1765 réponses à ce sujet

[Jorji Costava]

Let me add this little-mentioned scene from ME1 to the list: It's the one between Saren and Benezia right after Eden Prime, where Saren says, "AAAAARRRGGHH!!!!! This human must be . . . eliminated." Pure camp, and given that the villain is supposed to have some kind of pathos (never successfully realized in my opinion), this scene was too much an exercise in over-the-top villainy.

[DeinonSlayer]

osbornep wrote...

Let me add this little-mentioned scene from ME1 to the list: It's the one between Saren and Benezia right after Eden Prime, where Saren says, "AAAAARRRGGHH!!!!! This human must be . . . eliminated." Pure camp, and given that the villain is supposed to have some kind of pathos (never successfully realized in my opinion), this scene was too much an exercise in over-the-top villainy.

This, this, this, this, this. Almost painful to watch.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Obadiah wrote...

My vote for one of the worst scenes is the Rachni queen execution scene in ME1. Shepard acts like such a righteous blowhard when he releases the acid. I would have liked the option to execute the Rachni queen with some dignity, to ask from some last words or something.

Of course, I'd have also like an option to just turn the queen over to the council. I mean, if you release the queen into Noveria, what does that do? The queen is now stranded in the middle of a research facility in a frozen mountain tundra, and her only option to get off planet is to steal a ship - basically forcing her into criminal behavior (maybe there is a shuttle at Peak 15 she can use to get off planet).

Anyway it's a questionably written resolution to a situation that suddenly gets revealed at the end of the Noveria mission.

I think I know where you are coming from. A lot of the 'big' decisions in Mass Effect I think could have benefitted from a Maelon's data decision, where multiple choices are introduced that lead to the same outcome but change the tone. For example, the Rachni scene could have benefitted from two options to kill the queen, one could be the current in game Renegade option and the other could be something along the lines of, "Sorry, I can't take that chance," and Shepard maybe looks regretful while pulling the trigger. Same with letting here live. Keeping her in the cage could be a neutral option.

This seems like a simple fix for much of the bigger criticisms levied against some of the larger choices. The Collector Base decision being one of them. Two destroy options could have been introduced, the current one for people who play like that and another more pragmatic option to Destroy the base because no one can be trusted with it.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 08 février 2014 - 06:46 .

[DeinonSlayer]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

My vote for one of the worst scenes is the Rachni queen execution scene in ME1. Shepard acts like such a righteous blowhard when he releases the acid. I would have liked the option to execute the Rachni queen with some dignity, to ask from some last words or something.

Of course, I'd have also like an option to just turn the queen over to the council. I mean, if you release the queen into Noveria, what does that do? The queen is now stranded in the middle of a research facility in a frozen mountain tundra, and her only option to get off planet is to steal a ship - basically forcing her into criminal behavior (maybe there is a shuttle at Peak 15 she can use to get off planet).

Anyway it's a questionably written resolution to a situation that suddenly gets revealed at the end of the Noveria mission.

I think I know where you are coming from. A lot of the 'big' decisions in Mass Effect I think could have benefitted from a Maelon's data decision, where multiple choices are introduced that lead to the same outcome but change the tone. For example, the Rachni scene could have benefitted from two options to kill the queen, one could be the current in game Renegade option and the other could be something along the lines of, "Sorry, I can't take that chance," and Shepard maybe looks regretful while pulling the trigger. Same with letting here live. Keeping her in the cage could be a neutral option.

This seems like a simple fix for much of the bigger criticisms levied against some of the larger choices. The Collector Base decision being one of them. Two destroy options could have been introduced, the current one for people who play like that and another more pragmatic option to Destroy the base because no one can be trusted with it.

This, with another option for "keep the base and give it to someone-not-Cerberus."

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 08 février 2014 - 06:48 .

[AlanC9]

I'm not sure if this one's really on topic, but you can come up with a very silly situation at Peak 15. If you try to get the antidote for the biotoxin, you're confronted by Alestia Iallis plus geth and commandos. She shoots one of Ventralis' guards to get to you. Thing is, if you then go down to the hot labs, you come up to find out that Ventralis also had orders to kill you.

So, Benezia gives two different people orders to kill Shepard, but decides not to tell them that they're working together? Usually you won't see this happen since Han Olar gives you a back-door way to Benezia, and once you've killed her Ventralis just vanishes for some reason, but it's like the two mission paths don't have anything to do with each other.

[durasteel]

Fixers0 wrote...

The Whole ME3 prologue, but especially the defense committee scene.

I agree with this. It felt like a rushed first draft--I think the VO actors could have improv'd better dialog.

Modifié par durasteel, 08 février 2014 - 07:48 .

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

I might be missing something here... but I always thought Ventralis gives you a slide if you helped those sick people. So he won't get in your way afterwards (even if he was possibly ordered to).

I don't think that's the case. I played it out a few weeks ago and Ventralis still attacked.

[Bfler]

When the large Normandy lands unharmed in front of Harbinger, who shreds everything else in the area.

Modifié par Bfler, 08 février 2014 - 09:43 .

[Fixers0]

Bfler wrote...

When the large Normandy lands unharmed in front of Harbinger, who shreds everything else in the area.

Because the writers wanted it be.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Bfler wrote...

When the large Normandy lands unharmed in front of Harbinger, who shreds everything else in the area.

Followed by that like 7 second stare where Harbinger stops firing altogether and looks lazily as the Normandy flies away.

[DeinonSlayer]

Fixers0 wrote...

Bfler wrote...

When the large Normandy lands unharmed in front of Harbinger, who shreds everything else in the area.

Because the writers wanted it be.

They dug a bit of a hole for themselves with the teleporting squadmates pre-EC. That was the best they could do to dig themselves out.

On top of all the fleets being stranded, Joker inexplicably pussing out, crew requiring different kinds of food being permanently marooned on Planet Nowheria, et al it was just one more problem which never would have survived a peer review process where the reviewers were half awake. How they didn't stop for five seconds and notice these kinds of problems they were creating the first time through is beyond me. I have to seriously wonder if they were smoking something.

I don't think they really looked at anything beyond how cool they thought everyone would think Synthesis was. The "planet eden" scene has literally no other purpose - they wanted the Normandy to end up there, and it didn't matter what they had to stomp over to get it there - including internal consistency.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 08 février 2014 - 11:33 .

[CroGamer002]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Let me add this little-mentioned scene from ME1 to the list: It's the one between Saren and Benezia right after Eden Prime, where Saren says, "AAAAARRRGGHH!!!!! This human must be . . . eliminated." Pure camp, and given that the villain is supposed to have some kind of pathos (never successfully realized in my opinion), this scene was too much an exercise in over-the-top villainy.

This, this, this, this, this. Almost Too painful to watch.

FTFY

[Wulfram]

No one mentioned Benezia's death scene with Liara?

[congokong]

Obadiah wrote...

My vote for one of the worst scenes is the Rachni queen execution scene in ME1. Shepard acts like such a righteous blowhard when he releases the acid. I would have liked the option to execute the Rachni queen with some dignity, to ask from some last words or something.

Of course, I'd have also like an option to just turn the queen over to the council. I mean, if you release the queen into Noveria, what does that do? The queen is now stranded in the middle of a research facility in a frozen mountain tundra, and her only option to get off planet is to steal a ship - basically forcing her into criminal behavior (maybe there is a shuttle at Peak 15 she can use to get off planet).

Anyway it's a questionably written resolution to a situation that suddenly gets revealed at the end of the Noveria mission.

I agree. Killing the queen was done as if Shepard was a heartless killer with that evil look and no sympathy. I know killing the queen makes logical sense but Shepard could feel remorse over it since the queen is defenseless.

I suppose leaving the queen to the council would be worse than killing it because they'd just run tests on it. All that would do would be Shepard avoiding making a tough call.

[grey_wind]

osbornep wrote...

Let me add this little-mentioned scene from ME1 to the list: It's the one between Saren and Benezia right after Eden Prime, where Saren says, "AAAAARRRGGHH!!!!! This human must be . . . eliminated." Pure camp, and given that the villain is supposed to have some kind of pathos (never successfully realized in my opinion), this scene was too much an exercise in over-the-top villainy.

This is even more priceless when you listen closely and realize Sovereign's voice is layered over Saren's in this scene. 

[congokong]

fr33stylez wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Considering Shepard witnessed that the Reapers were minutes away from invading the galaxy in Arrival, why would he agree to fly to earth and remain in lockdown for 6 months while the Reapers fly to the next Relay?

Because Shepard, unlike the BSN dwelling wannabe rambos, realised that there is no way he could possibly do anything to stop an invading armada on with his dozen random henchmen? You need resources (shipyards, weapons, crew for hundreds of warships, scientists) so unless you want Shepard to magically pull all of these things from his read (like Cerberus did) there's nothing Shepard can do without the support of the Alliance or Council.

Hypothetical question: Shepard evades capture and is now on the run from the Alliance, and the baterians who are now out for his blood will probably have put out a substantial bounty on Shepard's head. How is Shepard - one single infantryman - going to stop an armada of superdreadnoughts (ships impervious to conventional dreadnought fire capable of taking out conventional dreadnoughts with a single hit). What would you have Shepard do?

Again, how is anything that actually transpired between ME2 and ME3 address anyting you said above? What resources did Shepard gather between Arrival and the invasion? Everyone in the galaxy reacted to the invasion, not to anything Shepard did.

Why would the Alliance be after Shepard? What did he do? Is Hackett also under custody?

Why would the Batarians be satisfied with Shepard simply being under lockdown? Why not attack? What was the Allaince gameplan? Wait for the Reapers to invade so the Batarians would forget/be already dead?

What was the Alliance's excuse if you didn't play Arrival? Why wasn't there war b/w the Alliance and Batarians?

Alliance: Oh an Alliance Spec Op team threw an Asteroid into 300K Batarians...but they're dead too so it's all good!....oh and we have Shepard in lockdown!
Batarians: K 

If Shepard was so willing to enlist the help of the Alliance, it makes me wonder why he did do that when he woke up ont he ship of a terrorist organization.

What would I have done? If they reveal the uncovering of the Superweapon by Liara snooping around some archives in Mars, they surely could've built a narrative where Shepard and his team I dont know...discovered it on their own, then presented that evidence to the council? He was a Spectre after all.

Mass Effect tends to leave plots vague when they don't make much sense. As I said in my OP, Liara gunning for the Shadow Broker instead of joining Shepard to take down the Collectors makes little sense. But since they knew Liara would become the Broker in LotSB they had to keep Liara on Illium. Therefore, Shepard just doesn't make an argument like what I said in my OP because Liara couldn't have a valid rebuttal.

The whole Shepard being on trial for either Arrival or Cerberus bothers me. Again, it's left very vague. Besides the plotholes you listed, I felt like Shepard was letting the galaxy down by surrendering to backroom politics while Liara and Garrus were doing everything in their power to stop the impending invasion. And after Shepard is released he/she salutes everything in blue as if there's no hard feelings about the Alliance tipping off the batarians about Shepard "acting alone" in Arrival or just arresting Shepard for working with Cerberus to take down the Collectors. Also, Liara seems to have no hatred for Hackett for his part in Shepard's detention and possible execution after all the trouble she went through to get Shepard back. It seemed if the reapers weren't going to kill Shepard again, political BS would.

[AlexMBrennan]

I suppose leaving the queen to the council would be worse than killing it because they'd just run tests on it.

Why? Because it looks alien to you, and those stupid UFO flicks had scientists dissecting aliens? The Council already knows all about the Rachni from the 300 years of war.

All that would do would be Shepard avoiding making a tough call.

Shepard's mandate is hunting down Saren, so "the right thing" (in the sense that no "good" person would be happy to be made a completely above the law Spectre; read your constitution if you disagree) to contact his superiors when he runs in a situation where he has to decide the fate of an entire species.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 février 2014 - 01:42 .

[grey_wind]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but nearly every scene between Liara and Benezia in ME1 is simply awful. Liara's reactions, first to the news that her mother is involved in treason against the Council and later on to Benezia's death, are so stilted and emotionless that they border on sociopathic.

[dreamgazer]

Wulfram wrote...

No one mentioned Benezia's death scene with Liara?

I usually do in these conversations.  Guess it slipped through the cracks.  

[congokong]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I suppose leaving the queen to the council would be worse than killing it because they'd just run tests on it.

Why? Because it looks alien to you, and those stupid UFO flicks had scientists dissecting aliens? The Council already knows all about the Rachni from the 300 years of war.

All that would do would be Shepard avoiding making a tough call.

Shepard's mandate is hunting down Saren, so "the right thing" (in the sense that no "good" person would be happy to be made a completely above the law Spectre; read your constitution if you disagree) to contact his superiors when he runs in a situation where he has to decide the fate of an entire species.

I notice you've been trolling my posts by disagreeing with anything I say.