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What do you think is the most poorly written scene in the ME series?


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#176
Malchat

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I'll take a more general view:

By far the weakest part of the story are the villains. Their motivations, their actions and their reactions to Shepard are just clunky and obtuse.

Whether it's Kai Leng, Illusive Man, the Collectors or indeed the Reapers themselves, they just don't make sense. Even Saren's narrative, perhaps the best villain of the trilogy, falls apart when looked at too closely.

Bioware seriously needs to treat its villains as beings with their own desires and arcs rather than plot devices to provide the player with challenge rooms.

Modifié par Malchat, 06 février 2014 - 11:11 .


#177
CronoDragoon

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...
I wouldn't say every explanation. For example, and I'm not promoting this, if the Reapers have some sort of non-linear view of time that could lead them to have goals that go beyond what humanity can truly understand.


That's not an explanation, though. That's a reason for not giving an explanation.

If the Reapers were Indoctrinated wouldn't their Reaper brains have turned to mush? Unless they are like the Collectors. I think a bigger question would be why the Catalyst would bother creating Reapers that have sentience if it was just going to force them into servitude or create the illusion that they have freewill anyway, it just seems a little unnecessary (also, according to the Leviathans didn't the Catalyst only gain Indoctrination capabilites after several cycles?).


I don't remember that quote from Leviathan. Anyway, Reapers don't have brains; they have data. Their minds are synthetic, created from deconstructive analysis of organic minds. The "organic slush" contained within Reapers is the DNA part of the Catalyst's "preserve life" campaign. But even if their minds were organic, why would Indoctrination turn their brains to mush? This didn't happen with Saren or TIM.

As for the rest, we're getting into speculative analysis here, but since the Catalyst is trying to preserve a "racemind" it is following his mandate to keep it as similar to what the organic minds were collectively. So long as they follow the cycles, why should the Catalyst care to eliminate any other facet of their intelligence?

There is another reason to create the Illusion that the Reapers are independent: to hide the Catalyst himself. Greatest trick, devil, etc.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 06 février 2014 - 03:13 .


#178
AlanC9

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Doesn't soft science fiction (which I think Mass Effect falls under) qualify as fantasy? Only instead of magic you have 'technology'?


I'd hate to try and draw a bright-line distinction there.

#179
AlanC9

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Malchat wrote...

I'll take a more general view:

By far the weakest part of the story are the villains. Their motivations, their actions and their reactions to Shepard are just clunky and obtuse.

Whether it's Kai Leng, Illusive Man, the Collectors or indeed the Reapers themselves, they just don't make sense. Even Saren's narrative, perhaps the best villain of the trilogy, falls apart when looked at too closely.

Bioware seriously needs to treat its villains as beings with their own desires and arcs rather than plot devices to provide the player with challenge rooms.


This has been a Bio problem for a while; maybe since HotU. (Didn't matter in KotOR because Dark Side.) You can still get a nasty argument going on the DA board about exactly what Loghain thought he was doing at Ostagar.

#180
Necroscope

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Any scene from ME3 aside from the Touchanka segment, a few scenes from Rannoch and the dialogue between Shep and Garrus on the Citadel varied from juvenile to outright embarrassing.

#181
Iakus

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AlanC9 wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Doesn't soft science fiction (which I think Mass Effect falls under) qualify as fantasy? Only instead of magic you have 'technology'?


I'd hate to try and draw a bright-line distinction there.


Especially since I've read fantasy where the magic system is more internally consistent than the "science" of Mass Effect.

#182
Mercedes-Benz

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The Catalyst one.

#183
Necroscope

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What about the space cuttlefish from Leviathan? The whole explanation of the Reapers origins was of the same level as the Catalyst scene.

#184
Anubis722

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Catalyst,Rannoch,Cerberus,Thane vs Kai Leng, aftermath of Thessia

Modifié par AnubisEgyptainLordofDeath, 06 février 2014 - 06:05 .


#185
teh DRUMPf!!

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Necroscope wrote...

What about the space cuttlefish from Leviathan? The whole explanation of the Reapers origins was of the same level as the Catalyst scene.


No it wasn't, unless you are referring to level of audience misunderstanding/obtusity surrounding it.

#186
Iakus

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

Necroscope wrote...

What about the space cuttlefish from Leviathan? The whole explanation of the Reapers origins was of the same level as the Catalyst scene.


No it wasn't, unless you are referring to level of audience misunderstanding/obtusity surrounding it.


Yep, that stupid audience just doesn't get it. Image IPB

#187
CronoDragoon

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iakus wrote...
Yep, that stupid audience just doesn't get it. Image IPB


Certain members of the audience who happened to be stupid did not get it.

#188
Derpy

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Ending was the worse and Liara scenes because I just hate looking at that blue thing.

#189
SNascimento

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One scene in particular that I dislike is after Thesia, when the crew meets in the war room to discuss what to do next. It felt terrible, like a high school class.

Modifié par SNascimento, 06 février 2014 - 05:57 .


#190
ImaginaryMatter

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

Necroscope wrote...

What about the space cuttlefish from Leviathan? The whole explanation of the Reapers origins was of the same level as the Catalyst scene.


No it wasn't, unless you are referring to level of audience misunderstanding/obtusity surrounding it.


Can I say I 'm pretty sure I knew exactly what the Leviathan's were talking about but I found it all very contrived?

#191
AlanC9

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CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
Yep, that stupid audience just doesn't get it. Image IPB


Certain members of the audience who happened to be stupid did not get it.


Plus some who merely pretend to not get it for rhetorical purposes.

Honestly, I thought ME3 did about as well with the incoherent mess ME1 left for the series as they could have done.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 février 2014 - 06:08 .


#192
teh DRUMPf!!

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iakus wrote...
Yep, that stupid audience just doesn't get it. Image IPB



Well if you truly "get it," then my remark should not bother you in the first place.

CronoDragoon didn't take offense.

That you assumed yourself to be part of the "stupid audience" (your words) says it all.

#193
Necroscope

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"Contrived" is a light word to describe something so blatantly absurd that moreover manages to contradict itself on so many levels.

And yes, I know exactly what the cuttlefish was talking about.

#194
teh DRUMPf!!

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...


Can I say I 'm pretty sure I knew exactly what the Leviathan's were talking about but I found it all very contrived?


Sure. Image IPB

#195
teh DRUMPf!!

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Necroscope wrote...

"Contrived" is a light word to describe something so blatantly absurd that moreover manages to contradict itself on so many levels.

And yes, I know exactly what the cuttlefish was talking about.


No you don't. It doesn't contradict itself.

#196
AlanC9

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Looks like it's on. Necroscope, what have you got?

#197
Necroscope

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

Necroscope wrote...

"Contrived" is a light word to describe something so blatantly absurd that moreover manages to contradict itself on so many levels.

And yes, I know exactly what the cuttlefish was talking about.


No you don't. It doesn't contradict itself.

Yes I am. Yes it does.

Really want to play this kindergarten game?

#198
teh DRUMPf!!

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Necroscope wrote...

Yes I am. Yes it does.

Really want to play this kindergarten game?



All I know is that you're alledging something false -- there's nothing "contradictory" in Leviathan DLC. Hence why I'm calling you out on it, and by extension, on your understanding of that part of the story. What's more telling is your refusal to make your point clear despite two clear opportunities to do so. If you will not do it, I have nothing more to say to you, and no reason to lend credence to the notion that I'm utimately wrong about you not getting it.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 06 février 2014 - 06:28 .


#199
Necroscope

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There's been tons of posts and topics on the matter on these forums alone - nothing productive came out of them afaik. I really don't feel like going through this all over again just because another apologist dangles "It's 2 deep 4 you!".

#200
CronoDragoon

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Necroscope wrote...

There's been tons of posts and topics on the matter on these forums alone - nothing productive came out of them afaik. I really don't feel like going through this all over again just because another apologist dangles "It's 2 deep 4 you!".


I don't remember tons of topics about contradictions in Leviathan. I'm no apologist; would you mind just listing whatever comes to mind?