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[themikefest]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

themikefest wrote...

Believe what you want. The asari messed up and you're just blinded by your obsession with the asari that you can't see it so its understandable you'd misrepresent it to make them look good.

Asari leadership messed up. I don't think the blueberries should be condemned just because they have crappy leaders, every other race in the galaxy has the same incompetent people at the helm.

Other homeworlds may have crappy leaders, but how many of them were keeping a beacon a secret?

[ImaginaryMatter]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Why didn't Ash or Kaidan say .... "Hey, Shepard, there was this big ship, and these bugs. What happened?"

Shepard: "The Collectors attacked. We managed to save half of the colony and drove the Collectors back onto that ship. Ash, I'm glad you made it. It's been empty on my ship without you. I could really use you on the team."

Ash: "Thanks for saving me, and the colony. But Cerberus? You're kidding me? You're with Cerberus? After everything we've been through? We thought you were dead."

Shepard: "It's a long story. I was dead. I'm missing two years. Cerberus somehow got hold of my body and brought me back to life. Honestly, I don't like working with them, but the Council blew me off about the Collectors and the Reapers. I'm still a Spectre. So I'm using Cerberus resources to stop the Collectors from abducting any more colonies. Dr. Chakwas and Joker are on the ship. You can talk to them if you don't believe me. And you remember Garrus (if Garrus is on Horizon).

Garrus: Shepard's telling the truth, Ashley, and I don't like Cerberus anymore than you do.

Shepard: Admiral Hackett didn't have any objections either, and Anderson didn't order me back to the Alliance. Talk to Anderson if you don't believe me.

Ash: It's okay with them? I just can't...

Shepard: You'll just have to make up your mind to either trust me or not.

Ash (sighs): Okay, Shepard, I'll trust your instincts, but I can't go aboard a Cerberus vessel. They're considered terrorists. Good luck on your mission. Get it done and get away from them as soon as you can, okay? You can't trust Cerberus.

Something like this would have been much better. I also find it weird that the scene doesn't change at all with Garrus present.

[Barquiel]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Something like this would have been much better. I also find it weird that the scene doesn't change at all with Garrus present.

I don't think the problem of squadmates and old friends not recognizing each other is just in the Horizon scene. It's the same on Illium with Liara, Tali and Garrus. I don't believe Anderson or Wrex say anything about Garrus and Tali either.

That's something they did much better in ME3.

Modifié par Barquiel, 13 février 2014 - 10:53 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

themikefest wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Asari leadership messed up. I don't think the blueberries should be condemned just because they have crappy leaders, every other race in the galaxy has the same incompetent people at the helm.

Other homeworlds may have crappy leaders, but how many of them were keeping a beacon a secret?

None, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm just saying the Asari shouldn't be blamed for something that was kept a very strict secret among the highest ranking people on the planet.

As an aside, I don't find the Asari government's crime worse than anything the Alliance or Shepard did which had intel and resources to investigate the Collector Base if it was kept intact but just sat on their hands instead.

[themikefest]

Barquiel wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Something like this would have been much better. I also find it weird that the scene doesn't change at all with Garrus present.

I don't think the problem of squadmates and old friends not recognizing each other is just in the Horizon scene. It's the same on Illium with Liara, Tali and Garrus. I don't believe Anderson or Wrex say anything about Garrus and Tali either.

No they don't. I'm surprised that no one even says hello to each other.

[themikefest]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

themikefest wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Asari leadership messed up. I don't think the blueberries should be condemned just because they have crappy leaders, every other race in the galaxy has the same incompetent people at the helm.

Other homeworlds may have crappy leaders, but how many of them were keeping a beacon a secret?

None, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm just saying the Asari shouldn't be blamed for something that was kept a very strict secret among the highest ranking people on the planet.

As an aside, I don't find the Asari government's crime worse than anything the Alliance or Shepard did which had intel and resources to investigate the Collector Base if it was kept intact but just sat on their hands instead.

The hardest part is determining how many knew about the beacon

What intel and resources did the Alliance have to investigate the Collector base?

[ImaginaryMatter]

themikefest wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I don't think the problem of squadmates and old friends not recognizing each other is just in the Horizon scene. It's the same on Illium with Liara, Tali and Garrus. I don't believe Anderson or Wrex say anything about Garrus and Tali either.

No they don't. I'm surprised that no one even says hello to each other.

I found it odd as well. Despite how much I love ME2 I always found a lot of these transitions from ME1 very lazy. Like ME1 squadmates don't talk to each other (I guess they weren't really friends).

The Council which at the end of ME1 finally seems ready to be helpful dismisses that claim. Even if they didn't believe Sovereign to be a Reaper you think they would have geared up the 'ole war machine to take out the AI bogeyman that attacked the heart of Citadel space.

Every one seems to get kind of memory swiped when it comes to Cerberus. The game really tries hard to forget that whole side quest line in ME1 ever happened.

[ImaginaryMatter]

starlitegirlx wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

As an aside, I don't find the Asari government's crime worse than anything the Alliance or Shepard did which had intel and resources to investigate the Collector Base if it was kept intact but just sat on their hands instead.

There was nothing left from the collector base when you blew it up. The Alliance had nothing to do with it anyway. That was something Tim had. He went there and got what he could. If you gave it to Tim then yes, that is a valid point though shepard wanted it for stopping the reapers not securing human dominance. Stopping the reapers benefitted everyone.

I just found it weird that it never came up. The Collector Base presents the best oppurtunity to prepare for the Reapers, there's most likely advanced tech; information on Reaper weapons, armor, shields; intelligence about their motives, etc. At the very least you think Shepard would tell the Alliance to go there so TIM wasn't fiddling around with it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

starlitegirlx wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

I found it odd as well. Despite how much I love ME2 I always found a lot of these transitions from ME1 very lazy. Like ME1 squadmates don't talk to each other (I guess they weren't really friends).

The Council which at the end of ME1 finally seems ready to be helpful dismisses that claim. Even if they didn't believe Sovereign to be a Reaper you think they would have geared up the 'ole war machine to take out the AI bogeyman that attacked the heart of Citadel space.

Every one seems to get kind of memory swiped when it comes to Cerberus. The game really tries hard to forget that whole side quest line in ME1 ever happened.

Bad writing and contrivances. I think they did that to actively push the logic that shepard had to work with Illusive Man and Cerberus because I think anyone who played ME1 and got cerberus side missions was probably a bit like WTH? So this was just terrible writing to push you more into the cerberus situation which my ME3 really was just ridiculous and annoying.

Cerberus I think was the biggest mistake the series made. So many problems stem from these guys.

The thing is I think a few tweaks could have made them work a little better in ME2 (like 15% maybe?). I always imagined that replacing Cerberus's roll in the plot with that of the Shadow Broker (who would be TIM) would have fixed a lot of the problems (ME2 Cerberus is apparently a shadowy research/intelligence conglomerate, which is basically the same thing as the Shadow Broker). It would have avoided that whole Kohaku, Akuze, generic villain baggage. And Shepard at worst is on relatively neutral terms with the Shadow Broker, who also has the benefit of being a character who has been heard about, rather than some complete unkown.

Or have the Cerberus revelation come later in the story after seeing a 'brighter' side to the group.

[von uber]

The Asari didn't know vendetta was in the artefact; tevos admits herself she only just found out about it. It's only because we know it's there that we blame them. It could have just been another Eden Prime beacon.

Anyway, Bioware had to think of a way to wrap up the catalyst thing. And having the Asari shown to be basically an uplifted species gives them more flavour i think.

[ImaginaryMatter]

themikefest wrote...

The hardest part is determining how many knew about the beacon

What intel and resources did the Alliance have to investigate the Collector base?

They had Shepard, EDI and the Normandy, several fleets, and individuals capable of building something like the Crucible. I'm sure they could have sent a brigade over with a whole bunch of researchers, kick out pre-lol-Reaper-upgrades Cerberus, and get to work. I mean Cerberus was able to do it with less people and resources, there's no reason why the Alliance shouldn't be able to do the same.

[von uber]

The worst bit of writing is the complete disregard of the evidence of the Reaper existence and invasion threat from ME1 onwards.
But then we wouldn't have a game.

[von uber]

If Shepard can record the Daltrasses offer of sabotaging the genophage she could record Harbinger or Saren. That's a complete in-universe failure.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Worse than that.... How did Cerberus get through the Omega 4 relay without the Reaper IFF?

This meant that one of three things are true:

1) Shepard gave The Illusive Man the Reaper IFF. However, we know this not to be true because the Normandy still had it.

2) The Illusive Man already had a Reaper IFF.

3) The Reaper IFF was software, and the crew on board the derelict Reaper sent a copy of it to The Illusive Man rendering the situation case 2.

Shepard picked up the hardware copy just for "reasons" and to meet Legion. The Illusive Man had no interest in keeping Shepard alive at this point or was using these missions as "training missions" for the team. The derelict reaper mission thus was contrived.

Even if you kept the Collector Base, the Normandy had the only Reaper IFF, so how did The Illusive Man get through the Omega 4 relay? Did the Alliance give him the IFF? No. This again gives us cases 2 or 3.

The plot had as many holes as Swiss Cheese.

[DeinonSlayer]

@Julia
Well, in fairness regarding the IFF, I always found TIM's email after you pick it up a bit suspicious. How, without previous knowledge of its workings, could he already have protocols written to integrate it into the Normandy's systems?

We're told he wrote whatever-it-was the fake Turian transmissions in ME2 and, IIRC, a good bit of EDI's code. Gotta wonder if the guy is writing computer code every spare minute he isn't drinking, smoking, or screwing Asari matriarchs.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 14 février 2014 - 12:47 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Julia
Well, in fairness regarding the IFF, I always found TIM's email after you pick it up a bit suspicious. How, without previous knowledge of its workings, could he already have protocols written to integrate it into the Normandy's systems?

We're told he wrote whatever-it-was the fake Turian transmissions in ME2 and, IIRC, a good bit of EDI's code. Gotta wonder if the guy is writing computer code every spare minute he isn't drinking, smoking, or screwing Asari matriarchs.

It moves to the realm of an ass pull where the writer pulls the mechanism out of his posterior. This is very interesting. So for anything to make any sense, Occam's Razor moves it to Case 3.

This makes the derelict reaper mission a "training mission" and a reason to meet Legion only. Recovery of the IFF was an excuse. 

The Illusive Man could simply have transmitted the IFF Code and Protocols to EDI and saved Shepard and Co. the time and risk of the mission. We know he didn't care about the scientists on board the Reaper. Cerberus teams are always expendible. 

[von uber]

How many crew members did edi kill by spacing the collecters?