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What do you think is the most poorly written scene in the ME series?


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#776
Iakus

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StreetMagic wrote...

No, it was better. The VS had already become a Spectre. And there was a mission when you find Javik (not DLC) on Eden Prime, and one of the VS's partners showed up.. you were forced into some situation that got them killed. Kai Leng uses this to breed hostility with the VS and Shepard. This is better than the Udina's vid about the Salarian councilor, imo.

Also, it makes Leng looked like the sneaky bastard he should've been.. And not just a front lines ninja. I think they tried to salvage this more insidious version of Cerberus with Brooks in the Citadel DLC.


But again, the VS would still have trust issues right up through Thessia.  People were p*ssed about Mars

And there's still the forced "Let the VS or Liara die" bit. 

#777
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iakus wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

No, it was better. The VS had already become a Spectre. And there was a mission when you find Javik (not DLC) on Eden Prime, and one of the VS's partners showed up.. you were forced into some situation that got them killed. Kai Leng uses this to breed hostility with the VS and Shepard. This is better than the Udina's vid about the Salarian councilor, imo.

Also, it makes Leng looked like the sneaky bastard he should've been.. And not just a front lines ninja. I think they tried to salvage this more insidious version of Cerberus with Brooks in the Citadel DLC.


But again, the VS would still have trust issues right up through Thessia.  People were p*ssed about Mars

And there's still the forced "Let the VS or Liara die" bit. 


Well, I won't complain about the possibility of Liara dying. I think that would've allowed another Adept into my crew.. Particularly Jack :lol: edit: Then again, it may not have. Javik could simply take over the Prothean expert and biotic duty.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 21 février 2014 - 10:36 .


#778
von uber

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The problem with letting Liara die is that you need a character to live through the trilogy to cut down on potential line writing / recording - you know that if Liara lives, you can rely on recording all the lines with her and not have to do every single character.

#779
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EDI and James fill the same role of "constant presence".

#780
RangerSG

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StreetMagic wrote...

iakus wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I believe one problem with Udina is that he was part of two disjointed portrayals.

Somewhere along the way, the game underwent a big rewrite. I'm not even sure the Coup was part of the original script? Not in that way at least. Thane and Kasumi were heavily tied into it, and Charles Saracino was part of the overall plot. There was also a side mission where a bomb or something was down in the wards and you were to go in and disarm it. Al-Jilani and Emily Wong were in the script, reporting on your progress.. it was supposed to be some scene where they strapped a camera on you while you searched. Thane was supposed to be the one who confronted Udina. The VS had a chance to die much later in a Thessia quest. Kai Leng was the one tricking them into going against Shepard. Not Udina.


You can actually see a bit of a remnant of that during the coup.  There's a point where Khalisah is broadcasting a distress call requesting reinforcements at the comunications tower from her news van.

Edi:  And to be honest, the Thessia confrontation looked like it would have been even worse.  I mean, the VS still doesn't trust you even that late into the game?  And Kai Leng, of all people, is egging them on?

Finally, it looked like a forced death between the VS and Liara.  I can't see that going over well at all. 


It seems better to me. The VS had already become a Spectre. And there was a mission when you find Javik (not DLC) on Eden Prime, and one of the VS's partners showed up.. you were forced into some situation that got them killed. Kai Leng uses this to breed hostility with the VS and Shepard. This is better than Udina's vid about the Salarian councilor, imo.

Also, it makes Leng look like the sneaky bastard he should've been.. And not just a front lines ninja. I think they tried to salvage this more insidious version of Cerberus with Brooks in the Citadel DLC.

I'd agree that would've been a better KL. But Brooks wasn't Cerberus anymore than she was really Alliance. I never thought of her as anything but an opportunist who took advantage of the chaos of war to use one of TIM's loose ends for her own purposes. 

#781
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RangerSG wrote...

I'd agree that would've been a better KL. But Brooks wasn't Cerberus anymore than she was really Alliance. I never thought of her as anything but an opportunist who took advantage of the chaos of war to use one of TIM's loose ends for her own purposes. 




She's definitely Cerberus in the Foundation comics. Her motivations are human centric. As for the DLC, she does still defend it at one point.. she just says TIM is a madman now.

#782
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StreetMagic wrote...

EDI and James fill the same role of "constant presence".

True; liara is unique in being able to bridge all 3 games as continuity though. 

#783
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von uber wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

EDI and James fill the same role of "constant presence".

True; liara is unique in being able to bridge all 3 games as continuity though. 




Maybe for you. I don't even play LotSB now. It's well done, but it seems more geared for her fans. The wife-husband like talk in the car chase, the spooning position when the Shadow Broker knocks out the other squadmate. The armor in her apartment to show how special you are to her. It seems more like a romantic reunion DLC than anything. A way to make up for everything fans were deprived of before. Which is fine. It just doesn't make much sense otherwise. If their goal was to make a DLC for everyone, I think they failed (by everyone, I mean something more general, like Overlord).

Modifié par StreetMagic, 21 février 2014 - 11:12 .


#784
DeinonSlayer

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StreetMagic wrote...

Maybe for you. I don't even play LotSB now. It's well done, but it seems more geared for her fans. The wife-husband like talk in the car chase, the spooning position when the Shadow Broker knocks out the other squadmate. The armor in her apartment to show how special you are to her. It seems more like a romantic reunion DLC than anything. A way to make up for everything fans were deprived of before. Which is fine. It just doesn't make much sense otherwise. If their goal was to make a DLC for everyone, I think they failed (by everyone, I mean something more general, like Overlord).

It's a Liara-centric DLC. It was awkward that first time I went through when Shepard dove to blueberry's rescue as his LI was getting a face-full of broken table, then she just walked out with Feron without saying a word while I was expected to interrupt-hug Liara again.

I wasn't on the boards back then; were there similar calls for DLC content for the VS?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 21 février 2014 - 11:32 .


#785
Seboist

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Maybe for you. I don't even play LotSB now. It's well done, but it seems more geared for her fans. The wife-husband like talk in the car chase, the spooning position when the Shadow Broker knocks out the other squadmate. The armor in her apartment to show how special you are to her. It seems more like a romantic reunion DLC than anything. A way to make up for everything fans were deprived of before. Which is fine. It just doesn't make much sense otherwise. If their goal was to make a DLC for everyone, I think they failed (by everyone, I mean something more general, like Overlord).

It's a Liara-centric DLC. It was awkward that first time I went through when Shepard dove to blueberry's rescue as his LI was getting a face-full of broken table, then she just walked out with Feron without saying a word while I was expected to interrupt-hug Liara again.

I wasn't on the boards back then; were there similar calls for DLC content for the VS?


Yes.

#786
Iakus

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

I wasn't on the boards back then; were there similar calls for DLC content for the VS?



YES!!!

In fact, it was hoped by some that the VS would somehow fit into Arrival when it was learned we would finally meet Hackett in person.

#787
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Oh I agree it is a Liara-centric one and if you wish to smash her face in with the butt of a rifle then you may not like it.
But my point is that that DLC is one of the more important one and acts as a bridging dlc, and thus (whether you like it or not) provides continuity for her.
And yes I don't mind it because due to the dearth of femshep LI's, Liara pretty much becomes the LI for me.

I agree about the VM survivor being sold short, ut then so was Liara before LotSB. The should have written both of them more into the game.

Modifié par von uber, 21 février 2014 - 11:35 .


#788
themikefest

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StreetMagic wrote...


Maybe for you. I don't even play LotSB now. It's well done, but it seems more geared for her fans. The wife-husband like talk in the car chase, the spooning position when the Shadow Broker knocks out the other squadmate. The armor in her apartment to show how special you are to her. It seems more like a romantic reunion DLC than anything. A way to make up for everything fans were deprived of before. Which is fine. It just doesn't make much sense otherwise. If their goal was to make a DLC for everyone, I think they failed (by everyone, I mean something more general, like Overlord).


The other that really bothered me is that if you decide to bring her up to the Normandy she mentions her birthday and you say you will get her something, she says she has you.

#789
Sir DeLoria

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Worst written scene? The Rannoch choice, it has so much fail and so many logic holes.

#790
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von uber wrote...

Oh I agree it is a Liara-centric one and if you wish to smash her face in with the butt of a rifle then you may not like it.
But my point is that that DLC is one of the more important one and acts as a bridging dlc, and thus (whether you like it or not) provides continuity for her.
And yes I don't mind it because due to the dearth of femshep LI's, Liara pretty much becomes the LI for me.

I agree about the VM survivor being sold short, ut then so was Liara before LotSB. The should have written both of them more into the game.


I don't want to necessarily smash her face in either. At least, not until they started shoehorning her in the series so much. I romanced her once, but that's just one playthrough. I'm capable of liking her at least. I just want replay value, different stories, and the game reacting better if I don't go down a certain path. It's kind of sad that they work on so many elements of the series, and then ultimately only deliver on one vision for Shepard.

#791
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Necanor wrote...

Worst written scene? The Rannoch choice, it has so much fail and so many logic holes.


I think you might have to go into detail on that one. I can think of a few but I can say that for a whole bunch of other scenes.

#792
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Necanor wrote...

Worst written scene? The Rannoch choice, it has so much fail and so many logic holes.


They attempted to create a situation where a giant space battle could be instantly resolved by the PC in a TPS. Of course there are going to be issues.

#793
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StreetMagic wrote...

I don't want to necessarily smash her face in either. At least, not until they started shoehorning her in the series so much. I romanced her once, but that's just one playthrough. I'm capable of liking her at least. I just want replay value, different stories, and the game reacting better if I don't go down a certain path. It's kind of sad that they work on so many elements of the series, and then ultimately only deliver on one vision for Shepard.


Oh i know, it was a quote from someone on here (they also wanted Thessia glassed and handed over to another race).
I see what you mean about Liara, it would be good as a femshep player that there was a decent romance for her comparable to the scope you get as Sheploo. However as itis, it seems to be either Liara, celibate or fling with Traynor.
I know there is Garrus but given that he can potentially not be there for the game (like Kaidan) that kind of limits the options.

So yes, I understand the LotSb stuff, but for me it was at least something.

#794
Sir DeLoria

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Worst written scene? The Rannoch choice, it has so much fail and so many logic holes.


I think you might have to go into detail on that one. I can think of a few but I can say that for a whole bunch of other scenes.


Well here are a few moot points: Gerrel turns into a full on psychopath with no sense of tactics and no ears apparently in an instance, Tali/Raan does nothing while the code gets uploaded, the second squadmate completely vanishes, Shep does nothing to warn the fleet about the impending upgrade, the huge space battle involving tens of thousands of ships apparently only takes 15 seconds, survivors(lifepods, fleeing ships) on either side are never again mentioned, Raan's nonchalant suicide is a complete joke and Legion's hypocrisy is ridiculous.

#795
Sir DeLoria

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wolfhowwl wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Worst written scene? The Rannoch choice, it has so much fail and so many logic holes.


They attempted to create a situation where a giant space battle could be instantly resolved by the PC in a TPS. Of course there are going to be issues.


Exactly, which is why they should never have implemented such a thing in the first place.

#796
DeinonSlayer

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Worst written scene? The Rannoch choice, it has so much fail and so many logic holes.


I think you might have to go into detail on that one. I can think of a few but I can say that for a whole bunch of other scenes.

Well, for starters, we know almost nothing about this Reaper code and are never given an option to question its safety or Legion's philosophical reversal in choosing to use it. The entirety of the blame for the conflict is dumped on the Quarians, with the writers going out of their way to avoid any mention of established facts which present the Geth in a negative light. Previously we're not allowed to question anything you're shown in the Consensus, even in light of the presenter repeatedly lying by omission throughout the arc. If you choose to kill the Quarians, neither Tali nor Raan intervenes (in the leaked script, Shepard stood back and watched Legion beat the hell out of Tali when she tried to intervene). Squadmate #2 is off smoking a blunt or something while all of this happens, and nobody is angry with Shepard afterwards (except EDI, if you killed the Geth - I think, if you killed the Quarians, Garrus should have knocked Shepard's ass out in the cargo hold; no friendly bottle-shooting contest for you!). Those are some of the problems, anyway.

I once wrote up how the scene could have been revised for a bit more balance.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 22 février 2014 - 12:17 .


#797
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Yes the way the Geth were portrayed was a bit odd.

#798
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DeinonSlayer wrote...

Well, for starters, we know almost nothing about this Reaper code and are never given an option to question its safety or Legion's philosophical reversal in choosing to use it. The entirety of the blame for the conflict is dumped on the Quarians, with the writers going out of their way to avoid any mention of established facts which present the Geth in a negative light. Previously we're not allowed to question anything you're shown in the Consensus, even in light of the presenter repeatedly lying by omission throughout the arc. If you choose to kill the Quarians, neither Tali nor Raan intervenes (in the leaked script, Shepard stood back and watched Legion beat the hell out of Tali when she tried to intervene). Squadmate #2 is off smoking a blunt or something while all of this happens, and nobody is angry with Shepard afterwards (except EDI, if you killed the Geth). Those are some of the problems, anyway.

I once wrote up how the scene could have been revised for a bit more balance.


David responded with a positive post?

For the record I think the scene was bad too, I just wanted to see why other people thought that way.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 22 février 2014 - 12:15 .


#799
DeinonSlayer

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I didn't know what to make of David's response, I admit. Worry not, he recanted soon afterwards IIRC.

#800
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Lizardviking wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Cerberus attacking Sur'Kesh and the Citadel.


I love how the characters asks why Cerberus would do these things yet the game never bothers to explain it, Shepard even wovs to find out the reason behind the coup yet never does so.

Truly some of the worst missions of the franchise.


I think the attack on the citadel was to get control of the citadel. Tim was trying to control the reapers. I think someone said that he had the info about the thessia beacon so he probably was able to access it by then and wanted to have the citadel to try to get control of the reapers since that is what the VI says. He doesn't have the info about the catalyst so he doesn't understand that the citadel is useless without it. At least this is how I'm trying to make sense of it.

As for the attack on sur'Kesh, I always thought that was him trying to keep shepard or the krogan or anyone from getting her. The Salarians say there was some sort of transmission sent out but not following protocols and they are tracking inbound aircraft or something like that if you listen to the conversations around the elevator before you actually attempt to get into that first elevator. So it seems they had someone there that alerted cerberus though it makes little sense as they are salarian, EXCEPT, Mordin seems to be the only one who wants this cure and the female krogan represents a threat to the galaxy.

From Tim's perspective, even before he went insane, that would be something he would want to keep from happening. He would absolutely kill the female krogan if she represented the threat of krogan being cured of the genophage which would put the galaxy and humans at risk. The enemy of my enemy and all that.... but they never actually say this so we are left to wonder. They should have stated it because it's kind of common sense when you consider it big picture, but the way it is done it doesn't really make sense partly because cerberus is everywhere and seems to not have any method to their madness. But in this case, there is a logic to it.

Same with the bomb on tuchunka. Tim may not know about peace efforts, but he would if he knows about the krogan female, he also would probably like to limit krogan population however possible. The two go together when you think along those lines. He still is Tim with his agenda to help humans despite how warped or twisted it has become and despite the addition of controlling the reapers. Limiting the krogan population is just another plus for humanity in his wacky logic.