46 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

That German Saren wins my vote for best villain voice

[ruggly]

Don't forget Sovereign in German.

But damn, that Saren...

[Lawrence0294]

Zazzerka wrote...

Obligatory German Saren

Jesus, he sounds friendly

[Lawrence0294]

 The Leviathans are pretty badass in German too

[GimmeDaGun]

Lawrence0294 wrote...

 The Leviathans are pretty badass in German too

Sounds better than the original. But Shepard... well... I don't know.

I'm planning to learn German, so I'm planning to download the German versions of ME and The Witcher for learning purposes. 


Unfortunately there's no Hungarian dub available for ME. It's not a problem for me though, but many who don't speak English miss it here. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 15 février 2014 - 04:14 .

[NRieh]

the word "du" and not "sie" (both translates as "you"). in the german version, shepard even addresses his/her lover like it is an unfimiliar person, you just met at the train station. this is really awkward and annoying

I hear you. Russian localization suffers from the same thing.

My guess is that sometimes it's necessary to make a 'neutral' version for a dialogue that can possibly share lines between romance-non-romance versions of PT. So they prefer a 'polite' version, instead of less formal one. That's simply because in English there is no difference - it's always just 'you', while in German it potentially splits into 'Sie-Du', and in Russian they need to deal with polite 'Vy' - 'ty' ('Вы'-'ты'). In latter case it may get even worse - we've got gender-sensitive endings for adjectives and verbs, so English 'I should go' should be either translated in a crazy 'neutral' manner or take two different lines(male and female).

I guess, it's needless to say which way is cheaper...

Modifié par Nrieh, 15 février 2014 - 08:07 .

[78stonewobble]

Jinx1720 wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Well, you Germans dub over everything, even movies and TV-shows and have been doing so for ages so the methodology is well developed and the talent pool is large. 

I used to watch a lot of movies and anime in German as a kid and the voice-work was always top notch.

I wouldn't expect anything less for games.

Out of couriosity - what background do you have? You are saying,you germans, not including yourself? I am just wondering why somebody not from Germany, Austria or Switzerland would watch it in this language?

Apart from that, yes, we do have a long tradition and a lot of stuff is decent, but do not make the mistake and watch translated american soaps and sitcoms - funny in the original version, I can't stand the localized variant.

As to us in Denmark, which is small country just adjacent to Germany the situation of the TV market of the 80's and early nineties were 1 national broadcast channel in danish, which became 2 around 88-89. Whereas Germany had 3 or 4 channels maybe that we could usually receive and maybe some norwegian and swedish tv as well. If someone was lucky and had a satelite dish we might have been able to see a few UK or more international channels too. 

So basically a lot of people got quite used to watching ie. german tv.

My first viewing of star wars was in german   


It was a bit of a shame actually. I think my understanding of german language was better when I was of the age of 6 to 10 and it regressed completely til the time we had it in school.

[Bizantura]

I am not a native english speaker but I shudder from the idea of a ME in my native language. Luckely it doesn't even exist so the offer is allways english. I do think now you can choose freely on steam or origin which language you want. A plus if you want to train foreign languages. I might try german in the future.

[katamuro]

Have to say german versions of Saren and Sovereign sound so badass. but femshep was just wrong. Maleshep was ok in german. then again I have only the barest understanding of german so maybe to a native speaker they sound better.

[Dr_Extrem]

katamuro wrote...

Have to say german versions of Saren and Sovereign sound so badass. but femshep was just wrong. Maleshep was ok in german. then again I have only the barest understanding of german so maybe to a native speaker they sound better.

the voice actors of saren and sovereign did use their original voices (without coloration) ... thats what we germans sound like when nobody else is listening to us.


no seriously ... the german vo is (imho) too perfect (no mumbling, perfect pronunciation, lack of character etc.) and it sounds like the script-writer was not a native speaker. everybody uses informal language .. it is like someone is talking to a public servant and not to a comrade/loved person.

it fits when you are talking to dr. chakwas or udina ... but liara or garrus? - just wrong and awkward ... especially after having sex with one of them.

[katamuro]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

katamuro wrote...

Have to say german versions of Saren and Sovereign sound so badass. but femshep was just wrong. Maleshep was ok in german. then again I have only the barest understanding of german so maybe to a native speaker they sound better.

the voice actors of saren and sovereign did use their original voices (without coloration) ... thats what we germans sound like when nobody else is listening to us.


no seriously ... the german vo is (imho) too perfect (no mumbling, perfect pronunciation, lack of character etc.) and it sounds like the script-writer was not a native speaker. everybody uses informal language .. it is like someone is talking to a public servant and not to a comrade/loved person.

it fits when you are talking to dr. chakwas or udina ... but liara or garrus? - just wrong and awkward ... especially after having sex with one of them.

I guess that is the downside when translating to a language where there are different forms of adress. English can be formal but mostly it is accepted to talk normally to all kinds of people.

[Dr_Extrem]

katamuro wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

katamuro wrote...

Have to say german versions of Saren and Sovereign sound so badass. but femshep was just wrong. Maleshep was ok in german. then again I have only the barest understanding of german so maybe to a native speaker they sound better.

the voice actors of saren and sovereign did use their original voices (without coloration) ... thats what we germans sound like when nobody else is listening to us.


no seriously ... the german vo is (imho) too perfect (no mumbling, perfect pronunciation, lack of character etc.) and it sounds like the script-writer was not a native speaker. everybody uses informal language .. it is like someone is talking to a public servant and not to a comrade/loved person.

it fits when you are talking to dr. chakwas or udina ... but liara or garrus? - just wrong and awkward ... especially after having sex with one of them.

I guess that is the downside when translating to a language where there are different forms of adress. English can be formal but mostly it is accepted to talk normally to all kinds of people.

i have to admit ... mass effect stands out. normally, the localisations are different and the tone is right.

the mass effect series is one of the few, where i had this kind of problem.


off course there are other games, where the translation is really horrible.

starlacer in example stands out. several characters are spoken by the same person, who is only using a different accent. have you ever heard a german, using a fake south american accent? ... your ears start to bleed after a few words - especiall, when the same voice actor is used for another character (in the same scene), who is from japan. in moments like that, i am torn between laughing and weeping.

on the other hand, the wing commander series had maybe the best voice over possible. every character had the perfect voice actor, there was character, emotions (angel had a really good french accent) - it was perfect.

warcraft 2 made me turn off the unit-sounds ... it got better with starcraft though.


the main reason i like playing the original versions (as long as i understand the language) is, that linguistic jokes are not lost in translation. its the same with books. imo, it is not possible to read terry pratchett in german, i tried it - impossible. half the jokes do not work anymore. when i read the english version of the book, i had tears in my eyes and nearly peed my pants laughing.

the fact that it keeps my english on an acceptable level is just a bonus.

[Lee T]

I played ME1 and ME2 in french and in english. I like both voices set equally. If I really had to point the differences I'd say that :
1) I prefer french male Shep over english male Shep (Mark Meer sounds wooden and stilted in comparison) and I prefer english female Shep over french femal Shep (Jennifer Hale simply nailed it).
2) I prefer the french Illusive Man to Martin Sheen. As far as I'm concerned Martin Sheen sounds like he's cruising in his comfort zone, never creepy enough, never threatening enough, never mysterious enough, never what I expected from such a great actor. It felt like the voice director never dared to tell him "Come on, you're Martin Sheen, you can do better than that".

[NRieh]

i have to admit ... mass effect stands out. normally, the localisations are different and the tone is right.

the mass effect series is one of the few, where i had this kind of problem.

As I said - that's the dark side of the 'open' PC. Shep can be both male and female, Shep can have all sorts of relations (love, hate, neutral, formal etc). Modern English is a perfect language for that game, because a single line can usually match each and every case.

If initial script line is not a variable, nothing can be done with it. It's not because translating person was a jerk, it's because he had only one option for that line, and he had to pick something more or less neutral.

Original scripts, however, fully support male-female line checks (100% true for ME2& ME3, I've never had a chance to see ME1 dialogue structure close). So, using 'polite' and 'formal' phrases in order to avoid writing two lines for 'gender-sensitive' languages (which are many), is a bad thing.

TLDR: It's impossible to pick the 'proper' manner of addressing someone, where something neutral and static was used in English version. Both 'formal' and 'informal' version might not match someone's PT. But using 'formal' language to avoid gender endings and constructions is a bad idea (which is not a rare thing, unfortunately).

[Sion1138]

Jinx1720 wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Well, you Germans dub over everything, even movies and TV-shows and have been doing so for ages so the methodology is well developed and the talent pool is large. 

I used to watch a lot of movies and anime in German as a kid and the voice-work was always top notch.

I wouldn't expect anything less for games.

Out of couriosity - what background do you have? You are saying,you germans, not including yourself? I am just wondering why somebody not from Germany, Austria or Switzerland would watch it in this language?

Apart from that, yes, we do have a long tradition and a lot of stuff is decent, but do not make the mistake and watch translated american soaps and sitcoms - funny in the original version, I can't stand the localized variant.

Lived for three years in Austria at a very young age (6 - 9), watched German TV exclusively during that time and for some time after I moved back home.

I grew up on German voiced cartoons.

[Dr_Extrem]

Nrieh wrote...

i have to admit ... mass effect stands out. normally, the localisations are different and the tone is right.

the mass effect series is one of the few, where i had this kind of problem.

As I said - that's the dark side of the 'open' PC. Shep can be both male and female, Shep can have all sorts of relations (love, hate, neutral, formal etc). Modern English is a perfect language for that game, because a single line can usually match each and every case.

If initial script line is not a variable, nothing can be done with it. It's not because translating person was a jerk, it's because he had only one option for that line, and he had to pick something more or less neutral.

Original scripts, however, fully support male-female line checks (100% true for ME2& ME3, I've never had a chance to see ME1 dialogue structure close). So, using 'polite' and 'formal' phrases in order to avoid writing two lines for 'gender-sensitive' languages (which are many), is a bad thing.

TLDR: It's impossible to pick the 'proper' manner of addressing someone, where something neutral and static was used in English version. Both 'formal' and 'informal' version might not match someone's PT. But using 'formal' language to avoid gender endings and constructions is a bad idea (which is not a rare thing, unfortunately).

it is absolutely possible.

games like wing commander made it nearly perfect.

it is very simple ... you decide on wether to use du or sie depending on the status of your relationship ...


lets take garrus as an example.

in me1, garrus becomes either your close ally or you simply do not pick him up. if you pick him up, it is logical to use "du" after your become a spectre (at this point, you already got close enough to skip the formal language)

in me2, you can either be on a "du"-base with him (when you picked him up in me1) or still on a "sie"-base if you left him out. BUT ... after you saved garrus and patched him up, "sie" is history.
you would not even have to tweak the game or add a script for using different lines, because the mechanism already exists. if you did not pick up garrus in me1, shepard introduces him/herself to garrus in a totally different way.


like i wrote before ... many other games made it right .. they may had other problems or horrible voice actors but they got the "du-sie"-thing right.

[NRieh]

in me2, you can either be on a "du"-base with him (when you picked him up in me1) or still on a "sie"-base if you left him out. BUT ... after you saved garrus and patched him up, "sie" is history.

What you say is what you like to see for your Shepard, actually. )) I mean, some paragon spacer-war heroes can prefer 'Sie' or title even as a way to address his\\her lover right before hitting the Collector's base. So, they are going to have same amount of issues with your 'proper' solution.

As I said - it's a trap. )

it is very simple ... you decide on wether to use du or sie depending on the status of your relationship ...

No, it's not simple. Once again. A lot of dialogues SHARE lines between romance, friendship, hatered or formal relations. E.g. femShep talks to Steve with same words as romancing Shepard most of the times, Liara's scenes are 90% same for femShep that romances Alenko. All those lines are _constants_. Game does not check for anything, it simply shows you a line with the proper ID. The only exception is gender. Game constantly checks for 'female' version of a line, and if it finds none, it gives 'male' one. It works fine for all the English-speaking femSheps, which are lucky to know nothing of gender endings for verbs and adjectives (or articles).

you would not even have to tweak the game or add a script for using different lines, because the mechanism already exists. if you did not pick up garrus in me1, shepard introduces him/herself to garrus in a totally different way.

I'm too lazy to seek out proper lines in tlk XML at the moment, but just have in mind, that 'sensitive' lines ( variables) do not usually make all the dialogue. Like "Constant-constant-variable-constant". Sometimes trigger logic is complex, iike Horizon talk, where game checks for who survived, gender and romance.

Many lines are shared between genders and romance-non-romance states. So, if you make 'new Shepard' welcome Garrus as 'Sie', but the very next line will be shared one you'll get a very strange dialogue, because it will be followed by 'Du' right away...

many other games made it right .. they may had other problems or horrible voice actors but they got the "du-sie"-thing right.

Are you certain, that all those games had no preset player character with preset (or insignificant) relations? I mean, it's not that hard to translate, let's say, Jedi Knight or Metal Gear Solid - all the characters and relations are known from the start, same as player character's gender.

[Dr_Extrem]

in the case of informal speach, sie is not gender specific.

i am nearly always a paragon spacer warhero - but i would not use informal articles on my comrads, brothers in arms - it does not fit.

same goes when you are in an active relationship.


in wing commander, the people acted differently depending on the dialogue choices. it worked and that was 20 years ago. you could get engaged with other pilots, bug maniac etc.

it is not impossible or hard to acheave .. you just need the right person to translate the script and a little freedom.

[NRieh]

in wing commander, the people acted differently depending on the dialogue choices.

With all my eternal love for WC series - it's not even remotely close! If you bother to count the total amount of voiced lines, of course.

Anyway, my point was, that it's technically impossible to translate a constant as anything other than constant. And HUGE amount of lines in both ME2 and ME3 are actually constants (I'm yet to see a decompiled ME1 script). That's how it is.

Yes, sometimes translations are flowed because someone had not enough time or money (or both), but as I already did my best to explain - that's not the only reason.

ME-like games (which are not that many, in fact) are incredibly hard to translate. Not because of text itself (it's rather primitive), but because of multiple issues, that only show up in translation (and those may vary greatly between languages).

it is not impossible or hard to acheave .. you just need the right person to translate the script and a little freedom.

Do you want me to link you a piece of script, huh? I think you don't even need to look at those ~8mb of plain xml text (text + basic tags, like ID, that's for ME2), I could offer you relatively small 'Horizon' scene. Or a 'hospital talk' for Kaidan - Ashley (since we're in ME3 forum) plus prologue. You've got all the freedom, and you act like 'the right person'. Wanna give it a try? Wanna see how 'not hard' it is?

[katamuro]

Nrieh wrote...

in wing commander, the people acted differently depending on the dialogue choices.

With all my eternal love for WC series - it's not even remotely close! If you bother to count the total amount of voiced lines, of course.

Anyway, my point was, that it's technically impossible to translate a constant as anything other than constant. And HUGE amount of lines in both ME2 and ME3 are actually constants (I'm yet to see a decompiled ME1 script). That's how it is.

Yes, sometimes translations are flowed because someone had not enough time or money (or both), but as I already did my best to explain - that's not the only reason.

ME-like games (which are not that many, in fact) are incredibly hard to translate. Not because of text itself (it's rather primitive), but because of multiple issues, that only show up in translation (and those may vary greatly between languages).

it is not impossible or hard to acheave .. you just need the right person to translate the script and a little freedom.

Do you want me to link you a piece of script, huh? I think you don't even need to look at those ~8mb of plain xml text (text + basic tags, like ID, that's for ME2), I could offer you relatively small 'Horizon' scene. Or a 'hospital talk' for Kaidan - Ashley (since we're in ME3 forum) plus prologue. You've got all the freedom, and you act like 'the right person'. Wanna give it a try? Wanna see how 'not hard' it is?

Translating anything accurately is hard. Even a few lines of dialogue to another person from one language you know really well to another one
Case in point English to russian. first of all the structure of the sentances is different, then there is the way some of the english words only make sense if you say that together with other ones. In russian many words are standalone and they depend less on the whole sentance. at the same time the grammatic rules of russian are horribly complicated compared to english and add to that feminine, masculine and neutral genders and all you get is one big mess. Its hard to impart the meaning without changing how its said.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

cap and gown wrote...

DesioPL wrote...

Wrex in Poland language... SEEMS REALLY LEGIT!

Even though I don't know Polish, the voices seemed rather good. (I did pick up on Wrex swearing quite a bit. That is if Polish swear words are similar to Russian ones. What I found most interesting is the lip synching. Unlike movie dubs where the VO and the lips are often totally out of synch, in this case I could detect no such synchronization problems. I wonder what technology they use to move an NPC's lips? Whatever it was, it was a lot better than what you see in Skyrim.

Pretty Damn good. IMO, Wrex looks a lot more like a Bounty Hunter and intimidating in that.

CptData wrote...

katamuro wrote...

I once
tried a russian voiced version of ME1 and after around 10 minutes I
quit, it was just not at all what I wanted. The voice over work was not
bad at all, quite good actually generally by russian language variants
that I have seen but it was still not the same.

Sometimes
even names.

Yah. I saw VGA subtitled on Portuguese the other day and Garrus=Garreth. I was like WHAT THE HELL?

CptData wrote...

I actually start to prefer watching shows
(if at all) in English. Mostly because I can understand it, but also
'cause German dubs have a tendency to ignore puns & co of the
original language. So yeah ... I play ME in English only.

Again, take Portuguese subtitles. The puns are all extinct. They don't really make sense when *fully* translated

Zazzerka wrote...

Obligatory German Saren

This  voice would fit more with a Reaper

ruggly wrote...

Don't forget Sovereign in German.

But damn, that Saren...

I couldn't notice the difference between English and German there, TBH... Except, of course, the language...

Lawrence0294 wrote...

 The Leviathans are pretty badass in German too

No doubt better than the original

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, and look at this... No offense, but the Itallian VA suck... www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par MegaIllusiveMan, 17 février 2014 - 10:14 .

[NRieh]

at the same time the grammatic rules of russian are horribly complicated compared to english and add to that feminine, masculine and neutral genders and all you get is one big mess.

I don't think neutral gender adds to the problem. There is no neutShep (for now)
Other than this - yes, that's tricky.

Nothing can excuse 'Captain Shepard', though. That's one of the worst things about Russian ME, and it was a very stupid thing to do.
'Commander Shepard' is a set phrase, it's an icon! It's like 'translating' 'Führer' into 'chief' or calling Beowulf 'tsar'.