1765 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

Truth be told, if memory serves right, humanity fought turians to a standstill in First Contact War. Which I always considered BS and just another "humanity is special" thing, but there you go. I'm assuming that's a base for a lot of anthropocentric thinking.

Nah that was a minor skirmish over one small colony with minimum forces involved.
It ended before it escalated.

But yes, humanity being special is a bit daft but hey, it seems that the writers think that players have such fragile mindsets they couldn't countenance the fact that humans are pretty meh compared to the other races.

[Mordokai]

Nah that was a minor skirmish over one small colony with minimum forces involved.
It ended before it escalated.

 

Been some time since I played ME1 and even then, I rarely give the codex attention it deserves. So I'll admit you're likely right.

 

Seems like it's time to refresh me memory again

 

But yes, humanity being special is a bit daft but hey, it seems that the writers think that players have such fragile mindsets they couldn't countenance the fact that humans are pretty meh compared to the other races.

 

Not like these very boards provide ample evidence that they were, sadly, right.

[fhs33721]

1)Had the Asari revealed the artifact earlier, it would've/could've saved a lot of lives. All species will wonder why it wasn't revealed earlier. They will look at the Asari in a different way and most likely ignore them if they were to need help for some reason

 

2)Seeing the Asari in the trilogy, their military is pathetic. Humanity wouldn't have too much of a problem defeating the Asari in a one-on-one battle.

 

1) Possible but again not very likely. First off all after the war humanity isn't really in a condition to go to war again. It will take some time for them to recover. Enough time for the Asari to possibly use their diplomatic skills to mend whatever tension arose. Furthermore I doubt that even if they weren't able to, the other races will just idly sit by and let humans attack another council race for no good reason.

 

2) What? Based on what we see in the trilogy human military seems to be even more pathetic. With the exception of Shepard they literally fail everytime we see them on screen. Hell the very first mission in ME1 has you already watch a transmission in which a bunch of human soldiers fails completely at defending a colony. Then the human fleet gets its ass kicked by Sovereign until Shepard works her/his protagonist magic and magically renders Sovereign defenseless. In ME2 the ones on Horizon are unable to get a dammed cannon to work and then get beaten by a swarm of mildly lager than normal bugs. And in ME3 they somehow manage to fail even more. The N7 missions alone almost all have Shepard do something because Hacketts soldiers were apparently to stupid to do it.

So please enlighten me: Where do you see any evidence that the human military is in any way better than the Asari one?

[themikefest]

I doubt all the species will forget what the Asari did or rather did not do regardless of what diplomatic talks the Asari come up with. And if they were able to settle things with the governments of each species, the general public may not be as forgiving.

 

Would the Asari fared better if hundreds or possibly a thousand Geth attacked an Asari colony? The colony on Horizon were having trouble getting their defenses online and had no idea their colony would be attacked by bugs. Again, would the Asari of fared better against a surprised attack by the  seeker swarms on their own  colony?

 

Had humanity been fired upon by the Geth like the Destiny Ascension was, they would've fired back instead of doing nothing. In ME3 fighting the reapers over Earth, the Asari, just like in ME1, failed to fire at anything or at least are not seen firing at anything. The only species we see firing at the reapers are the Turians and humans

 

The fleet against Sovereign was led by an idiot named Hackett. Had that fool had the fleet fire on Sovereign from behind, the reaper would've most likely been destroyed without Shepard fighting the grasshopper. Too bad Rear Admiral Mikailovich wasn't in charge instead of Hackett.

[KrrKs]

Would Asari have fared better against a suprise Geth attack:

-A colony of the same size as Eden prime -> since they are all biotics, most likely.

 

Would they have fared better against seeker swarms:

-A similar sized colony as Horizon not. A bigger one (?) maybe

(Based on the assumption that Collector stasis fields and their seeker swarms have a maximum range and they attacked the main settlement on horizon.

A bigger colony (with more significant sized settlements) would likely be able to start a counter attack on the collector ship from outside this range)

 

 

Had humanity been fired upon by the Geth like the Destiny Ascension was, they would've fired back instead of doing nothing. In ME3 fighting the reapers over Earth, the Asari, just like in ME1, failed to fire at anything or at least are not seen firing at anything. The only species we see firing at the reapers are the Turians and humans

 

yeah, because big ass assari ships are only there to fight in big ass pillow fights...

 

Snarking aside, if you take a close look to the battle of the citadel (1st part, shortly after sovereign arrives),

you'll see that the Destiny Ascension does actually fire back!

 

Also, considering the starting events of ME3 I find the statement to pretty bold:

The battle of the citadel is a surprise attack coming from the relay,

the defenders fight back almost immediately, close the citade, and evacuate the council (and also send out distress signals)

 

Compare that to the reaper arrival in the solar system in ME3:

'Surprise' attack from the relay -> which is several times further away from earth than the citadel portal from the citadel

(Also 'surprise' in quotes because earth isn't even the first planet attacked, Khar'Shan is, but no one seems to be prepared even though the neighbour cluster is already under reaper control...

  -> So much for "humans would have ....", the story demands absurd amounts of stupidness from all sides)

We have no info on how the defenders (here most likely the fleets at arcturus and whatever was at pluto) fared, but we know that they did not send any kind of warning, neither scouts nor radio

 

Edit:

disregard the surprise attack part at the citadel battle, the council was warned. I derped again.

[von uber]

Snarking aside, if you take a close look to the battle of the citadel (1st part, shortly after sovereign arrives),

you'll see that the Destiny Ascension does actually fire back!

 

30s into this video:

 

 

The Destiny fires from its 'wing' guns on either side.

[fhs33721]

1)I doubt all the species will forget what the Asari did or rather did not do regardless of what diplomatic talks the Asari come up with. And if they were able to settle things with the governments of each species, the general public may not be as forgiving.

 

Would the Asari fared better if hundreds or possibly a thousand Geth attacked an Asari colony? The colony on Horizon were having trouble getting their defenses online and had no idea their colony would be attacked by bugs. Again, would the Asari of fared better against a surprised attack by the  seeker swarms on their own  colony?

 

Had humanity been fired upon by the Geth like the Destiny Ascension was, they would've fired back instead of doing nothing. In ME3 fighting the reapers over Earth, the Asari, just like in ME1, failed to fire at anything or at least are not seen firing at anything. The only species we see firing at the reapers are the Turians and humans

 

The fleet against Sovereign was led by an idiot named Hackett. Had that fool had the fleet fire on Sovereign from behind, the reaper would've most likely been destroyed without Shepard fighting the grasshopper. Too bad Rear Admiral Mikailovich wasn't in charge instead of Hackett.

1)Diplomacy works far better and faster than you seem to give it credit. Consider that Germany and Italy were fighting each other during World War I yet were allied already when World War II started.

 

For the rest: I never caimed that the Asari would have fared better in any of these situations. I just pointed out that the human military fails every single time they are on screen. Therefore there is zero evidence that the human soldiers are actaully more capable than the Asari ones. If they actaually won anything just once (which they didn't ) then your claims that they are better than the Asari would hold some truth. But as it is they are exactly the same losers as the Asari.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Truth be told, if memory serves right, humanity fought turians to a standstill in First Contact War. Which I always considered BS and just another "humanity is special" thing, but there you go. I'm assuming that's a base for a lot of anthropocentric thinking.

Humanity managed to fight a Turian scouting flotilla to a standstill. 

Then the Asari and Salarians came and said to the Turians "Hey, come on, let's not go curbstomping these primitives into the dirt."

[SporkFu]

Humanity managed to fight a Turian scouting flotilla to a standstill. 

Then the Asari and Salarians came and said to the Turians "Hey, come on, let's not go curbstomping these primitives into the dirt."

Ah, well said. After the Turian Bomb mission on Tuchanka, I'm thinking we got away pretty lucky from the first contact war. 

[Livi14]

I doubt all the species will forget what the Asari did or rather did not do regardless of what diplomatic talks the Asari come up with. And if they were able to settle things with the governments of each species, the general public may not be as forgiving.

 

Would the Asari fared better if hundreds or possibly a thousand Geth attacked an Asari colony? The colony on Horizon were having trouble getting their defenses online and had no idea their colony would be attacked by bugs. Again, would the Asari of fared better against a surprised attack by the  seeker swarms on their own  colony?

 

Had humanity been fired upon by the Geth like the Destiny Ascension was, they would've fired back instead of doing nothing. In ME3 fighting the reapers over Earth, the Asari, just like in ME1, failed to fire at anything or at least are not seen firing at anything. The only species we see firing at the reapers are the Turians and humans

 

The fleet against Sovereign was led by an idiot named Hackett. Had that fool had the fleet fire on Sovereign from behind, the reaper would've most likely been destroyed without Shepard fighting the grasshopper. Too bad Rear Admiral Mikailovich wasn't in charge instead of Hackett.

 

The asari are the only race that helped evacuating human colonies at the beginning of the war, they contribute more war assets than the Turians and the Salarians and they supported the crucible project without demanding anything in return. Now add Cerberus' crimes and Udina's coup. Good luck with your public opinion card.

Eden Prime, Armstrong cluster, Feros, most ME1 side missions, one collector cruiser harvesting several human colonies, Earth, ME3 side missions like Benning: Would the asari have fared better? Who knows. But it's nearly impossible to fare any worse than the Alliance.

Already explained

Alliance ships are attacking Sovereign from all sides, watch the video.

[themikefest]

Alliance ships are attacking Sovereign from all sides, watch the video.

Not from behind. Watch the video

[Farangbaa]

Ah this is new, instead of Liara hate, we're now doing Asari hate.

 

Splendid. 

 

Mixed in with a little 'conventional victory is possible'.

 

My goodness.

[CptFalconPunch]

Ah this is new, instead of Liara hate, we're now doing Asari hate.

 

Splendid. 

 

Mixed in with a little 'conventional victory is possible'.

 

My goodness.

 

Haters gonna hate. I hope that racism though stays within the "game" parameters.

[AlanC9]

But yes, humanity being special is a bit daft but hey, it seems that the writers think that players have such fragile mindsets they couldn't countenance the fact that humans are pretty meh compared to the other races.

This is one of the oldest tropes in SF. I imagine the writers were just following the stuff they were ripping off.

[AlanC9]

The fleet against Sovereign was led by an idiot named Hackett. Had that fool had the fleet fire on Sovereign from behind, the reaper would've most likely been destroyed without Shepard fighting the grasshopper. Too bad Rear Admiral Mikailovich wasn't in charge instead of Hackett.

I'm a little late to the thread. We're not actually trying to build serious arguments around the space battle cinematics, are we?

[themikefest]

I'm a little late to the thread. We're not actually trying to build serious arguments around the space battle cinematics, are we?

What argument do you believe we're building up? and why are you including yourself if you're late to the thread?

[Farangbaa]

What argument do you believe we're building up?

 

Conventional victory bs.

[themikefest]

Conventional victory bs.

So you're  AlanC9's spokesperson?

 

And since you brought up conventional victory. What would be wrong with that?

[AlanC9]

So you're  AlanC9's spokesperson?

And since you brought up conventional victory. What would be wrong with that?

 
I'm willing to delegate. Psychevore usually makes sense.
 
And the problem with conventional victory is that it doesn't make sense. At least, not in the actual MEU. One can make up a fantasy alternate MEU where it would work, but that's an empty exercise.

[AlanC9]

What argument do you believe we're building up? and why are you including yourself if you're late to the thread?

 

I have no idea what the argument is going to be, assuming there is one. I just found the method silly. 

 

And it's "we" as long as I'm in the thread. I suppose if I find the thread boring it'll go back to being "you."

[themikefest]

I'm willing to delegate. Psychevore usually makes sense.

 

And the problem with conventional victory is that it doesn't make sense. At least, not in the actual MEU. One can make up a fantasy alternate MEU where it would work, but that's an empty exercise.

Where did I say anything in my original post, that you quoted, about a conventional victory?

[dreamgazer]

Shiala being able to contain the cipher as well as the Thorian having the Cipher.

 

I don't think this is "poor" writing, exactly. Just lazy, convenient, and reliant on the vague "the plot demands" schlock magic people seem to dislike.

 

It works well enough at moving the story forward, though, and I do think the mystery behind it (and the Thorian) is remotely interesting.

[von uber]

The gobbing out the clones was odd though.

[AlanC9]

Where did I say anything in my original post, that you quoted, about a conventional victory?

 
You just mentioned it yourself:
 

And since you brought up conventional victory. What would be wrong with that?

Remember? (I'll edit it back into the post where I quoted you.) Not in the original post, but I wasn't replying to the original post.

If you didn't want to talk about conventional victory, why did you engage on the subject rather than just telling Psychevore that this was going OT?