1765 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Bob from Accounting wrote...

Am I to assume you're incapable of speaking on this topic without resorting this sort of thing? The only thing you're convincing me of is that your points are too weak to stand without it.

Is my representation of that yahg in any way innacurate? My point is that I'm not a fan of shallow villains. Here they gave us, quite literally, a demon that lets out a roar spraying spit out of its mouth, whips out a big gun and curses Liara the entire time you fight it.

I really see no problem at all with a single individual managing the Shadow Broker network.

I do. I believe it could have been handled differently. I'm guessing you don't primarily because you want Liara to be able to handle it all on her own, and this is all some indirect attack on her. That's not what I'm after here.

[Bob from Accounting]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

See, to me it seems the ME trilogy walked backwards in this area. Firefoghts got harder and harder to avoid, options were streamlined. In ME1, for example, it was entirely possible to get through Port Hanshan without a shot fired if you approached from the right angle. There were encounters like the corporate espionage with Manuel Vargas that gave you no less than six ways to handle the situation. As the trilogy progressed, we saw less of this. The investigative portions of Leviathan, as I said, were an interesting break.

It's entirely possible to write an intelligent RPG without reducing villains to moustache-twirling buffons (Illusive Man, Kai Leng).

We're discussing combat in video games. I fail to see what villains have to do with with this issue. You've convincing me more and more you're not really up to this sort of conversation .

Speaking of which, cherry picking examples is aborrent. I notice you convienantly forget to mention Samara and Thane's loyalty mission entirely in ME 2, both of which eschew combat altogether. You forget to mention that why it's possible to avoid combat on Noveria, I believe it requires siding with Anolais, which is clearly the most repulsive and sub-optimal path.

In any case, single missions in these games are really just not significant. Mandatory combat has been a strong focus of Mass Effect series since the beginning. So far as I can tell, the biggest difference is that ME 1 allowed combat to be bypassed with petty villains while ME 2 and ME 3 generally have Shepard just execute the person in a cutscene instead of bothering to open combat at all. Which, ironically, means that ME 2 and ME 3 indeed have less of a combat focus in such situations.

Modifié par Bob from Accounting, 20 février 2014 - 08:12 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Actually, you hand Opold's package to Anoleis without ever fighting the ERCS guards or even learning about his corruption. You never encounter Parasini - you report a crime, he gives you a garage pass. Like I said, you get through without a shot fired.

I admit I forgot the lack of combat in Samara's loyalty mission. Her recruitment mission, however, is a prime example of what I was referring to.

[Bob from Accounting]

This is an immensely weak example for an immensely weak argument. The first game offers a single mission where for the low low price ignoring a good chunk of dialogue and characters and passing up the opportunity to eliminate a corrupt executive, they can avoid 20 seconds of shooting. Therefore Mass Effect has been on a continual decline of alternative gameplay to simply shooting. Ignore the various minigames and non-shooting challenges introduced in later games not present in ME 1.

Sorry. Not even remotely close.

If you have any insights of how Lair of the Shadow could have been done differently, I'm listening.

[DeinonSlayer]

I've already pointed out two examples of how LotSB could have been done differently (reaper at the helm, multiple brokers). You blew them off. Fine, they're not your cup of tea. I think multiple brokers makes more sense given the scale of the network. You prefer one broker to justify Liara usurping the network on her own. I think a multi-broker network could have been usurped just as easily - even if only in part. She only needs those resources which will help with the Reaper war; the rest could be cut loose.

I prefer writing that doesn't involve shallow villians (like the Shadow Broker as presented in the DLC - a drooling monster with no real motives given for his collector alliance). I prefer writing that doesn't involve throwing mooks in my path for the sake of throwing mooks in my path (Cerberus throughout ME3). There will be combat - it's to be expected - but it doesn't have to be every five minutes to hold my interest. A strong story is what I'm looking for.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 février 2014 - 08:41 .

[wolfhowwl]

starlitegirlx wrote...

How about the galaxy's worst shadowbroker ever? She could barely get intel on the one mission she gives you. She doesn't have a clue about the beacon on thessia which if the shadowbroker had all the information they implied in the DLC, I would think that might have been in there. She doesn't think to get off the ship broker's ship before cerberus comes after her. Okay for the Yahg who had that huge crew but she was with one person and glyph. The only useful intel she gives you is a small group of mercs that comes through Barla Von and they aren't even worth that much. Glyph is much more useful than she is. You can use your intel to get upgrades. While the prothean expert seems to have forgotten all things prothean, sucks at her job, and it turns out traynor is far more on the ball and sussing out intel than Liara is. That is the worst writing EVER.

There is only so much intel content to go around and Bioware didn't want their new token lesbian, Traynor, to be another Kelly Chambers likely usurping a significant amount of it from their freshly minted Shadow Broker.

[wolfhowwl]

Wasn't there theorizing back in the day that the Shadow Broker was actually an AI?

[Bob from Accounting]

I think our conversation here is concluded. You're far too dependent on bringing up irrelevant and meaningless platitudes to support your 'points' to be an any interest to me. Clearly, I must look elsewhere in my search for insight.

[DeinonSlayer]

Fine by me. Your arrogance was getting tiresome anyway.

[wolfhowwl]

Did posting that make you feel...




Dare I say it...




Powerful?

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 20 février 2014 - 09:01 .

[Seboist]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@congokong
I thought it'd have been a nice twist if the "shadow broker" was actually Reaper.

Vigil: "Information is power, and they knew everything about us."

Barla Von: "Every day he trades secrets that could topple governments. Yet, somehow, he never disrupts the natural order. Everything manages to balance out. Nobody ends up with the advantage in the end... Nobody knows who he is. He could be any race, any gender. I have a theory that the Shadow Broker is actually a group of people. How else could they juggle so many contacts at the same time? How else could they keep all that information from getting crossed?"

Sovereign: "You evolve along the paths we desire."

Imagine breaking into the yahg's office, getting a good first-ever look at that big bastard, then just when you go to attack he seizes up, starts glowing a sickly yellow and bellows out "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."

Would be a nice idea if it wasn't for the fact that the Broker helped Shep and Co against Saren/Sovereign in ME1.

Speaking of such, I found the Broker's 180 in allegiance in ME2 to support the pitifully weak collectors to be weird.

Modifié par Seboist, 20 février 2014 - 09:06 .

[DeinonSlayer]

J. Reezy wrote...

Bob from Accounting wrote...

I think our conversation here is concluded. You're far too dependent on bringing up irrelevant and meaningless platitudes to support your 'points' to be an any interest to me. Clearly, I must look elsewhere in my search for insight.

The messiah?

Oh, David, where art thou.

*


Wait... how long ago did his last sock account get spiked?

[wolfhowwl]

Ban evasion isn't very heroic.

[DeinonSlayer]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Ban evasion isn't very heroic.

But it's certainly in-character.

[wolfhowwl]

Please don't report him. These forums have gotten incredibly boring without him to kick around.

DeinonSlayer wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Ban evasion isn't very heroic.

But it's certainly in-character.

Indeed.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 20 février 2014 - 09:17 .

[DeinonSlayer]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Please don't report him. These forums have gotten incredibly boring without him to kick around.

I'm not reporting anything. David doesn't need my help to get himself banned if past form is any example.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 février 2014 - 09:20 .

[Invisible Man]

I guess I should spend more time on the forums... I didn't even realize he was banned.

[TheChris92]

Bob from Accounting wrote...

I think our conversation here is concluded. You're far too dependent on bringing up irrelevant and meaningless platitudes to support your 'points' to be an any interest to me. Clearly, I must look elsewhere in my search for insight.

Didn't you fall out of a window?

[SporkFu]

I have to say that the conversation with the dying reaper on Rannoch always bugged me, specifically the line, "... in order to bring order to the chaos." Erg, it just bugs me. But the whole conversation could have been erased with little impact, imho. The reaper should have just died.

[RangerSG]

Zazzerka wrote...

themikefest wrote...

My question to Liara, when you first meet her on Mars, is why didn't she forward the data to Hackett when she realized it was somrething that could stop the reapers? She knew before the reapers invaded Earth by Hackett telling you to go to Mars that T'soni may of found something to stop the reapers.

Had she of done that, the Thessia mission would be different than what we got.

She didn't actually have the data at that point. Hence her request to Hackett for backup. Hence the "race to the archives."

C'mon, now.

Yeah, they did say this one. Hackett wanted another set of eyes with Prothean background to look at them before committing resources to it. Who better than the person who carries around the Prothean Code in their head?
Also to be fair, both Liara and Hackett probably thought they had more time. As Liara asked for this before the attack. So yeah, I can deal with this. Not so much how all her assets missed Cerberus forces infiltrating the place. But then, they somehow snuck mechs into the Citadel without all of CSec and its biometric scanners that filtered out amps in ME2 noticing anything too. 

Modifié par RangerSG, 20 février 2014 - 11:10 .

[von uber]

As far as I can tell broker activities in ME3 are related to supplying resources etc to the construction of the crucible (reports of shipments musterisuoly turning up). She also holds off placing new agents etc until the war is over (mentuiones smoething about a council relpacement).

But yes, largely wasted and I agree that a lot of the info was passd to Traynor to make her more relevant. Not that that is a problem, but then it creates the ridiculous situation of Traynor being more up to speed on certain things.
LotSB set up Liara as being a really interesting character (i.e. could have developed in a lot of ways) but they dropped the ball in ME3 (but then a lot of Liara stuff in ME3 was crap, especially romance - lotsb is definitely her finest part in the trilogy).