1765 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

The hangover scene is probably why in subsequent playthroughs (I saved her first time through) it's Ashes to Ashes.

[dreamgazer]

TheMyron wrote...

Plus, the way side stories are put out needs to be reconsidered; a cheap cartoon for Paragon Lost, Really, BW? What do you think your audience consists of, a bunch of children?

Nothing at all wrong with animation, when it's done right. 

Paragon Lost even had its moments, despite having overall execution issues. 

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

What's so bad about the hangover scene? Am I missing something? I barely remember it.

It embellishes Ashley's alcohol-drinking side and kinda makes her the butt of the joke.

I don't exactly disagree. Had she been drinking a cup of coffee while hunched at a table or something, instead of writhing on the ground, it'd be better. 

[von uber]

StreetMagic wrote...

What's so bad about the hangover scene? Am I missing something? I barely remember it.

I found it utterly stupid and not even remotely funny.
Drinking in a club is one thing,  but being found wasted in the crew lounge lying on the floor when you are supposed to be on duty and on a critical mission? 

It was a ridiculous scene. The drinking competition in citadel was even dafter. 

[congokong]

StreetMagic wrote...

I'm kind of glad John Dombrow (writer of Thessia) is gone. He also wrote Tuchanka, which was great.. but even then, the emotional high points are kind of one sided in the same way Thessia is. He also wrote Wrex and Garrus. When I first played, I liked them, but it all started grating on me after awhile. I don't see much replay value in the way it's all written. It fits one kind of Shepard. Try to make a different character and the game starts to annoy (me at least).

I'm sure I'm in the minority though. A lot of people like this stuff. Which is OK. Please don't bite my head off.

edit: Who am I kidding? Do your worst. I just attacked Wrex, Garrus, and Liara in one post.

No... I actually prefer Wreav in ME3. Wrex changes from the solemn grunt of ME1 into a jolly, smiling krogan in ME3. Everything about Wrex's demeanor and being the leader of the krogan is too "convenient" for me ...unless you destroy Maelon's data and don't apologize. Then it's a bit sad. I missed his absence from the Citidel DLC when I killed him on Virmire.

[Darks1d3]

StreetMagic wrote...

congokong wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I'm kind of glad John Dombrow (writer of Thessia) is gone. He also wrote Tuchanka, which was great.. but even then, the emotional high points are kind of one sided in the same way Thessia is. He also wrote Wrex and Garrus. When I first played, I liked them, but it all started grating on me after awhile. I don't see much replay value in the way it's all written. It fits one kind of Shepard. Try to make a different character and the game starts to annoy (me at least).

I'm sure I'm in the minority though. A lot of people like this stuff. Which is OK. Please don't bite my head off.

edit: Who am I kidding? Do your worst. I just attacked Wrex, Garrus, and Liara in one post.

No... I actually prefer Wreav in ME3. Wrex changes from the solemn grunt of ME1 into a jolly, smiling krogan in ME3. Everything about Wrex's demeanor and being the leader of the krogan is too "convenient" for me ...unless you destroy Maelon's data and don't apologize. Then it's a bit sad. I missed his absence from the Citidel DLC when I killed him on Virmire.

I like Wreav as well. He comes off genuinely intimidating and dangerous. It gives weight to the Salarians' fears. Although I think the Voice actor was better in ME2.

Pfft, Grunt is much more intimidating than Wreav.

I kind of liked Wreav in ME2. In ME3 however, he just sounds like a blowhard and I have a hard time taking him seriously.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think the main problem with ME3 Wrex is that suddenly he's king of the Krogan and his insistence on curing the Genophage seems out of character with his progressive views.

As an aside, did any one else want to end the Genophage arc with the Genophage intact but the Krogan surpassing it with their own efforts?

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 13 février 2014 - 02:40 .

[Darks1d3]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

I think the main problem with ME3 Wrex is that suddenly he's king of the Krogan and his insistence on curing the Genophage seems out of character with his progressive views.

As an aside, did any one else want to end the Genophage arc with the Genophage intact but the Krogan surpassing it with their own efforts?

Well, Wrex was in the process of helping the Krogan do just that in ME2. It would have been nice to see him actually succeed with his plans. Unfortunately, with the Reapers destroying all know "advanced" species, his plan would be fruitless. In short, curing the Genophage was the only way for the Krogan to survive this war. (Atleast, Bioware made that the case with the EC). 

[Darks1d3]

StreetMagic wrote...

Darks1d3 wrote...


Pfft, Grunt is much more intimidating than Wreav.

I kind of liked Wreav in ME2. In ME3 however, he just sounds like a blowhard and I have a hard time taking him seriously.

Grunt just likes to fight, but he isn't bent on power. He isn't a threat unless you ****** him off. That's all I meant.

Fair point. Wreav certainly adds more weight to the Genophage decision. Wrex and Eve kind of make it too easy.

EDIT- I'm actually curious how Eve's funeral scene goes with Wrex instead of Wreav, but I can't find anything on Youtube.

Modifié par Darks1d3, 13 février 2014 - 02:53 .

[TheMyron]

StreetMagic wrote...

I was entertained by Paragon Lost. I figured they made it because Vega comes out of nowhere and maybe they thought he deserved an intro. I'm not crazy about it, but whatever. The games compel me to scrutinize things a bit more.. it's more personal. This was just a side story.

True, I'm just saying: Couldn't they make a CG graphic animation that resembles the game cutscenes instead?

[ImaginaryMatter]

I1 Trust wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

But we see the Council conspicuously not restricting access to the room with the controls. All sorts of people are in there.

The Council didn't know the master control unit was there. And if you talk to Wrex he says "Ten to one there's a sniper tracking our every step."

I assume the security measures are strict in ME1 although not necessarily visible. The Council may be a mostly useless group but they aren't totalitarian so I doubt they would want legions of armed guards standing around the Volus asking for a spot on the Council.

[elrofrost]

RangerSG wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@txgoldrush:
Read my mission-by-mission review, there I have explained things in detail and have acknowledged the things that work while criticizing those that don't within the scenes mentioned. At this time, I can't be bothered to go into the details again.

Only one thing: On Thessia, Shepard acts as if Thessia could've been saved if he had acted differently. That's a load of crap that makes no sense at all. It is forced drama.

No, I saw it...sorry, but you are trying to criticize ME3 because it isn't what you want it to be, not because of what it is. Most of you criticizing many aspects of the game simply do not see why Bioware made the choices they did.

"I should've known" that Cerberus was there? "Not good enough"? What crazy logic is that?

The logic is, if you see scientists with their throats slit, you keep your guard up. Shepard should have taken it with him instead of trying to talk with it in the temple.

To a point, only towards ending the war much sooner. Even the scene with the asari councilor, its more about Shepard not succeeding than about saving Thessia.

Nevermind that really Shepard does NOT brood for long. The case is being way overstated here.

I'd agree with you, except  Shepard then tells Anderson, "Losing Thessia wasn't in the playbook." 

Really? The Asari did less to prepare for war than perhaps any Council species. The Asari are repeatedly said to be weak in frontal attacks, which is the 'only' way the Reapers come at you. And the Reapers have steamrolled the 2 largest Navies in the galaxy (Turian and Human) already. Earth and Palavan are burning, it takes the barking Krogan to SLOW the advance of the Reapers on Palavan. And that's seen as a 'miracle.' Countless minor race worlds have been taken.

So tell me, why was losing Thessia not in the playbook? It wasn't going to be a prime Reaper target? Look, if i was Shepard, I'd be more ticked off about losing because I missed the obvious clue (throat cut=sword=phantoms at least=Cerberus nearby). But the dialogue is more about "Oh no! Not Thessia!" It goes back to the triumph of the promotion of Liara over Shepard's own priorities. 

It *should* be about Shepard screwing up and missing what's right there. But it's not. 

That said, it isn't a long scene, and while I want to spacebar my way through that dialogue, it isn't horrific in the sense the endings and the Kai Leng 'fights' are.

Yeah I'm STILL pised about this. Especially Liara. When she makes that comment I felt like slapping the hell out of her. Like i said already my Shepard would've said, "****, Earth and Palaven have been burning for weeks!".

Also the Asari ambassador pissed me off Blaming Shepard? Are you kidding? And don't get me started on Kai Leng and his Sword of POWER.

[ImaginaryMatter]

elrofrost wrote...

Yeah I'm STILL pised about this. Especially Liara. When she makes that comment I felt like slapping the hell out of her. Like i said already my Shepard would've said, "****, Earth and Palaven have been burning for weeks!".

Also the Asari ambassador pissed me off Blaming Shepard? Are you kidding? And don't get me started on Kai Leng and his Sword of POWER.

Or lack of Sword when he sticks it in the ground to get serious.

[txgoldrush]

RangerSG wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

congokong wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@txgoldrush:
Read my mission-by-mission review, there I have explained things in detail and have acknowledged the things that work while criticizing those that don't within the scenes mentioned. At this time, I can't be bothered to go into the details again.

Only one thing: On Thessia, Shepard acts as if Thessia could've been saved if he had acted differently. That's a load of crap that makes no sense at all. It is forced drama.

No, I saw it...sorry, but you are trying to criticize ME3 because it isn't what you want it to be, not because of what it is. Most of you criticizing many aspects of the game simply do not see why Bioware made the choices they did.

"I should've known" that Cerberus was there? "Not good enough"? What crazy logic is that?

The logic is, if you see scientists with their throats slit, you keep your guard up. Shepard should have taken it with him instead of trying to talk with it in the temple.

To a point, only towards ending the war much sooner. Even the scene with the asari councilor, its more about Shepard not succeeding than about saving Thessia.

Nevermind that really Shepard does NOT brood for long. The case is being way overstated here.

I'd agree with you, except  Shepard then tells Anderson, "Losing Thessia wasn't in the playbook." 

Really? The Asari did less to prepare for war than perhaps any Council species. The Asari are repeatedly said to be weak in frontal attacks, which is the 'only' way the Reapers come at you. And the Reapers have steamrolled the 2 largest Navies in the galaxy (Turian and Human) already. Earth and Palavan are burning, it takes the barking Krogan to SLOW the advance of the Reapers on Palavan. And that's seen as a 'miracle.' Countless minor race worlds have been taken.

So tell me, why was losing Thessia not in the playbook? It wasn't going to be a prime Reaper target? Look, if i was Shepard, I'd be more ticked off about losing because I missed the obvious clue (throat cut=sword=phantoms at least=Cerberus nearby). But the dialogue is more about "Oh no! Not Thessia!" It goes back to the triumph of the promotion of Liara over Shepard's own priorities. 

It *should* be about Shepard screwing up and missing what's right there. But it's not. 

That said, it isn't a long scene, and while I want to spacebar my way through that dialogue, it isn't horrific in the sense the endings and the Kai Leng 'fights' are.

It bothered me how they make Shepard blame themself for losing Thessia and talks to the asari councilor like they did something really stupid. I'd be angry at the asari for hiding a prothean artifact considering the laws against doing such. Didn't the asari make those rules? It's even worse if Tevos is still alive because she has been a hindrance to the war effort since the beginning and should really kill herself considering her race is being harvested because of her stupidity. First her inaction against Saren, then denying the reaper threat in ME2, then refusing to support the crucible project in ME3, then refusing to attend the war summit, and then revealing that the asari had a prothean artifact all along. And yet Shepard blames themself?!!

You did not get it.

Shepard blames himself because he failed to look for signs of ambush (the dead scientists not killed by Reapers), to focused on the Catalyst.

Yes, he failed and he blames himself.

He failed, and blames himself. But not for the reason he actually failed. Nor do I really see why Shepard should be be more upset that Thessia fell than he was for Palavan or Earth. Yet Thessia gets a bigger "Woe is me!" than either of those. And he doesn't mention the reason he screwed up.

And it wasn't an ambush. The place was crawling with enemies. The real issue is why did Shepard feel the need to chat with Vendetta there, instead of someplace secure...like the Normandy's War Room. No, let's have a discussion that we've no idea how long will last with Reapers and something that cuts throats (Hmm, who could that be?) wandering around. Yeah, they're just going to politely wait until you get done.

So yeah, I got it. The scene's a mess because Shepard is made to feel guilty for something he could do nothing about, while ignoring the thing that he OUGHT to have seen.

No, he blames himself for Cerberus beating him to the punch, especially if he is paragon. It occurs in the conference room where you talk with the crew after Liara tells you that no one could have predicted Cerberus to reach Thessia first. Shepards response:  "Its my job to be prepared, no matter what".

It was an ambush, Kai Leng killed the scientists, left and waited for Shepard to recover Vendetta, than he struck. And if Shepard was paying attention, he would not have left his guard down, but he was so focused on the Catalyst that he did not pay much attention to the clue that Kai Leng left.

As for Thessia being "lost"...who is to say the battle doesn't continue if Shepard did get the data, that hope of saving Thessia would remain? Who is to say that Thessia would not be saved days later? But by not getting the data, th eplanet is surely lost.

And going into the mission, as well as the mission itself...it was get the data to save the planet.

People should spend more time looking at the narrative and the actual dialogue before criticizing.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 13 février 2014 - 07:08 .

[DeinonSlayer]

No, tdx, even renegade!shep whines that "Thessia fell, and That's On Me!"

This is potentially the same Shepard who personally exterminated three species so far in the narrative without batting an eye, yet the Asari (s)he's compelled to gnash his teeth over - the only in-game genocide Shepard isn't personally responsible for.

I'd have preferred the option to chew out Tevos myself - we can vent at Liara in the temple about what her government did, but she isn't the one who needs to hear it.

Thessia was lost long before the Normandy arrived. Saving the planet is so far outside the scope of Shepard's mission there it isn't even funny.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 13 février 2014 - 07:17 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

No, tdx, even renegade!shep whines that "Thessia fell, and That's On Me!"

This is potentially the same Shepard who personally exterminated three species so far in the narrative without batting an eye, yet the Asari (s)he's compelled to gnash his teeth over - the only in-game genocide Shepard isn't personally responsible for.

I'd have preferred the option to chew out Tevos myself - we can vent at Liara in the temple about what her government did, but she isn't the one who needs to hear it.

Thessia was lost long before the Normandy arrived. Saving the planet is so far outside the scope of Shepard's mission there it isn't even funny.

Bad writing theory. 

[txgoldrush]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

No, tdx, even renegade!shep whines that "Thessia fell, and That's On Me!"

This is potentially the same Shepard who personally exterminated three species so far in the narrative without batting an eye, yet the Asari (s)he's compelled to gnash his teeth over - the only in-game genocide Shepard isn't personally responsible for.

I'd have preferred the option to chew out Tevos myself - we can vent at Liara in the temple about what her government did, but she isn't the one who needs to hear it.

Thessia was lost long before the Normandy arrived. Saving the planet is so far outside the scope of Shepard's mission there it isn't even funny.

With the Catalyst and the Crucible, they definitely could save the planet, or have a chance to. Sure, it would be overrun and be like Earth for a short time....but they don't lose hope in saving the planet.

With the Catalyst data gone however, they give up on the planet. That's the difference.

And really, they save the planet anyway in the end.

[txgoldrush]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

No, tdx, even renegade!shep whines that "Thessia fell, and That's On Me!"

This is potentially the same Shepard who personally exterminated three species so far in the narrative without batting an eye, yet the Asari (s)he's compelled to gnash his teeth over - the only in-game genocide Shepard isn't personally responsible for.

I'd have preferred the option to chew out Tevos myself - we can vent at Liara in the temple about what her government did, but she isn't the one who needs to hear it.

Thessia was lost long before the Normandy arrived. Saving the planet is so far outside the scope of Shepard's mission there it isn't even funny.

Bad writing theory. 

How about the "critics don't pay attention" theory?