Aller au contenu

Photo

What do you think is the most poorly written scene in the ME series?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
1765 réponses à ce sujet

#601
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

Guest_starlitegirlx_*
  • Guests

DeinonSlayer wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Looking at individual lines, Shotgun Julia already covered the "Asari can mate with each other?" one. I guess a close second is at the end of Freedom's Progress in ME2.

Shepard: *looking at footage of what are obviously aliens* "What's a Collector? Is that some kind of alien?"

Miranda: "No, Shepard, Collectors are cosplaying humans. Answer the ad on space-Craigslist and they'll issue you your outfit."


If I remember correctly the, "the Asari can mate with each other," line is entirely optionaly and thus should not be included; the same is with the Collector line.

A fact for which I am very grateful. The only time I used those lines was when roleplaying a particularly dimwitted Shepard.


The thing here which is why I won't think of these as bad is that it's exposition and exposition is needed to explain these things to the player. The average player is not going to learn from reading codexes. I never read the codex unless I'm specifically curious about something like how long do turians live. I prefer to have it in the dialogue wheel for the first game or two then after that, it's an option I never take because I know. I don't really think of it as a dimwitted shepard but one who has not been exposed to all the races or perhaps all the details about the races. Kind of like how liara in ME1 goes on about how people don't understand her race and believe rumors. I think of it as kind of rare that someone would walk up to another species and ask them about their mating rituals or how long they live, etc. In fact, I CANNOT imagine such a thing happening unless you know the person well enough to ask inquisitively as in the case with Liara and Wrex and Thane. Shepard is a soldier and not really sitting in some library studying all the details about the different races. Often shepard is battling them or someone else. So to me, all of this is done well enough that it can be overlooked though it probably in some places could be done a little better so to not come off like they are pandering to complete idiots. But overall, it's for the benefit of us, those of us that don't read things. And exposition, as a rule, is one of the most challenging things to write. It realy is. You have to do it in a way that still holds the audiece while not treating them like idiots and it has to fit in smoothly rather than just being dumped on you. If you have ever written anything where exposition was required, and if you are any good at writing, you KNOW what a nightmare it can present, especially for something that is totally Alien (no pun intended) as with sci fi and fantasy genres where it's a new universe with new species and new laws or mechanics.

So I can forgive a lot regarding all of the exposition as there really is no way to get around it. Yes, they could have made some of shepard's questions seem like they came from a smarter individual, but I think they were more focused on the exposition rather than how shepard asked the question which is also a common issue with exposition given through questions. People forget to keep the questions asked by the character in line with what you might expect from that character at least intellectually or perhaps even with some political correctness about it.

Of course, this is just my 2 cents on the matter. Exposition is a ****.

#602
Invisible Man

Invisible Man
  • Members
  • 1 075 messages

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The Keepers were a silly mechanism in the first place. Why have a Keeper run someplace and push a button? Can't the thing that tells the Keeper to push the button just push the button itself?


Well, not if it was a Reaper. At least not without giving its intent away and complicating matters. It's hard to imagine every race that ever walked the Citadel being so intellectually uncurious as to never study the Keepers, though.


So Sovereign can signal the keepers but can't signal the relay itself? Why put the keepers in the middle?

Anyway, the larger point is that prothean scientists get to the Citadel, sabotage stuff, and the Relay doesn't open. I don't see how ME3 actually changes anything about this  except that some of Vigil's guesswork wasn't quite accurate.

The only thing i can think of is that the Citadel relay has to be completely powered down - not just kinnect powered down in order to not having the younger races discover it.. still a bit wierd.

But what about this - The Protheons build the conduit which means they made the relay on Ilos, Then traveled to the Citadel by spacecraft to place the smaller relay, Then traveld back to Ilos to enter the Ilos relay only to pop up right next to the Citadel small relay.. so why didn't they just do what they had to do the first time they were at the Citadel. :)


I just figured they created the conduit before the reaper invasion. and they didn't have a reason to use it till they did their research into the keepers, and were able to corrupt their "programing" or whatever. 

#603
MegaIllusiveMan

MegaIllusiveMan
  • Members
  • 4 440 messages

congokong wrote...

In ME1 Shepard does have a lot of ignorance about the other races as if he/she was just defrosted. It's obviously done to educate new gamers but it makes Shepard come across as an idiot.

Who were the protheans?
Why are these beacons so important?
Why do elcor describe what they're about to say?
Why do you refer to yourself as "this one" and "it", hanar?
What do you know about the geth?
What's a quarian pilgrimage?
Asari can mate with anyone?
Asari can mate with each other?
What were the rachni wars?
What were the krogan rebellions?
What's the genophage?
What's the genophage again, Kirahee?


Well, maybe because those lines weren't for Shepard him/herself, but for the players, who needed knowledge on a vast galaxy and adventure that is just beggining

Also, the "What's the Genophage Again, Kirrahe", I kinda agree with it, because IIRC, Kirrahe is the only Salarian you can ask what was the Genophage. Then, I think that Shepard is asking from his personal experience, not 'cause he has Alzheimer...

#604
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

Guest_starlitegirlx_*
  • Guests

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
If I remember correctly the, "the Asari can mate with each other," line is entirely optionaly and thus should not be included; the same is with the Collector line.


Being optional doesn't matter. It's a line in the game.


What I mean is that it's their in case people are actually confused about Asari reproduction. I'm sure a select number of people found Asari reproduction confusing.


Yes, exactly. To players who understand it, then it seems like a dumb question, but the reality is that we are dealing with exposition and details of an alien race and people still might not understand some of it. And like I said, exposition that comes out during questions tends to leave the questioner looking dumb or bordering on rude since that is not the focus for the writer. It takes a really great writer to deliver both ends of that conversation in a manner that fits the character. Shepard here is made to be more naive and even lacking some political correctness as seen with handling the genophage topic. That could have been handled so much better and I always hate that conversation. The response shepard has minimizes the genophage in a way I cannot imagine anyone with any kind of sensitivity would do even if you paragon it. The one with Liara could have been more along the lines of 'So asari mating with each other isn't preferred?" That actually would have been a great set up for the morinth Samara mission had they known about it in advance. It could have really expanded on why pure bloods are looked down upon while also answering the core of the question and making shepard look smarter becuase it does from human perspective seem a bit odd that the preference would be to mate with other species since that could create complications. It was handled lazily or perhaps for a dumber audience, which is a bit of what ME1 is. How often do we have the same information handed to us in a multitude of ways? But we go with it because it's very fascinating - all this indoctrination stuff...

#605
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

Guest_starlitegirlx_*
  • Guests

congokong wrote...

In ME1 Shepard does have a lot of ignorance about the other races as if he/she was just defrosted. It's obviously done to educate new gamers but it makes Shepard come across as an idiot.

Who were the protheans?
Why are these beacons so important?
Why do elcor describe what they're about to say?
Why do you refer to yourself as "this one" and "it", hanar?
What do you know about the geth?
What's a quarian pilgrimage?
Asari can mate with anyone?
Asari can mate with each other?
What were the rachni wars?
What were the krogan rebellions?
What's the genophage?
What's the genophage again, Kirahee?


Shepard's questions could and should have been asked in a more intelligent way. There is no arguing with that. If they had been presented in a way that gave some information while still asking a question it would have made shepard look a bit more enlightened and rather inquisitive, open minded and wanting to learn more. So... intelligent.

Instead of 'who were the protheans?' it could have been 'Haven't the protheans been extinct for thousands of years?"
Instead of '"why are the becons so important?' it could have been, 'I know we gained a lot of information from the beacon on mars, but .... (have the question get more specific and detailed).
Instead of 'Asari can mate with each other'and 'asari can mate with anyone' set it up so that the question is 'Why do Asari prefer to mate with other species?' or something like that which says they can mate with each other but answers why the choose not to and perhaps even the reason why pure blood is a bad thing.

It wouldn't have taken a lot of effort, but again, they seemed to be pandering to idiots.

#606
von uber

von uber
  • Members
  • 5 526 messages

Dr_Extrem wrote...


maybe the flood gate was built at the river mouth ...

this would even make sense, it would still be cheaper to build one giant flood gate, than to reenforce hundrets of kilometres of dams.


BUT .. you made me think about vancouver .. its a coastal city. to all those bsn-users from vancouver? .. did you notice an increased sea-level?


Nope, the walls along the Thames would need to be raised also or most of the city centre is gone. Basically it would be a massive lined channel. Certainly not how it's shown.

#607
Dr_Extrem

Dr_Extrem
  • Members
  • 4 092 messages

von uber wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...


maybe the flood gate was built at the river mouth ...

this would even make sense, it would still be cheaper to build one giant flood gate, than to reenforce hundrets of kilometres of dams.


BUT .. you made me think about vancouver .. its a coastal city. to all those bsn-users from vancouver? .. did you notice an increased sea-level?


Nope, the walls along the Thames would need to be raised also or most of the city centre is gone. Basically it would be a massive lined channel. Certainly not how it's shown.


i am afraid, you got me wrong ... sorry if i was not specific enough.


it would be cheaper to build a flood door at the point, where the thames meets the north sea and not "in the middle of the country". if they would do it this way, you could not see any signs anything in london. london is in fact inland and its only connection to the sea is the river thames.

but you are still right ... they should have shown/told us at least, how they managed to keep the water out of the most iconic cities.

#608
sH0tgUn jUliA

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 812 messages
I'm really surprised they didn't have Shepard ask Liara in ME1:

"Liara, can you make your head tentacles move?"

Liara: "Look it up on the extranet."

Shepard: "I don't know how to use the terminal in my quarters."

Liara: "Read the ****ing manual."

Shepard: "They didn't give me a manual. Let's bang, okay?"

#609
Dr_Extrem

Dr_Extrem
  • Members
  • 4 092 messages

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I'm really surprised they didn't have Shepard ask Liara in ME1:

"Liara, can you make your head tentacles move?"

Liara: "Look it up on the extranet."

Shepard: "I don't know how to use the terminal in my quarters."

Liara: "Read the ****ing manual."

Shepard: "They didn't give me a manual. Let's bang, okay?"



you get the manual after you get the normandy .. i just found it .. .^^ (replying me1 right now)

but it appears shepard can not read ort understand it.


the autors were very good in making shepard look like an uneducated idiot. they could have written those part in a way, that would not make shepard look like a moron while giving us the propper information.


the wrex dialogue i.e.

shepard: wrex i am glad we were able to settle a truce with the turians, before they would have nuked us.
wrex: at least they did not sterilise you all.
shepard: is the genophage really that bad? we were told, that it was designed only to adjust your birthrate?
wrex: i dont know what they tell you at school but it is very bad ... bla bla bla ...

something like this would have been far better. we get all the information and tshepard does not look like a dumb grunt, who skipped elementary school. (this is really painfull, if you have a spacer background (does the alliance not have good educational programs for their members offsprings?).

#610
von uber

von uber
  • Members
  • 5 526 messages

Dr_Extrem wrote...


i am afraid, you got me wrong ... sorry if i was not specific enough.


it would be cheaper to build a flood door at the point, where the thames meets the north sea and not "in the middle of the country". if they would do it this way, you could not see any signs anything in london. london is in fact inland and its only connection to the sea is the river thames.

but you are still right ... they should have shown/told us at least, how they managed to keep the water out of the most iconic cities.


No the barrier would work (and currently does) to hold back the tide; the heightened walls would be required to contain the river flow that would not be able to discharge (as they are at present).
Just to clarify, I live there and my job is a civil engineer specialising in flooding.. :P

#611
Reorte

Reorte
  • Members
  • 6 601 messages

starlitegirlx wrote...

Shepard's questions could and should have been asked in a more intelligent way. There is no arguing with that. If they had been presented in a way that gave some information while still asking a question it would have made shepard look a bit more enlightened and rather inquisitive, open minded and wanting to learn more.

That's the necessary difference to bludgeoning exposition in in a way that makes everyone concerned look like morons and getting information across to the player without breaking anything. Badly-done exposition is still bad, so qualifies for "poorly written scene."

#612
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

Guest_starlitegirlx_*
  • Guests

Reorte wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

Shepard's questions could and should have been asked in a more intelligent way. There is no arguing with that. If they had been presented in a way that gave some information while still asking a question it would have made shepard look a bit more enlightened and rather inquisitive, open minded and wanting to learn more.

That's the necessary difference to bludgeoning exposition in in a way that makes everyone concerned look like morons and getting information across to the player without breaking anything. Badly-done exposition is still bad, so qualifies for "poorly written scene."


Yes, it does qualify. I guess I forgive it because damn, ME3 had some much worse writing and most people don't recognize that the exposition was terrible. It's a game made mostly for kids- teens. They aren't really thinking about good or great writing.

#613
Lee T

Lee T
  • Members
  • 1 326 messages
There are many but the worse for me would be Grunt having nothing to say to Solus' revelations if you bring him along the genophage mission in ME2.

#614
congokong

congokong
  • Members
  • 2 014 messages

Lee T wrote...

There are many but the worse for me would be Grunt having nothing to say to Solus' revelations if you bring him along the genophage mission in ME2.


There should have been an option where if you're about to destroy Maelon's data Grunt pulls out his shotgun and says "This data can't be destroyed. I won't allow it." Then you have the option to talk him down (not requiring persuasion if you did his loyalty mission) or shoot him just like Wrex in ME1. lol

Mordin: "Shepard, what happened?"
Shepard: "He just proved why this data needs to be completely destroyed."
Mordin: "Hmmm. Krogan faced between potential cure for genophage and allegiance to battlemaster. Problematic."

#615
grey_wind

grey_wind
  • Members
  • 3 304 messages

congokong wrote...

Lee T wrote...

There are many but the worse for me would be Grunt having nothing to say to Solus' revelations if you bring him along the genophage mission in ME2.


There should have been an option where if you're about to destroy Maelon's data Grunt pulls out his shotgun and says "This data can't be destroyed. I won't allow it." Then you have the option to talk him down (not requiring persuasion if you did his loyalty mission) or shoot him just like Wrex in ME1. lol

Mordin: "Shepard, what happened?"
Shepard: "He just proved why this data needs to be completely destroyed."
Mordin: "Hmmm. Krogan faced between potential cure for genophage and allegiance to battlemaster. Problematic."

Grunt caring about the data or Mordin's "revelations" about it would be inconsistent. Okeer was fully aware that the Genophage was not a sterility plague, and likewise, Grunt would know of its true nature as a population control measure. He was built specifically to fulfill the sole goal of overcoming the Genophage without curing it; he shouldn't give a rat's arse over what happens with Maelon's data.

#616
congokong

congokong
  • Members
  • 2 014 messages

grey_wind wrote...

congokong wrote...

Lee T wrote...

There are many but the worse for me would be Grunt having nothing to say to Solus' revelations if you bring him along the genophage mission in ME2.


There should have been an option where if you're about to destroy Maelon's data Grunt pulls out his shotgun and says "This data can't be destroyed. I won't allow it." Then you have the option to talk him down (not requiring persuasion if you did his loyalty mission) or shoot him just like Wrex in ME1. lol

Mordin: "Shepard, what happened?"
Shepard: "He just proved why this data needs to be completely destroyed."
Mordin: "Hmmm. Krogan faced between potential cure for genophage and allegiance to battlemaster. Problematic."

Grunt caring about the data or Mordin's "revelations" about it would be inconsistent. Okeer was fully aware that the Genophage was not a sterility plague, and likewise, Grunt would know of its true nature as a population control measure. He was built specifically to fulfill the sole goal of overcoming the Genophage without curing it; he shouldn't give a rat's arse over what happens with Maelon's data.


I don't think any krogan is 100% ok with the genophage but you're apparently oblivious to when people are joking around. Hint: "lol" implies joking.

#617
grey_wind

grey_wind
  • Members
  • 3 304 messages

congokong wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

congokong wrote...

Lee T wrote...

There are many but the worse for me would be Grunt having nothing to say to Solus' revelations if you bring him along the genophage mission in ME2.


There should have been an option where if you're about to destroy Maelon's data Grunt pulls out his shotgun and says "This data can't be destroyed. I won't allow it." Then you have the option to talk him down (not requiring persuasion if you did his loyalty mission) or shoot him just like Wrex in ME1. lol

Mordin: "Shepard, what happened?"
Shepard: "He just proved why this data needs to be completely destroyed."
Mordin: "Hmmm. Krogan faced between potential cure for genophage and allegiance to battlemaster. Problematic."

Grunt caring about the data or Mordin's "revelations" about it would be inconsistent. Okeer was fully aware that the Genophage was not a sterility plague, and likewise, Grunt would know of its true nature as a population control measure. He was built specifically to fulfill the sole goal of overcoming the Genophage without curing it; he shouldn't give a rat's arse over what happens with Maelon's data.


I don't think any krogan is 100% ok with the genophage but you're apparently oblivious to when people are joking around. Hint: "lol" implies joking.

Sorry, it was unclear whether you were joking or whether you were implying another Wrex situation would be funny. Anyhow, the poster you quoted was being fully serious. and my reply was targeted more towards him/her than you. Sorry for any confusion.

#618
Ranger1337

Ranger1337
  • Members
  • 184 messages
When Victus and Wrex are arguing in the Normandy's War Room and Shepard defuses the situation, Wrex says something like "Shepard, you have a point bla bla" but he says it in such a bad and unfitting way that it makes me cringe.

Here: 

Skip to 1:18 

Modifié par Ranger1337, 17 février 2014 - 02:20 .


#619
Dr_Extrem

Dr_Extrem
  • Members
  • 4 092 messages

von uber wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...


i am afraid, you got me wrong ... sorry if i was not specific enough.


it would be cheaper to build a flood door at the point, where the thames meets the north sea and not "in the middle of the country". if they would do it this way, you could not see any signs anything in london. london is in fact inland and its only connection to the sea is the river thames.

but you are still right ... they should have shown/told us at least, how they managed to keep the water out of the most iconic cities.


No the barrier would work (and currently does) to hold back the tide; the heightened walls would be required to contain the river flow that would not be able to discharge (as they are at present).
Just to clarify, I live there and my job is a civil engineer specialising in flooding.. :P


damn .. i got trapped by a dam-specialist.

no seriously .. would the tidal range not be enough to get rid of the stowed water? ... or would 2 metres be it be too much? i live in bremen apr. 200 metres away from the weser and we already have the propper leeway to compensate the 2 metres. (i have to admit: it would get very close in the case of a storm tide.

i should visit london one day ...

#620
nokori3byo

nokori3byo
  • Members
  • 863 messages
The whole Omega DLC felt like a significant dip for me, writing-wise.

#621
ImaginaryMatter

ImaginaryMatter
  • Members
  • 4 163 messages

nokori3byo wrote...

The whole Omega DLC felt like a significant dip for me, writing-wise.


I found it's quality of writing to be pretty decent compared to the main game.

#622
Anacronian Stryx

Anacronian Stryx
  • Members
  • 3 133 messages

Invisible Man wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The Keepers were a silly mechanism in the first place. Why have a Keeper run someplace and push a button? Can't the thing that tells the Keeper to push the button just push the button itself?


Well, not if it was a Reaper. At least not without giving its intent away and complicating matters. It's hard to imagine every race that ever walked the Citadel being so intellectually uncurious as to never study the Keepers, though.


So Sovereign can signal the keepers but can't signal the relay itself? Why put the keepers in the middle?

Anyway, the larger point is that prothean scientists get to the Citadel, sabotage stuff, and the Relay doesn't open. I don't see how ME3 actually changes anything about this  except that some of Vigil's guesswork wasn't quite accurate.

The only thing i can think of is that the Citadel relay has to be completely powered down - not just kinnect powered down in order to not having the younger races discover it.. still a bit wierd.

But what about this - The Protheons build the conduit which means they made the relay on Ilos, Then traveled to the Citadel by spacecraft to place the smaller relay, Then traveld back to Ilos to enter the Ilos relay only to pop up right next to the Citadel small relay.. so why didn't they just do what they had to do the first time they were at the Citadel. :)


I just figured they created the conduit before the reaper invasion. and they didn't have a reason to use it till they did their research into the keepers, and were able to corrupt their "programing" or whatever. 


Wait so the super secret Ilos installation, That was so secret that no trace of it's existance was left on the Citadel ..built a relay right in the middle of the Citadel without anybody noticing it? :D

#623
durasteel

durasteel
  • Members
  • 2 007 messages

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Wait so the super secret Ilos installation, That was so secret that no trace of it's existance was left on the Citadel ..built a relay right in the middle of the Citadel without anybody noticing it? :D


More likely it was built on the Citadel with the intent of connecting somewhere else (other than Ilos) and after the reaper invasion, the Ilos team built their end of the conduit to connect to it.

#624
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 762 messages
I don't see how that solves anything. You've still got half of a secret project sitting in the middle of the Presidium.

#625
sH0tgUn jUliA

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 812 messages
The Conduit is Chekov's Gun.