1765 réponses à ce sujet

[congokong]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

congokong wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

In ME2, it was Al-Jilani. Few people remember that Renegades could have a completely professional, intelligent, and measured conversation with her. She asked fair questions, and could be given fair answers and end with a good note. Admiral Hackett even compliments you on your composure, and Renegades can even get her on their side.

Al-Jilani is like one my "moral compasses". Heh. I like being nice to her. She's human centric, but I think less antagnostic than she's given credit for. Whatever her schtick is in each game, I tend to side with (ME1: Don't be a Council stooge/ ME2: Not much to say there, but her agenda seems a little more open about galactic cooperation/ ME3: Don't let the Council forget about Earth).

It's funny hearing how pleasant her interview is with Anderson in the Citadel DLC.

Any Shepard I play with a short temper slugs her every time, but she only debatably deserves a fist in ME3. She becomes blatantly insensitive and insulting.

ME3? I think that's where she least deserves it. I think she's just scared and anxious.

My disappointment in ME3 is that there's no appropriate Renegade dialogue response to her. Paragon is sympathetic, and works well for it, but I feel there was a big miss in not having a Renegade equivalent.

It could be rude. It could be harsh. But it could definitely be tough love and that hard boot that occassionally helps people get over their sorrows, and are inspiring in their own right.

So when she cries 'how could you let this happen,' you could have a good Renegade response of 'I told you all so, and you ignored my warnings,' mixed with 'I left Earth to gain Council support for Earth,' and pressing her to use her influence to pressure the Council to do more to support Humanity.

ME3 was very lacking in the dialogue department; especially funny 1-liners. In ME1 when you punch her it's "I've had enough of your snide insinuations." Then it's "disingenous assertions" in ME2 but "tabloid journalim" in ME3? It's strange that if you punch her you lose her as a war asset. What, does she just go home and drink and sob while the reapers harvest everything?

[Ryuji2]

A lot of responses covered what I was gonna say so I'll end up saying the Kai Leng "fight" on the Citadel when he fights Thane(if he's there). I mean really. WHO RUNS AND *JUMPS* INTO A SWORD STAB?! and you're telling me the galaxy's deadliest assassin(or so we've been told) missed every single shot from his pistol at nigh point-blank range? Doesn't matter if he had a lung disease, pretty sure that wouldn't impair his ability to shoot something right in front of him.

BioWare pls.

[Iakus]

congokong wrote...

Ash/Kaidan don't assume Shepard just joined up. They don't know what happened; if Shepard joined, was ressurrected, or was brought back but under Cerberus' control.

"You betrayed the Alliance, Anderson...you betrayed me.

Shepard sees Cerberus as bad possibly too but we can only role-play Shepard to a certain point. The game makes Shepard decide that working with Cerberus is the right thing to do because they brought Shepard back and are the only ones doing anything about the colonies. Would Ash/Kaidan do the same were they put in Shepard's position? We don't know but it's easy to understand their Horizon reaction from their short-sighted point of view.

Shepard can tell Garrus that needs someone he can trust watching his back.  He can tell Tali that he fully expects Cerberus to betray them at some point.  Bioware forced Shepard's dialogue to feed into the VS's already hilariously extreme assumptions.  

Why would Ashley need proof of the collectors? They were just there! And how do you figure Shepard has omnitool data on her? The seeker swarm counter measure is implied by the fact that Shepard saved the colony. Some of these ways to convince Ash would be things I wouldn't even consider saying. I'd have said pretty much what Shepard did. I'd explain my ressurection, point and say "You saw it yourself. The collectors are attacking human colonies and they're working with the reapers." The proof is right there in Ash/Kaidan's face but they don't trust Cerberus. Sadly, many people have a very limited view. It's realistic.

Tali expressly gives Shepard Veetor's omnitool data on the COllectors from Freedom's Progress if you don't hand him over to Cerberus.  

Handing over the countermeasure tech to the VS would have been a boon to defending other colonies, maybe show Shepard can still be trusted, maybe?

As to the VS, they don't have to trust Cerberus (my Shepard sure didn't) but they could trust Shepard, even if they couldn't join him.  Just as Garrus, Tali, Chakwas, and Joker, and even Liara did. 

[congokong]

iakus wrote...

congokong wrote...

Ash/Kaidan don't assume Shepard just joined up. They don't know what happened; if Shepard joined, was ressurrected, or was brought back but under Cerberus' control.

"You betrayed the Alliance, Anderson...you betrayed me.

Shepard sees Cerberus as bad possibly too but we can only role-play Shepard to a certain point. The game makes Shepard decide that working with Cerberus is the right thing to do because they brought Shepard back and are the only ones doing anything about the colonies. Would Ash/Kaidan do the same were they put in Shepard's position? We don't know but it's easy to understand their Horizon reaction from their short-sighted point of view.

Shepard can tell Garrus that needs someone he can trust watching his back.  He can tell Tali that he fully expects Cerberus to betray them at some point.  Bioware forced Shepard's dialogue to feed into the VS's already hilariously extreme assumptions.  

Why would Ashley need proof of the collectors? They were just there! And how do you figure Shepard has omnitool data on her? The seeker swarm counter measure is implied by the fact that Shepard saved the colony. Some of these ways to convince Ash would be things I wouldn't even consider saying. I'd have said pretty much what Shepard did. I'd explain my ressurection, point and say "You saw it yourself. The collectors are attacking human colonies and they're working with the reapers." The proof is right there in Ash/Kaidan's face but they don't trust Cerberus. Sadly, many people have a very limited view. It's realistic.

Tali expressly gives Shepard Veetor's omnitool data on the COllectors from Freedom's Progress if you don't hand him over to Cerberus.  

Handing over the countermeasure tech to the VS would have been a boon to defending other colonies, maybe show Shepard can still be trusted, maybe?

As to the VS, they don't have to trust Cerberus (my Shepard sure didn't) but they could trust Shepard, even if they couldn't join him.  Just as Garrus, Tali, Chakwas, and Joker, and even Liara did. 

The countermeasure could never be used on a whole colony.

Yes, the VS could trust Shepard but they don't. That's a personality trait. Not a plothole.

[congokong]

Ryuji2 wrote...

A lot of responses covered what I was gonna say so I'll end up saying the Kai Leng "fight" on the Citadel when he fights Thane(if he's there). I mean really. WHO RUNS AND *JUMPS* INTO A SWORD STAB?! and you're telling me the galaxy's deadliest assassin(or so we've been told) missed every single shot from his pistol at nigh point-blank range? Doesn't matter if he had a lung disease, pretty sure that wouldn't impair his ability to shoot something right in front of him.

BioWare pls.

I forgot that about that scene. It had a huge major plothole too in the fact that Shepard and the squad just sit back and watch as the terminally ill Thane fights Kai Leng.

[themikefest]

Would the conversation on Horizon been a little different between Shepard and Ashley/Kaidan had T'soni told them and others that Shepard's body was given to Cerberus?

[AlexMBrennan]

Shepard sees Cerberus as bad possibly too but we can only role-play Shepard to a certain point

Only to an extremely limited point - Shepard listens to TIM, and just accepts everything he says at face value; at no point does Shepard consider that TIM might be lying about the situation of his squadmates to manipulate him and, for example, bother to try calling them to see if this checks out.

IMHO Bioware should have just gone with the control chip idea to explain why Shepard didn't just shoot the people who killed his squad when they tried to abduct him (there's one shuttle off this station, and Shepard is obviously going to take it to return to the Alliance)

Yes, the VS could trust Shepard but they don't. That's a personality trait. Not a plothole.

The conversation plays out a bit like this:
VS: Why didn't you call?
Shepard: I was dead!
VS: But why didn't you call?

Which is pretty poor writing.

Would the conversation on Horizon been a little different between Shepard and Ashley/Kaidan had T'soni told them and others that Shepard's body was given to Cerberus?

I doubt it - VS is upset that Shepard did not take action while dead/in a coma, so how would knowing the details change things? Why Shepard is now back from the dead changes nothing about the fact that Shepard didn't call while dead.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 04 février 2014 - 09:01 .

[congokong]

themikefest wrote...

Would the conversation on Horizon been a little different between Shepard and Ashley/Kaidan had T'soni told them and others that Shepard's body was given to Cerberus?

Sure, but she didn't. It's not surprising. She felt horrible doing it. It wouldn't be an easy thing to bring up although Liara still should have told them.

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Yes, the VS could trust Shepard but they don't. That's a personality trait. Not a plothole.

The conversation plays out a bit like this:
VS: Why didn't you call?
Shepard: I was dead!
VS: But why didn't you call?

Which is pretty poor writing.
 

That's not how it goes.

Modifié par congokong, 04 février 2014 - 08:59 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

congokong wrote...

I forgot that about that scene. It had a huge major plothole too in the fact that Shepard and the squad just sit back and watch as the terminally ill Thane fights Kai Leng.

For some reason that cut scene always reminds me street fighter. Thane and Kai Leng are the fighters while Shepard and friends stand in the background enthusiastically moving in the background, while not doing any number of things that could actually help.

[Ribosome]

"The Cerberus occupation of Omega is an illegal action"-Nyreen

enough said

[Barquiel]

congokong wrote...

Sure, but she didn't. It's not surprising. She felt horrible doing it. It wouldn't be an easy thing to bring up although Liara still should have told them.

I can understand that Liara would not share what she did since even she wasn't sure that it was going to work. If they failed, it would have been cruel to give Shepards family/friends that false hope (but she informed Hackett for example, he gave her the dog tags too). Miranda was absolutely doubtful that Shepard could be revived when Liara gave her the body...she told her that Cerberus may not be able to restore Shepard and that the body is in worse shape than expected - it took Wilson and TIM to convince her that it is possible.

[Barquiel]

I agree. I'm just curious why Bioware chose to let Shepard die. I don't care if she gets heavily injured or in a coma and they needed two years to wake her up, fine. But she died and it feels like an excuse for the import your character feature. What's wrong with a comatose? That would've made things so much easier.

But ok...they decided to let Shepard die. I think this should be a major plot point in Shepard's character arc in ME2 then...but it's barely mentioned after the first five minutes. You were dead, then you “got better”.

Modifié par Barquiel, 04 février 2014 - 09:34 .

[themikefest]

Barquiel wrote...

congokong wrote...

Sure, but she didn't. It's not surprising. She felt horrible doing it. It wouldn't be an easy thing to bring up although Liara still should have told them.

I can understand that Liara would not share what she did since even she wasn't sure that it was going to work. If they failed, it would have been cruel to give Shepards family/friends that false hope (but she informed Hackett for example, he gave her the dog tags too). Miranda was absolutely doubtful that Shepard could be revived when Liara gave her the body...she told her that Cerberus may not be able to restore Shepard and that the body is in worse shape than expected - it took Wilson and TIM to convince her that it is possible.

I still don't understand why Hackett gave the dogtags to her instead of Shepard's mother(for those who played as a spacer) What makes liara more important than Shepards mother? And if she is able to tell Hackett why couldn't she tell anyone else? Did hackett tell her not to?

[Invisible Man]

StreetMagic wrote...

themikefest wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

congokong wrote...

Sure, but she didn't. It's not surprising. She felt horrible doing it. It wouldn't be an easy thing to bring up although Liara still should have told them.

I can understand that Liara would not share what she did since even she wasn't sure that it was going to work. If they failed, it would have been cruel to give Shepards family/friends that false hope (but she informed Hackett for example, he gave her the dog tags too). Miranda was absolutely doubtful that Shepard could be revived when Liara gave her the body...she told her that Cerberus may not be able to restore Shepard and that the body is in worse shape than expected - it took Wilson and TIM to convince her that it is possible.

I still don't understand why Hackett gave the dogtags to her instead of Shepard's mother(for those who played as a spacer) What makes liara more important than Shepards mother? And if she is able to tell Hackett why couldn't she tell anyone else? Did hackett tell her not to?

StreetMagic wrote...

Everything about Lazarus, and everything connected to it, is stupid.

agreed.

[ShadowLordXII]

Thessia aftermath

[ImaginaryMatter]

StreetMagic wrote...

Everything about Lazarus, and everything connected to it, is stupid.

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall for that decision. Like, did the writers put in Shepard dying just because they needed a hand wave for the time skip, new leveling system, and possibly a different face? No one is particularly phased by the notion that Shepard was dead (including Shepard himself) and that some one some where found the cure for death. Most of the characters briefly acknowledge it for a sentence or two but then continue on with their normal lives, not fully understanding the miracle of science standing before them or asking any questions about life after death.

What bothered me about Lazarus was not the science behind it, but the fact that something so revolutionary is largely ignored by the story and it's characters.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

osbornep wrote...

Beyond what's already been mentioned, I'd probably go with the Reaper larvae scenes from ME2 myself. "Not just any Reaper . . . a human Reaper." Pretty cringe-inducing stuff.

Oh yeah, rofl. That was priceless. As if we're to look at Sovereign and Harbinger like "Oh you're just any Reaper!" 

[SwobyJ]

It's not supposed to be addressed...

Gonna adjust my tin foil hat some more, sorry ImaginaryMatter.

[congokong]

Barquiel wrote...

I agree. I'm just curious why Bioware chose to let Shepard die. I don't care if she gets heavily injured or in a coma and they needed two years to wake her up, fine. But she died and it feels like an excuse for the import your character feature. What's wrong with a comatose? That would've made things so much easier.

But ok...they decided to let Shepard die. I think this should be a major plot point in Shepard's character arc in ME2 then...but it's barely mentioned after the first five minutes. You were dead, then you “got better”.

I don't think characters should ever die and be brought back to life unless it's a theme of the series like in the show Supernatural. I remember my doubts when ME2 opened with them killing Shepard. I thought, "Oh... They're going down that road. Has the series jumped the shark?" It's such a wacky plot device. I will confess they truly made the most of it. I commend them for making such a morally gray situation like Liara giving Shepard's body to Cerberus. I still wish it was a coma or something rather than being rebuilt but whatever.

[AlexMBrennan]

What's wrong with a comatose?

People in a coma are treated in hospitals, not space!Al-Qaeda camps - if Shepard is "just" heavily injured than there is no justification for Shepard being completely isolated from all his friends and work for Cerberus.