1765 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

So literally exactly the same thing, except now players hate the Alliance and are shooting innocent guards instead of husks?

Well not "literally". I'd have had more than a walk and a speech before the breakout. Also, the breakout would have involved the jail under attack and the jailors mostly abandonning it.

[dreamgazer]

Was Shepard forced to "hate" anybody when s/he hijacked the grounded Normandy and fled in ME1?

Desperate times, desperate measures, nothing personal.

[Ryriena]

Yeah, I don't think my politics are relevant to this thread, and I definitely don't need to be insulted for them. There's a reason I ignored that guy.
 
I actually do hate Ashley though. I was honestly expecting a lot more confrontation in ME3, and an ability to be a lot harsher and critical of her and her views/judgement.

Ah my mistake then you were caring yourself in the debate very well in my perspective. To me it doesn't seem like your hating on her xd. Agreed on not being insulted on things just because you view things differently.

[Ryriena]

I'd be curious how many VS-mancers stayed loyal in their ME2 playthroughs.

Hand raised
cough but my Shepard saw it as she really likes Kaidan.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Was Shepard forced to "hate" anybody when s/he hijacked the grounded Normandy and fled in ME1?

Desperate times, desperate measures, nothing personal.

 

Exactly. And does that mean I'm willing to put down an innocent guard who's just doing his job to make his living? Yes. My needs outweigh his life. Sorry man, but you're in my way, you just sacrificed yourself to your cause. Granted, my Shepard would likely have some bitter antipathy to their fate, seeing as he pretty much doesn't have time for alliance types.

[DeathScepter]

So literally exactly the same thing, except now players hate the Alliance and are shooting innocent guards instead of husks?

 

 

Hey that one guard was making fun of my mother. he needs an arrow to the knee.  *makes the popcorn for everyone*

[Iakus]

Why does Shepard have to hate the Alliance to break out of jail in a pressing situation?

Paragon:  sneaky route and  only killing husks

 

Renegade:  "Terminatoresque"

 

[CptFalconPunch]

I disagree completely. I believe it was actually a very good opportunity to see what was going on outside the alliance and to look at alternative methods of coming ahead to beat the Reapers and bring advancements in science and technology.

Lets look past the stupid space magic deus ex machina that brought back shepard, the lack of options to clear the **** cerberus did in the last game, the fact that they killed and conducted experiments on their whole unit etc.

 

Yes something could have been done. Instead, we never, ever even tried to find any technological advancements or clues about how we stop the reapers. This happened on Mars in ME3.... And had nothing to do with cerberus....

 

How can you still defend this is beyond me

[KaiserShep]

Lets look past the stupid space magic deus ex machina that brought back shepard, the lack of options to clear the **** cerberus did in the last game, the fact that they killed and conducted experiments on their whole unit etc.

 

Yes something could have been done. Instead, we never, ever even tried to find any technological advancements or clues about how we stop the reapers. This happened on Mars in ME3.... And had nothing to do with cerberus....

 

I imagine it would have been interesting to be able to simply shoot Jacob and Wilson once you learn who they were working for. In Shepard's position, I'd probably have done something like that if I was the survivor of the Akuze attack, or was at all concerned about the fact that they freely murder Alliance officers.

 

"Cerberus, you say? Say goodnight, mooks."

[rekn2]

Yeah, I don't think my politics are relevant to this thread, and I definitely don't need to be insulted for them. There's a reason I ignored that guy.

 

I actually do hate Ashley though. I was honestly expecting a lot more confrontation in ME3, and an ability to be a lot harsher and critical of her and her views/judgement.

you gave excuses for ashley when there isnt 1 then go on to state the reason why it doesnt matter that shep is in a terrorist group.

 

reaper threat > all. we clear now?

 

and iakus was right.

[Mordokai]

I'm actually starting to think that the next time David calls something "silly" or "ridiculous" without any explanation, we should actually not ask him why he thinks this. It' just never productive at all.

 

Maybe we can make a drinking game out of it?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Lets look past the stupid space magic deus ex machina that brought back shepard, the lack of options to clear the **** cerberus did in the last game, the fact that they killed and conducted experiments on their whole unit etc.

 

Yes something could have been done. Instead, we never, ever even tried to find any technological advancements or clues about how we stop the reapers. This happened on Mars in ME3.... And had nothing to do with cerberus....

 

How can you still defend this is beyond me

 

I saw plenty of technological advances. My Shepard, a Sole Survivor, didn't really see issues with any of the experiments. If they yielded results, then they were viable. And we never were the ones doing technological experiments. The mission in ME2 for our cell was to stop the Collectors. Other cells were working on technological advancements, and as far as I could tell, they basically all succeeded at one level or another. 

 

I can defend it just fine when it isn't made into a terribly phrased, non-linear appeal-to-rage strawman. I'm a grammar nazi: speak well, and type better. Make sense of your words. You don't get to have a non-clear point and present it as an argument.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Maybe we can make a drinking game out of it?

 

Get with the times: We've had one for a long time. Me and Fiddles, the resident hot Aussie, had a game where we would do that. We had to stop for our own health.

 

There was a lot of times drunk posting though. Good times.

[dreamgazer]

Maybe we can make a drinking game out of it?

We used to do that with another poster around here who seems to have disappeared. Wonder if it'd work here, too. Hmm.

Shots taken after "That's nonsense" and "That's stupid", gulp half a drink after "Do you feel powerful?", and finish your entire drink if they use Clarke's third law as a hand-wave. Couldn't really make any more rules beyond that, since nobody's keen on alcohol poisoning.

[themikefest]

Drinking games. I did that in the 80's while watching the movie The Blues Brothers. Every time Jake and Elwood, The Blues Brothers was mentioned, we take a shot. At times we had to take ten shots because of the names said within a few seconds. We had to put the movie on pause a lot.

[rekn2]

I saw plenty of technological advances. My Shepard, a Sole Survivor, didn't really see issues with any of the experiments. If they yielded results, then they were viable. And we never were the ones doing technological experiments. The mission in ME2 for our cell was to stop the Collectors. Other cells were working on technological advancements, and as far as I could tell, they basically all succeeded at one level or another. 

 

I can defend it just fine when it isn't made into a terribly phrased, non-linear appeal-to-rage strawman. I'm a grammar nazi: speak well, and type better. Make sense of your words. You don't get to have a non-clear point and present it as an argument.

 

 

exactly. it doesnt matter what the rest of cerberus was doing and ashley saw it first hand. the reaper threat is cosmically greater than TIM could possibly make cerberus.

[DeinonSlayer]

Drinking games. I did that in the 80's while watching the movie The Blues Brothers. Every time Jake and Elwood, The Blues Brothers was mentioned, we take a shot. At times we had to take ten shots because of the names said within a few seconds. We had to put the movie on pause a lot.

You could take a drink every time a car is destroyed on screen.

[CptFalconPunch]

I saw plenty of technological advances. My Shepard, a Sole Survivor, didn't really see issues with any of the experiments. If they yielded results, then they were viable. And we never were the ones doing technological experiments. The mission in ME2 for our cell was to stop the Collectors. Other cells were working on technological advancements, and as far as I could tell, they basically all succeeded at one level or another. 

 

I can defend it just fine when it isn't made into a terribly phrased, non-linear appeal-to-rage strawman. I'm a grammar nazi: speak well, and type better. Make sense of your words. You don't get to have a non-clear point and present it as an argument.

Really everything you said at this point is either hanging in the air, or never even mattered against the fight with the reapers. 

All those supposed technological advancements that may have been made, could have been applied, or may have been prove absolutely nothing.

 

Try placing the made up "Technological advancements" thanks to cerberus in ME2, to the crucible plan Liara found out about on Mars, and NOT thanks to cerberus mind you.

Mass effect 2's story has no point of existence. Its amazing how we manage to accomplish absolutely nothing in the whole course of the game. Its just a story full of excuses to justify the filler, making both ashley and liara act out of character to support it. And lets not forget the "they are going to attack earth D:".

 

When an evil god like race comes to exterminate ALL life in the galaxy, the last thing you do is not find a way to stop it. It is just common sense, logic.  There simple is no other way. And still in Mass effect 2, I don't even get to ask these questions.

 

"Ashley, the reapers are coming, we have to work together, this is bigger than the alliance or cerberus. This is about the existence of out galaxy. You know this, you saw sovereing."

 

"Sorry shepard, I don't care about all that, I'm just gonna sit here doing nothing till the reapers come".

 

Ashley is turned into this child with a ridiculous denial syndrome. Oh well.

 

 

As for "our cell" I never even gave a damn in ME2. The reapers are humongously larger than cerberus, or the collectors. The collectors aren't even a threat to the galaxy in ME2, and just because the game says so, it won't make me believe it. Especially when everything else points to the contrary. Hell even ME2 points to the contrary, we never achieved anything assaulting them, besides risking our lives and the only story porgression happens thanks to liara in DLC. DLC...

 

Sorry about my grammar, I've never tried talking at this level of syntax and grammar. 

[Obadiah]

There is no Shepard without the Alliance AND Cerberus. As in many parts of this story he acts as a bridge between two ideas.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Really everything you said at this point is either hanging in the air, or never even mattered against the fight with the reapers. 

All those supposed technological advancements that may have been made, could have been applied, or may have been prove absolutely nothing.

 

Try placing the made up "Technological advancements" thanks to cerberus in ME2, to the crucible plan Liara found out about on Mars, and NOT thanks to cerberus mind you.

Mass effect 2's story has no point of existence. Its amazing how we manage to accomplish absolutely nothing in the whole course of the game. Its just a story full of excuses to justify the filler, making both ashley and liara act out of character to support it. And lets not forget the "they are going to attack earth D:".

 

When an evil god like race comes to exterminate ALL life in the galaxy, the last thing you do is not find a way to stop it. It is just common sense, logic.  There simple is no other way. And still in Mass effect 2, I don't even get to ask these questions.

 

"Ashley, the reapers are coming, we have to work together, this is bigger than the alliance or cerberus. This is about the existence of out galaxy. You know this, you saw sovereing."

 

"Sorry shepard, I don't care about all that, I'm just gonna sit here doing nothing till the reapers come".

 

Ashley is turned into this child with a ridiculous denial syndrome. Oh well.

 

 

As for "our cell" I never even gave a damn in ME2. The reapers are humongously larger than cerberus, or the collectors. The collectors aren't even a threat to the galaxy in ME2, and just because the game says so, it won't make me believe it. Especially when everything else points to the contrary. Hell even ME2 points to the contrary, we never achieved anything assaulting them, besides risking our lives and the only story porgression happens thanks to liara in DLC. DLC...

 

Sorry about my grammar, I've never tried talking at this level of syntax and grammar. 

 

Well, this sounds like you have a problem with the game then. There's not much more to say than you're angry with ME2, and I disagree. I think ME2 sufficiently advanced the story to a point where it was ME3's point to take it and advance it. And I think the failure was with ME3. Not ME2. 

[CptFalconPunch]

Well, this sounds like you have a problem with the game then. There's not much more to say than you're angry with ME2, and I disagree. I think ME2 sufficiently advanced the story to a point where it was ME3's point to take it and advance it. And I think the failure was with ME3. Not ME2. 

As I said before, I only have problems with the main story of ME2. But the rest of the game quarantines itself well enough from the main story, and is the reason why ME2 is my 4th favorite game of all time.

 

And the reason why I don't like having this conversation anymore is because you're calling me out on supposedly "vague and unclear points" when all you've done is point out... nothing. You didn't list anything to prove any point you made. You discard common sense, facts from previous games, continuity problems etc.

 

And no, the failure is well within ME2 as much as it is with the ending of ME3. If we're willing to completely discard common sense and defend everything with our biased opinions these discussions have no meaning. 

[KaiserShep]

I think ME2 sufficiently advanced the story to a point where it was ME3's point to take it and advance it. And I think the failure was with ME3. Not ME2. 

 

What ME2 does fairly effectively is open up the setting, but the overarching plot, which is to find a way to ultimately defeat the reapers themselves, literally goes nowhere. ME2's entire story basically leads up to stopping the reapers' other contingency plan, but an actual solution to the reapers themselves is something that's never given, and that can be blamed squarely on having the option to destroy the Collector base. Any real story potential the base had evaporated the moment Shepard blew it up, for the same reason why the Dark Ritual can never have an entire plot built on it in future Dragon Age games. What Mass Effect 2 should have done was not give Shepard this choice at all. Once you kill the Collectors, it can become a stepping stone to discovering all of their strengths and weaknesses. Whatever the plot of ME3 was going to be, it now had to be largely independent of ME2's story.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

As I said before, I only have problems with the main story of ME2. But the rest of the game quarantines itself well enough from the main story, and is the reason why ME2 is my 4th favorite game of all time.

 

And the reason why I don't like having this conversation anymore is because you're calling me out on supposedly "vague and unclear points" when all you've done is point out... nothing. You didn't list anything to prove any point you made. You discard common sense, facts from previous games, continuity problems etc.

 

And no, the failure is well within ME2 as much as it is with the ending of ME3. If we're willing to completely discard common sense and defend everything with our biased opinions these discussions have no meaning. 

 

I'm not making an argument or a claim. Hence why I'm calling you out without saying anything in return. Don't turn the argument onto me. 

 

And I've discarded nothing, except your angry insinuations that ME2 is bad in the gist of the story. You're making claims against me that are unsubstantiated and frankly irrelevant topics of which have not been brought up or discussed in this thread.

 

I don't know why we're coming to a 'common sense' argument here. What is the common sense? Your opinion? There's hardly anything you've said that would qualify as an appeal to common sense. You don't like my perspective, and you don't like the topic. That's all there is to this. I don't see the supposed failures you're bringing up narratively within ME2. You can name what you think is a failure, and I'll explain why I think otherwise. And I'm not talking about the ending of ME3. I'm talking about the entire game. ME3 has problems that are brazen and blatant. The ending is just the most visual problem with it.

[Bob from Accounting]

What Mass Effect 2 should have done was not give Shepard this choice at all. Once you kill the Collectors, it can become a stepping stone to discovering all of their strengths and weaknesses.

 

Really now? Do you have an idea that's an iota better than a super-duper magic weapon?

 

What 'strengths and weaknesses' are those? How are they developed and utilized? What are the themes tied to these devices? What are the potential outcomes? What's the climax of this plan? What are the consequences?

 

Can you answer any of these questions? Or is this just 'Shepard finds a super-duper Reaper gun and builds it and shoots the Reapers'? A story a three year old could come up with?
 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

What ME2 does fairly effectively is open up the setting, but the overarching plot, which is to find a way to ultimately defeat the reapers themselves, literally goes nowhere. ME2's entire story basically leads up to stopping the reapers' other contingency plan, but an actual solution to the reapers themselves is something that's never given, and that can be blamed squarely on having the option to destroy the Collector base. Any real story potential the base had evaporated the moment Shepard blew it up, for the same reason why the Dark Ritual can never have an entire plot built on it in future Dragon Age games. What Mass Effect 2 should have done was not give Shepard this choice at all. Once you kill the Collectors, it can become a stepping stone to discovering all of their strengths and weaknesses. Whatever the plot of ME3 was going to be, it now had to be largely independent of ME2's story.

 

Introduction of, say the Crucible in ME2 or more clear knowledge of how to defeat them would be welcome, though I wouldn't necessarily say that it must have happened. 

 

I will chalk the failure of the SM mechanic in ME2 as a flaw to it. It was something that altogether should have been held off until ME2. I do agree in terms of the choice, but I believe that the Collector plot was a sufficient advancement of the story. I have never understood why everyone thought the Collectors were terrible.