't get why people claim kossith is not a racial term, just because developers have changed their minds.  :innocent:

[CybAnt1]

I should find a nicer way to kill boredom while I wait for real reveals. 

But anyway.