1765 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

There's a time and place for everything. If the VS wants to bellyache about Shepard's history with Cerberus, Mars is certainly not the place. The reapers are invading earth, and Cerberus is apparently killing people on sight. If Shepard was truly a pawn for the Illusive Man, he/she could have simply ditched them the moment they came across the group, or lead them into a trap in the archives. Complaining about Cerberus won't change that, and it only serves to annoy. While the VS has reason to have reservations, it's idiotic to bring that sort of nonsense into a situation where they are hunting for information that could very well prevent the extinction of the entire human race.

[Mordokai]

#BenderLaughHarder

 

Just because it's too obvious not to be seen: https://www.youtube....h?v=_n5E7feJHw0

 

Reading the comments makes this even funnier. And quite ironic, given the place we find ourselves in.

 

 

my reaction to bioware and " the choices you take will matter"

[PwrdOff]

The scenes with the VS on Mars were pretty irritating.  Of course it's important to show characters questioning Shepard, but that's really something that should have come later on.  Immediately establishing them as these irritating whiners doesn't exactly make it seem tragic when they get pwned by Dr. Eva.  Plus, the entire VS storyline just loses all weight unless you romanced them, which doesn't fit in with the rest of the game's story because Liara canon romance and all that.

[von uber]

I think it could have been interesting if there had been a chip inserted.

[CrutchCricket]

Them questioning shepard has probably been the smartest thing any character in mass effect has done in a while. "I work with cerberus, only I don't" isn't a good answer and doesn't explain ****, nor does it make the new normandy, edi, the crew, or shepard himself, any more trustworthy in any capacity.

 

Shepard was either dead, or as close to dead as possible, for two years while be worked on by an organization known for their shady operations, human experimentation, unethical abandonment of all restraint or scientific caution, and has confirmed tech implants and experimental medical tech inside of their body, as well as having a revolutionary procedure preformed to bring their biological body back to fully functional. In an age where an artificial or virtual intelligence can have a persons brain patterns copied, stored, and uploaded into a physical body (President Huerta), why don't more people actually question shepard as to whether they actually are shepard? Where is the proof cerberus didn't implant mental of physiological alterations to make shepard more complaint? A ability to basically turn off shepards implants or worse, begin influencing shepard mentally through chemical and neural signal alterations in the brain at key points? Aria is like the only person to do so, and all she did was pretty much a once over using a scanner. That is also not good enough, in my opinion.

 

I don't understand how people don't like the VS questioning shepard, when this one question of whether shepard is really shepard, or is completely free of cerberus interference, has never been addressed or brought up in any serious or in depth capacity?

 

Maybe because that's never the focus of the questioning? The VS' wangst over Cerberus is never "what did they do to you?" (apart from maybe that one line where the dead trooper's unmasked, though even that is phrased differently) but rather "why are you working for these people who can only be bad because my precious Alliance says so?"

 

The VS' bitching at you presupposes that you are indeed Shepard and freely chose to work for Cerberus, and in their skewed and biased view, this makes you a traitor to all (they believe) you stand for. They repeatedly question your honor and loyalty in a manner that's downright insulting.

 

The kind of questioning you're talking about would be welcome, and from multiple characters as well. But that's never how it goes down. Even Anderson in ME2 just assumes it's you and only says he doesn't trust Cerberus.

 

To the question itself, Dr. Chakwas can reasonably be assumed to not be under Cerberus sway and she can verify Shepard is indeed whole and free. Mordin even more so, though for different reasons. He can identify the tech better but Chakwas would know Shepard from the past, and thus know what he's supposed to be like.

[Iakus]

Maybe because that's never the focus of the questioning? The VS' wangst over Cerberus is never "what did they do to you?" (apart from maybe that one line where the dead trooper's unmasked, though even that is phrased differently) but rather "why are you working for these people who can only be bad because my precious Alliance says so?"

 

The VS' bitching at you presupposes that you are indeed Shepard and freely chose to work for Cerberus, and in their skewed and biased view, this makes you a traitor to all (they believe) you stand for. They repeatedly question your honor and loyalty in a manner that's downright insulting.

 

The kind of questioning you're talking about would be welcome, and from multiple characters as well. But that's never how it goes down. Even Anderson in ME2 just assumes it's you and only says he doesn't trust Cerberus.

 

To the question itself, Dr. Chakwas can reasonably be assumed to not be under Cerberus sway and she can verify Shepard is indeed whole and free. Mordin even more so, though for different reasons. He can identify the tech better but Chakwas would know Shepard from the past, and thus know what he's supposed to be like.

 

I actually prefer the dialogue Mars to Horizon.  Horizon the VS calls Shepard a traitor to his/her face.  On Mars, Ash, at least acknowledges that Shepard may be under outside control.  Possibly even unknowingly.  This is the same sort of logic Anderson used in ME2, where he says he lied to Shepard because Cerberus could be manipulating Shep, and couldn't take that risk.

[CrutchCricket]

I actually prefer the dialogue Mars to Horizon.  Horizon the VS calls Shepard a traitor to his/her face.  On Mars, Ash, at least acknowledges that Shepard may be under outside control.  Possibly even unknowingly.  This is the same sort of logic Anderson used in ME2, where he says he lied to Shepard because Cerberus could be manipulating Shep, and couldn't take that risk.

 

Even Anderson's doubts seem to be more in line with mundane manipulation and lying than outright control. The implications of Lazarus whether philosophic (identity) or practical (is Shepard just a Cerberus tool) are simply ignored, apart from brief lip service on Cronos. And that's what my point was. Raising questions about them is what should've happened. "Boo-hoo you're a traitor" is not.

 

Another consideration is that even these questions should've been resolved by ME3. As dumb as turning yourself in is, it did happen. So the Alliance had plenty of time to scan him and run all the tests they could think of to determine whether he's really back, and not just TIM's puppet. But of course, that would involve actually doing something useful instead of sitting on their asses, and we can't have that.

[DeinonSlayer]

The standoff on the Citadel is just bad. Especially if you show up with Liara and Garrus in tow.

If you show up with James and EDI (the stranger who vouched for your loyalty and the robot who bashed their head in, respectively), it makes a bit more sense, but squadmates don't factor into how things play out.

[Steelcan]

The standoff on the Citadel is just bad. Especially if you show up with Liara and Garrus in tow.

If you show up with James and EDI (the stranger who vouched for your loyalty and the robot who bashed their head in, respectively), it makes a bit more sense, but squadmates don't factor into how things play out.

 

Show up in a Cerberus armor for bonus points

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think it could have been interesting if there had been a chip inserted.

 

That could have made an interesting twist.

 

At the very least it would explain why some Shepards found it so easy to work for Cerberus out of character.

[themikefest]

I like to know why  Garrus, edi, Liara, Javik, Vega don't speak up when Udina shows evidence of Shepard alledgedlly shooting the Salarian councillor to Ashley/Kaidan?

[Han Shot First]

Show up in a Cerberus armor for bonus points

 

[DeinonSlayer]

I like to know why Garrus, edi, Liara, Javik, Vega don't speak up when Udina shows evidence of Shepard alledgedlly shooting the Salarian councillor to Ashley/Kaidan?

Then there's the whole question of where or when he could even have gotten that footage while being pursued and in the presence of the VS.

Like I said, just plain bad.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I like to know why  Garrus, edi, Liara, Javik, Vega don't speak up when Udina shows evidence of Shepard alledgedlly shooting the Salarian councillor to Ashley/Kaidan?

 

Because that would break the logic of the scene and thereby make it impossible for Mac (he's the writer for the coup right?) to force that retarded conflict between Shepard and the VS.

[themikefest]

this is what can happen to Ashley during the Citadel coup. Go to 2;25 and Ashley will say "I hope the reapers send you to he**"

[von uber]

That could have made an interesting twist.

 

At the very least it would explain why some Shepards found it so easy to work for Cerberus out of character.

 

Especially if it turns out Miranda is working for TIM all along.. that would've been a better showdown on Cronos than Kai Leng..

[Mordokai]

 

As the artist would put it:

 

 

By http://padzi.deviantart.com/

 

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot

[Iakus]

That could have made an interesting twist.

 

At the very least it would explain why some Shepards found it so easy to work for Cerberus out of character.

setting:  Horizon

Ash:  Shepard!  What are you doing here?

 

Shepard: Ashley!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, the COllectors are behind the missing colonies.  Here's a recording and omnitool data from Freedom's Progress.  Find Tali, she can veri-

 

TIM ::flips a switch:: Assuming direct control, Shepard (puff)

 

Shepard:  Hey Ash, long time no see.  Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times

[ImaginaryMatter]

setting:  Horizon

Ash:  Shepard!  What are you doing here?

 

Shepard: Ashley!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, the COllectors are behind the missing colonies.  Here's a recording and omnitool data from Freedom's Progress.  Find Tali, she can veri-

 

TIM ::flips a switch:: Assuming direct control, Shepard (puff)

 

Shepard:  Hey Ash, long time no see.  Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times

 

I added that dialogue option to the list of things I never ever choose anymore.

[CrutchCricket]

In another place and time, Shepard finding out he was a copy/Cerberus puppet and his subsequent struggles with the idea would've made for some real interesting storytelling. But not here, I think. Not when it's supposed to be your choices shaping the story, and not when it invalidates an entire second entry of a trilogy, and on a point that's very rationally explained.

[Cainhurst Crow]

this is what can happen to Ashley during the Citadel coup. Go to 2;25 and Ashley will say "I hope the reapers send you to he**"

 

That might actually take the cake for worst written dialouge, even more then benezia's.

 

"You're working for cerberus, that's why you shot udina when he was going to kill the other councilors and achieve cerberus's goal."

 

Like seriously, I guess the writers wrote that little tidbit and dubbed it before the animators actually did the scene.

[KaiserShep]

I like to know why  Garrus, edi, Liara, Javik, Vega don't speak up when Udina shows evidence of Shepard alledgedlly shooting the Salarian councillor to Ashley/Kaidan?

 

It's been such a long time since I've had that happen in a playthrough of mine, since Kirrahe and Thane are always alive in subsequent playthroughs, but yeah, it's disappointing that the other members of your team don't back you up here.

[rekn2]

Or, they do it because it's fun.

 

Has that idea crossed your mind??

david is the troll that everyone loves to feed....no wait The Troll That Everyone Loves To Feed. lol, like some Cthulu monster!

[KaiserShep]

david is the troll that everyone loves to feed....no wait The Troll That Everyone Loves To Feed. lol, like some Cthulu monster!

 

All will cast their gripes upon the smorgasbord so the beast may gorge.

[DeinonSlayer]

All will cast their gripes upon the smorgasbord so the beast may gorge.

His scoffing accounts for a whopping 0.4% of the Earth's annual carbon output.