1765 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

Lizardviking wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Cerberus attacking Sur'Kesh and the Citadel.

I love how the characters asks why Cerberus would do these things yet the game never bothers to explain it, Shepard even wovs to find out the reason behind the coup yet never does so.

Truly some of the worst missions of the franchise.

Cerberus is like plot-putty, you can shape it into whatever form you need!

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...
I'm not sure when the Catalyst starts controlling him though. It could be after Horizon, once he realizes Lawson's made progress. Maybe that's when he went with the implant procedure.

True, I've just been working with the assumption he's been indoctrinated for quite a while. I've heard it's implied in that gaiden comic about him but I could be wrong.

[ImaginaryMatter]

StreetMagic wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
Eh, I don't see the problem with Sur'Kesh. I DO see a problem with Sanctuary. If the Catalyst controls TIM then why allow him to research indoctrination to the point where the Catalyst feels it necessary to attack and destroy the research facility? That's the head-scratcher.

I'm not sure when the Catalyst starts controlling him though. It could be after Horizon, once he realizes Lawson's made progress. Maybe that's when he went with the implant procedure.

I thought he was Indoctrinate the whole time starting with Mars, even on my first play through, he is clearly nuts at that point.

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
And the game has been ridiculed for it.

Not really, no. Maybe a few threads here and there but that's about as representative as overall player interest in asari reproductive organs.

You haven't seen the threads questioning why the quarians would go to war with the geth while the rest of the galaxy fights the Reapers?  The batarians trying to face the Reapers alone?  The asari not mentioning the beacon they had until Thessia was already under seige?  

AN\\nd of course, Cerberus going full-on Bond villain just when the force they brought Shepard back to life to face arrives.

[CronoDragoon]

I've seen them and addressed it in my post. Nevermind that there've been well-reasoned defenses of all of those scenarios, regardless of whether I ultimately buy them.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 21 février 2014 - 08:35 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

StreetMagic wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
I thought he was Indoctrinate the whole time starting with Mars, even on my first play through, he is clearly nuts at that point.

What makes you think so? To me, he just seems vindicative. Especially if you destroyed the Collector Base. In that case, he's tired of Shepard's idealistic stances. He even mocks Shepard's ME2 lines.. "I'm not looking for your approval".

He's less vindicative in the final scene.. when he wants Shepard to "understand". That's similar to Saren at the end of ME1.

It's TIM's certainty in the fact that the Reapers can be controlled. Every Indoctrinated antagonist up to that point had that same conceit.

[eyezonlyii]

StreetMagic wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
I thought he was Indoctrinate the whole time starting with Mars, even on my first play through, he is clearly nuts at that point.

What makes you think so? To me, he just seems vindicative. Especially if you destroyed the Collector Base. In that case, he's tired of Shepard's idealistic stances. He even mocks Shepard's ME2 lines.. "I'm not looking for your approval".

He's less vindicative in the final scene.. when he wants Shepard to "understand". That's similar to Saren at the end of ME1.

It's TIM's certainty in the fact that the Reapers can be controlled. Every Indoctrinated antagonist up to that point had that same conceit.

I think I'll disagree there. Control is pretty unique to TIM. Saren thought survival was ensured as long as we were useful tools to the Reapers (being controlled rather than control. By the time he's full indoctrinated though, he tries to say Reapers need organics too. He thinks it's a partnership) and Kenson seemed to have some religious expectations or something.

I think what IM is geting at is the blind belief in the benefits of Raper technology, regardless of the danger whether it's from the hardware (TIM/Conrol) or the "software" (Saren/Syth and Kenson/Religious)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

CronoDragoon wrote...

von uber wrote...

Cerberus attacking Sur'Kesh really makes no sense whatsoever.

No reason for a humans-first organization to capture a female who is the key to reviving krogan dominance in the galaxy? What am I missing?

If you destroy the genophage data in ME2. TIM will show a lot of concern in the after-mission report. stating that the genophage cure might be vital to the war effort and without Maelon's data it might just be impossible to re-create the cure.

[Seboist]

Lizardviking wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Cerberus attacking Sur'Kesh and the Citadel.

I love how the characters asks why Cerberus would do these things yet the game never bothers to explain it, Shepard even wovs to find out the reason behind the coup yet never does so.

Truly some of the worst missions of the franchise.

The Citadel "coup" is such a worthless plot point that if you were to completely remove it from the game the story wouldn't  change one iota. Even if you have an import where Kai Leng succeeds in killing the Salarian councilor nothing changes.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Cerberus attacking Sur'Kesh and the Citadel.

I love how the characters asks why Cerberus would do these things yet the game never bothers to explain it, Shepard even wovs to find out the reason behind the coup yet never does so.

Truly some of the worst missions of the franchise.

The Citadel "coup" is such a worthless plot point that if you were to completely remove it from the game the story wouldn't  change one iota. Even if you have an import where Kai Leng succeeds in killing the Salarian councilor nothing changes.

I believe the only real reason it was made was to do some sort of disgusting attempt at fanservice to please their fanbase,

But seeing how many ate this **** raw, I can only feel contempt for the fans who praise this mission.

[Seboist]

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Cerberus attacking Sur'Kesh and the Citadel.

I love how the characters asks why Cerberus would do these things yet the game never bothers to explain it, Shepard even wovs to find out the reason behind the coup yet never does so.

Truly some of the worst missions of the franchise.

The Citadel "coup" is such a worthless plot point that if you were to completely remove it from the game the story wouldn't  change one iota. Even if you have an import where Kai Leng succeeds in killing the Salarian councilor nothing changes.

I believe the only real reason it was made was to do some sort of disgusting attempt at fanservice to please their fanbase,

But seeing how many ate this **** raw, I can only feel contempt for the fans who praise this mission.

Yep, ME3 is largely a paragon xenophile's dream come true RE: Udina and Cerberus.

[Iakus]

Lizardviking wrote...

I believe the only real reason it was made was to do some sort of disgusting attempt at fanservice to please their fanbase,

But seeing how many ate this **** raw, I can only feel contempt for the fans who praise this mission.

But who got fanserviced?

It wasn't the Thane fans.  A lot of them, especially those who romanced him, though his death was stupid and pointless.

It certainly wasn't the Ash or Kaidan fans either.  Most of them seemed sick and tired of their still doubting Shepard at that point.

[Seboist]

The Citadel coup was fan service to all the Udina haters and to a lesser extent the anti-Cerb ones. There's no point whatsoever to this mission other than to "drop loads" on Udina.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

StreetMagic wrote...

What part of fanservice is involved in the Coup? Killing Udina? Resentment against the VS?

I only find the latter particularly sad. The VS deserved better than to always look so contentious.

Both, plus Cerberus.

Seboist already said it really.

[Iakus]

Seboist wrote...

The Citadel coup was fan service to all the Udina haters and to a lesser extent the anti-Cerb ones. There's no point whatsoever to this mission other than to "drop loads" on Udina.

The really bizarre thing is, up until the coup, I was actually starting to like  Udina in ME3.  He was a jerk, but he was our jerk.

[Seboist]

iakus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The Citadel coup was fan service to all the Udina haters and to a lesser extent the anti-Cerb ones. There's no point whatsoever to this mission other than to "drop loads" on Udina.

The really bizarre thing is, up until the coup, I was actually starting to like  Udina in ME3.  He was a jerk, but he was our jerk.

ME3 did provide Udina with his best portrayal in the trilogy prior to the coup.

What a waste.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

ME3 should have turned Udina into a Churchill like figure.

Instead they sacrificed him to please all the idiots.

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

I believe one problem with Udina is that he was part of two disjointed portrayals.

Somewhere along the way, the game underwent a big rewrite. I'm not even sure the Coup was part of the original script? Not in that way at least. Thane and Kasumi were heavily tied into it, and Charles Saracino was part of the overall plot. There was also a side mission where a bomb or something was down in the wards and you were to go in and disarm it. Al-Jilani and Emily Wong were in the script, reporting on your progress.. it was supposed to be some scene where they strapped a camera on you while you searched. Thane was supposed to be the one who confronted Udina. The VS had a chance to die much later in a Thessia quest. Kai Leng was the one tricking them into going against Shepard. Not Udina.

You can actually see a bit of a remnant of that during the coup.  There's a point where Khalisah is broadcasting a distress call requesting reinforcements at the comunications tower from her news van.

Edi:  And to be honest, the Thessia confrontation looked like it would have been even worse.  I mean, the VS still doesn't trust you even that late into the game?  And Kai Leng, of all people, is egging them on?

Finally, it looked like a forced death between the VS and Liara.  I can't see that going over well at all. 

Modifié par iakus, 21 février 2014 - 10:26 .