1765 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Are you Javik? He has been known to slay his own men so to spare them from reaperization and perhaps subsequently preventing future possibility of combat encounters with his men-turned-collectors

 

Your post is quite disturbing without the support of context information. I understand there are always difficult situations where hard choices must be made, but we only sacrifice people in order to save more of them, and even this line of thought appears chillingly cold

 

I'd sacrifice however many people I need to if it brings Reapers down. If I had a get out of jail free card that required the death of 99% of the galactic population but killed the Reapers with no strings attached, I'd take it. And I'd be perfectly content and fine with it. I did what I set out to do. I killed the Reapers, and Miranda is alive. I did what I needed to do.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

More and more I begin to doubt you are really military.

 

Because I hold an admittedly callous and sociopathic disregard for the lives of others if it serves my purpose?

[Iakus]

Honestly, what's wrong with Sanctuary, besides the single man who's running it? Beyond it being inefficient to a degree, they found a potential game-changer that could possibly give us a major advantage on the ground against the Reapers.

 

Because it slaughtered the very people who went there for safety?  

 

To risk Godwinizing the thread, that place was a freaking concentration camp!

 

You wanna play around with Reaper tech, get volunteers who know the risks to experiment on.  Preferably far, far away from potential collateral damage.

 

As Garrus puts it "If the people I'm sworn to protect can't trust me, I don't deserve to be the one protecting them"

[DeinonSlayer]

How are they not in my way? They aren't contributing to the war effort. Against the Reapers, it really is a case of 'you're either with us, or you're against us'. There is no middle ground. What's wrong with you? It is disturbing, sure. I really don't give a damn about the people that compose the race. Should I? What good are they to me? What value are they to me?

There's a difference between blowing away a woman who's running from your shuttle on the Presidium (is she there representing a party who's furthering the war effort? You don't know.) versus a Miracle at Palaven-style nuking. I can understand giving a colony the means to destroy itself versus leaving them to be converted to Reaper husks, but up until that point, to put things in your parlance, they can still be of use. I agree volunteers are more useful than refugees in the wake of a disaster, but I see that as grounds for drafting the latter. If anything, indiscriminate murder would turn more people against you and make your job harder.

[Vigilant111]

I'd sacrifice however many people I need to if it brings Reapers down. If I had a get out of jail free card that required the death of 99% of the galactic population but killed the Reapers with no strings attached, I'd take it. And I'd be perfectly content and fine with it. I did what I set out to do. I killed the Reapers, and Miranda is alive. I did what I needed to do.

 

???

 

Have you lost your wits? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Mass Effect all about SAVING THE GALAXY? Oh, I get it, you and Miranda are the sole constituents of said galaxy, gotcha

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Because it slaughtered the very people who went there for safety?  

 

To risk Godwinizing the thread, that place was a freaking concentration camp!

 

You wanna play around with Reaper tech, get volunteers who know the risks to experiment on.  Preferably far, far away from potential collateral damage.

 

As Garrus puts it "If the people I'm sworn to protect can't trust me, I don't deserve to be the one protecting them"

 

Yeah, it did. Why weren't those people taking up arms and fighting? Why weren't they contributing to the war?

 

Why were they taking resources away from the fight and squandering them on their own lives? Why aren't they being useful? I can't afford for them to waste time and energy. They're a load. Pests not worth protecting.

 

Preventing collateral damage doesn't win wars. 

 

I'm not out for the people who happen to benefit from my work. They're leeches in my eyes. Especially here in context of the Reaper War. I'm not out for their benefit. I'm there to stop the Reapers. Because if I don't stop them, they're going to stop me. And they're going to kill the people I do care about. I don't even hate them. They're doing what they do. I'm doing what I do. It's a conflict of interest, and an incompatible one. It's them or me, and it's certainly not going to be me.

[Mordokai]

Yeah, it did. Why weren't those people taking up arms and fighting? Why weren't they contributing to the war?

 

Why were they taking resources away from the fight and squandering them on their own lives? Why aren't they being useful? I can't afford for them to waste time and energy. They're a load. Pests not worth protecting.

 

Preventing collateral damage doesn't win wars. 

 

I'm not out for the people who happen to benefit from my work. They're leeches in my eyes. Especially here in context of the Reaper War. I'm not out for their benefit. I'm there to stop the Reapers. Because if I don't stop them, they're going to stop me. And they're going to kill the people I do care about. I don't even hate them. They're doing what they do. I'm doing what I do. It's a conflict of interest, and an incompatible one. It's them or me, and it's certainly not going to be me.

 

Is this your Shepard talking? Or you?

 

Because, silly as it may sound, I'm not quite sure anymore.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

???

 

Have you lost your wits? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Mass Effect all about SAVING THE GALAXY? Oh, I get it, you and Miranda are the sole constituents of said galaxy, gotcha

 

To many, maybe. Not for me. I'm not out to save the galaxy. Simple as that. You have the ability to vocalize who or what you're fighting for in the games.

[TheTurtle]

How are they not in my way? They aren't contributing to the war effort. Against the Reapers, it really is a case of 'you're either with us, or you're against us'. There is no middle ground. What's wrong with you? It is disturbing, sure. I really don't give a damn about the people that compose the race. Should I? What good are they to me? What value are they to me?

Apparently what's wrong with me is that I have a damn conscience and I'm not a sociopathic killer. People may have not have value to you, but they have value to someone.

If we're talking about the same Cerberus then the lines ‛ if you're not with us you're against us' applies to them. Now of you're talking about the Cerberus you've invented in you're fanfiction then i'm not touching that as it has nothing to do with Mass Effect as we know it.

You can be the dominate power all you want, but if their is nothing their to dominate what's the point. Who in their right mind would follow someone who is willing to murder innocent civilians. I say murder because that is exactly what Cerberus did on both the Citadel and Mars. Miranda may be ruthless, vut from what I have seen she isn't for killing innocents. She even attempts to warn people away from Sanctuary which you want to keep open.

Cerberus did nothing to help the war effort all they ever did in cannon was hinder it. Everything they have ever done was for them and not for humanity.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Is this your Shepard talking? Or you?

 

Because, silly as it may sound, I'm not quite sure anymore.

 

One and the same, to be honest. A combination of several life events and experiences, and the novels 'Heart of Darkness', 'Discourses on Livy', and 'Infanterie Greift An' contributed to the way I think. That, and natural sociopathic and severe tendencies.

[KaiserShep]

On an unrelated note, I'm beginning to understand how people on this forum have upwards five thousand posts...

What can I say? I love to argue over the internets.

[CrutchCricket]

How are they not in my way? They aren't contributing to the war effort. Against the Reapers, it really is a case of 'you're either with us, or you're against us'. There is no middle ground. What's wrong with you? It is disturbing, sure. I really don't give a damn about the people that compose the race. Should I? What good are they to me? What value are they to me?

 

That doesn't mean what you think it means. "With us or against us" means there's no one playing both sides, or having sympathies for both sides. It doesn't mean there are no noncombatants. You of all people should know what the term noncombatant means.

 

And if the people that make up the race don't matter then the race doesn't matter. So what exactly are you fighting for? Your own survival? If that's the case, you're doing it wrong. You have a better chance hiding. A single person, or a small group can hide from the Reapers for the rest of their lives. Might even make it a cozy hidey-hole if they plan for it. You could take Miranda and whoever else... except I don't think Miranda would be amenable to the idea. Or to your more extreme ideas for that matter.

 

There would be a lot of dead alliance command personnel for certain.

 

In another time and place, it would make an interesting story.

 

 I wish to survive. I wish to make the galaxy a better place for me to live in. I'll act however I need to act to make it work.

 

I'm not so sure a galaxy where civilians are thrown into the meat grinder callously, even eagerly is "a better place". There's a difference between what you absolutely have to do, and what you do just because you can't be bothered by the alternatives.

 

Come to think of it, you might fit into this failure that is Cerberus after all. You'd likely be more efficient in terms of operations. But you seem to profess to be just as wasteful and needlessly malevolent.

 

Honestly, what's wrong with Sanctuary, besides the single man who's running it? Beyond it being inefficient to a degree, they found a potential game-changer that could possibly give us a major advantage on the ground against the Reapers.

 

They can get a husk to do backflips. Woohoo, call the news the war is won. And to do that they... massacred hundreds if not thousands of civilians. Or worse, actually.

 

Oh and we potentially can already do what they've been trying to do courtesy of Leviathan, with zero procedural casualties...

 

*slow clap*

 

Again. There's doing what you have to do. And there's being cartoonishly evil because **** it, why not?

[Iakus]

Yeah, it did. Why weren't those people taking up arms and fighting? Why weren't they contributing to the war?

 

Why were they taking resources away from the fight and squandering them on their own lives? Why aren't they being useful? I can't afford for them to waste time and energy. They're a load. Pests not worth protecting.

 

Preventing collateral damage doesn't win wars. 

 

I'm not out for the people who happen to benefit from my work. They're leeches in my eyes. Especially here in context of the Reaper War. I'm not out for their benefit. I'm there to stop the Reapers. Because if I don't stop them, they're going to stop me. And they're going to kill the people I do care about. I don't even hate them. They're doing what they do. I'm doing what I do. It's a conflict of interest, and an incompatible one. It's them or me, and it's certainly not going to be me.

 

Sounds like the most efficient use of resources for you would be to take the Normandy and Miranda, find some nice unsettled garden world, and live like cavemen while the Reapers cull the galaxy

[themikefest]

When it comes to defeating the reapers, everything has to be considered no matter how evil or sickening it is no matter what. Its them or me.

[TheTurtle]

If I wanted to be king, I'd control the Reapers. Then I get to be king of everything and make things the way I want. I have no desire for that. I wish to survive. I wish to make the galaxy a better place for me to live in. I'll act however I need to act to make it work.

Game of Thrones that's all im gonna say

[Mordokai]

One and the same, to be honest. A combination of several life events and experiences, and the novels 'Heart of Darkness', 'Discourses on Livy', and 'Infanterie Greift An' contributed to the way I think.

 

Then, at the risk of sounding holier than thou and not really caring... get help. Because that's not normal.

 

And I've never been big on normal.

 

Perhaps it would be better to say it's not healthy.

[Iakus]

Game of Thrones that's all im gonna say

 

I prefer Stormlight Archive

 

"We live by the codes not because they bring gain, but because we loathe the people we would otherwise become"

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Apparently what's wrong with me is that I have a damn conscience and I'm not a sociopathic killer. People may have not have value to you, but they have value to someone.

If we're talking about the same Cerberus then the lines ‛ if you're not with us you're against us' applies to them. Now of you're talking about the Cerberus you've invented in you're fanfiction then i'm not touching that as it has nothing to do with Mass Effect as we know it.

You can be the dominate power all you want, but if their is nothing their to dominate what's the point. Who in their right mind would follow someone who is willing to murder innocent civilians. I say murder because that is exactly what Cerberus did on both the Citadel and Mars. Miranda may be ruthless, vut from what I have seen she isn't for killing innocents. She even attempts to warn people away from Sanctuary which you want to keep open.

Cerberus did nothing to help the war effort all they ever did in cannon was hinder it. Everything they have ever done was for them and not for humanity.

 

Hypothetically speaking, would you let your conscious get in the way of necessity? I take no pleasure in the deaths of people. That said, I'm not affected by it either. If people have value, why aren't they displaying it? What value do they hold in being alive? What does their intrinsic self-worth accomplish when it comes to killing Reapers? If it's not tangible, then it's not real.

 

Sure, I've acknowledged Cerberus as such many times. To my regret, they chose to be my enemy. I really wish they didn't, but I'll do what I must. I'll rebuild them into something better post-war. 

 

What's the point of dominating when there's no dominion? I don't know, that's not my goal. That said, I think the ideal of being alive and being the best (proving it through survival) contributes. That's how some people feel. It's how they get off. I don't personally understand or subscribe to it but it's there. I don't begrudge them for it.

[CrutchCricket]

When it comes to defeating the reapers, everything has to be considered no matter how evil or sickening it is no matter what. Its them or me.

 

What is being discussed is beyond "considering every alternative".

 

I admit if things got desperate I would glass a colony rather than let it be harvested into a new Reaper or turned into husks that then attack me. The difference between Massively and myself is that I would do after it's already lost and about to be overrun whereas Massively seems to say he'd do it on day 1. That's not mere ruthlessness or pragmatism. That's simply genocide because you can.

 

It's not asking "why" and providing justification. It's asking "why not" and finding none.

[CronoDragoon]

Hypothetically speaking, would you let your conscious get in the way of necessity?

 

Hypothetically speaking, no.

 

But what necessity exists? The Reaper war was won without Sanctuary. Claims of necessity are often just convenient excuses for dominating and enslaving people because you can, because it's in your power to do so, not because no other options were available.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Then, at the risk of sounding holier than thou and not really caring... get help. Because that's not normal.
 
And I've never been big on normal.
 
Perhaps it would be better to say it's not healthy.

i'll ask: get help for what? I wouldn't trade my outlook for the world.

[Vigilant111]

Hypothetically speaking, would you let your conscious get in the way of necessity? I take no pleasure in the deaths of people. That said, I'm not affected by it either. If people have value, why aren't they displaying it? What value do they hold in being alive? What does their intrinsic self-worth accomplish when it comes to killing Reapers? If it's not tangible, then it's not real.

 

What's the point of dominating when there's no dominion? I don't know, that's not my goal. That said, I think the ideal of being alive and being the best (proving it through survival) contributes. That's how some people feel. It's how they get off. I don't personally understand or subscribe to it but it's there. I don't begrudge them for it.

 

Why should they display it? and why wouldn't people display it if they knew about the reapers and their attributes?

 

Look, instead of letting them die, why don't you save them and encourage them to contribute to the war effort?

[Mordokai]

i'll ask: get help for what? I wouldn't trade my outlook for the world.

 

That's what worries me, yeah

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'll respond better when I'm on a computer.

[TheTurtle]

What is being discussed is beyond "considering every alternative".

I admit if things got desperate I would glass a colony rather than let it be harvested into a new Reaper or turned into husks that then attack me. The difference between Massively and myself is that I would do after it's already lost and about to be overrun whereas Massively seems to say he'd do it on day 1. That's not mere ruthlessness or pragmatism. That's simply genocide because you can.

It's not asking "why" and providing justification. It's asking "why not" and finding none.

Exatly This.