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Could Bioware Lie About ME4? Could Shepard be the main character again?

Débuté par maaaad365 , févr. 05 2014 10:34

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#226
CronoDragoon
Posté 08 février 2014 - 05:57

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StreetMagic wrote...

If I wanted my favorite characters to have the "most" screentime, I would have told you so. I'm quite happy with how ME2 worked out. They catered to different tastes/stories/archetypes fairly equally there.


So what gets cut from ME3 to make room for your expanded ME2 roles?

#227
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 05:57

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EntropicAngel wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Fair enough (about the OP.. it was hard to tell).

As for backstabbing.. I'm not sure I want to use that word either. Lets just call it shorthand. I'd rather say someone over there has ADHD. These are THEIR characters. Not mine. They just forgot about them. They can't really backstab something they created. My only role is to just expect followthrough.

edit: If you're going to try to convince me to get over it though, it's not going to happen. You shouldn't waste your time. The only thing I should do is walk away entirely. But I'm not going to enjoy Mass Effect in a different way.


I'm trying to convince "you" (no one in particular) to get over feeling betrayed, because that's not what happened. They made something "you" didn't like. That happens sometimes. Happens to all of us.

I have no problem with people not liking it (most of the people on my FL disliked it, or outright hated it), just when people claim it's personal.


It is personal. Most of the connections people experience are tied into emotions, and what they value aethetically or philosophically. Along with other intangibles. The only people who are not affected are like those really cerebral nerds who belong on a Kraftwerk album cover. The kind of people who only value spreadsheeting and logical cohesion in plots.. But there's a whole lot of us who interpret the experience differently. And when it's gone, it's personal.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 08 février 2014 - 05:58 .

#228
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:02

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CronoDragoon wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

If I wanted my favorite characters to have the "most" screentime, I would have told you so. I'm quite happy with how ME2 worked out. They catered to different tastes/stories/archetypes fairly equally there.


So what gets cut from ME3 to make room for your expanded ME2 roles?


Why do you think in terms of cuts? This game just needed more time. Like I said earlier, look what they can accomplish with a year of DLC work.

I'm against the whole DLC philosophy myself.. but that's another story. There used to be a time when that year would have been alotted to the actual game. Now people develop with "just good enough" in mind, and try to compensate with DLC later. I'm here to say it didn't work for me.

I know Jack was considered originally though. Not sure what the real story is on that. I heard that Tali fans got her kicked off (and Jack and Tali's own writer, Patrick Weekes. Sucks when a character can't even get an advocate from their writer). I suspect the original Thessia plot (with Liara's possible death) might left an opening for her too. Not sure.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 08 février 2014 - 06:05 .

#229
dreamgazer
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:07

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StreetMagic wrote...


I know Jack was considered originally though. Not sure what the real story is on that. I heard that Tali fans got her kicked off (and Jack and Tali's own writer, Patrick Weekes. Sucks when a character can't even get an advocate from their writer). I suspect the original Thessia plot (with Liara's possible death) might left an opening for her too. Not sure.


Where are you getting this from?

#230
CronoDragoon
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:07

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StreetMagic wrote...
Why do you think in terms of cuts? This game just needed more time. Like I said earlier, look what they can accomplish with a year of DLC work.


Because resources are limited in the real world. Know what got sacrificed for more focus on characters in ME2? An actual plot. That's called a cut. Keep in mind I love ME2, but I'm also realistic. DLC makes the company money aside from the base game, which is why that content can be made in the first place.

I'm against the whole DLC philosophy myself.. but that's another story. There used to be a time when that year would have been alotted to the actual game. Now people develop with "just good enough" in mind, and try to compensate with DLC later.


Evidence?

I know Jack was considered originally though. Not sure what the real story is on that. I heard that Tali fans got her kicked off. I suspect the original Thessia plot (with Liara's possible death) might left an opening for her too. Not sure.


Jack has less to do with the plot than Tali, so it sounds to me like they made the right choice.

#231
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:10

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StreetMagic wrote...

It is personal. Most of the connections people experience are tied into emotions, and what they value aethetically or philosophically. Along with other intangibles. The only people who are not affected are like those really cerebral nerds who belong on a Kraftwerk album cover. The kind of people who only value spreadsheeting and logical cohesion in plots.. But there's a whole lot of us who interpret the experience differently. And when it's gone, it's personal.


Just because one feels hurt doesn't mean they have to blame others. There's a difference.

#232
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:11

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dreamgazer wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...


I know Jack was considered originally though. Not sure what the real story is on that. I heard that Tali fans got her kicked off (and Jack and Tali's own writer, Patrick Weekes. Sucks when a character can't even get an advocate from their writer). I suspect the original Thessia plot (with Liara's possible death) might left an opening for her too. Not sure.


Where are you getting this from?


I never read it from any authoritative source. Just ran across it a few times, but like I said... "Not sure". I think the circumstances line up though. Weekes stepped in and pushed for Tali's inclusion when they decided against it. And for some odd reason, Jack got a visual revamp just like the VS. And she's in the artbook for the squad, while Tali isn't. Something changed.

#233
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:11

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EntropicAngel wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

It is personal. Most of the connections people experience are tied into emotions, and what they value aethetically or philosophically. Along with other intangibles. The only people who are not affected are like those really cerebral nerds who belong on a Kraftwerk album cover. The kind of people who only value spreadsheeting and logical cohesion in plots.. But there's a whole lot of us who interpret the experience differently. And when it's gone, it's personal.


Just because one feels hurt doesn't mean they have to blame others. There's a difference.


**** that. I blame others. And I'm fine with it.

#234
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:17

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StreetMagic wrote...

**** that. I blame others. And I'm fine with it.


Good luck with that.

#235
CronoDragoon
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:17

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StreetMagic wrote...

**** that. I blame others. And I'm fine with it.


Well I'm fine with the amount of screentime the ME2 characters got, and don't care if you're hurt by it. If enough people agree with me, then your opinion doesn't matter. Because screw others, right?

#236
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:19

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CronoDragoon wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

**** that. I blame others. And I'm fine with it.


Well I'm fine with the amount of screentime the ME2 characters got, and don't care if you're hurt by it. If enough people agree with me, then your opinion doesn't matter. Because screw others, right?


Yes. I've known this all along. I already said this a few posts back. Anyone happy with this is basically saying "I got mine". It's the American way.

Not sure why it works that way though. We're all fans, all invest the same cash, and yet some have more buying power. *shrug*

EntropicAngel wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

**** that. I blame others. And I'm fine with it.


Good luck with that.


I don't need luck. I just embrace the bitterness. Not the end of the world. It goes away sooner or later.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 08 février 2014 - 06:20 .

#237
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:22

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StreetMagic wrote...

I don't need luck. I just embrace the bitterness. Not the end of the world. It goes away sooner or later.


Bitterness doesn't go away if you embrace it, friend. it consumes you. personal experience. But whatever.

#238
dreamgazer
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:24

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My bitterness towards ME3's treatment of Kelly Chambers will stay with me until the day I die.

#239
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:25

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EntropicAngel wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't need luck. I just embrace the bitterness. Not the end of the world. It goes away sooner or later.


Bitterness doesn't go away if you embrace it, friend. it consumes you. personal experience. But whatever.


Good advice, I suppose. If it makes you happy, I won't always be vocal about it. I just have too much time to waste thinking about it, atm.

#240
CronoDragoon
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:27

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StreetMagic wrote...
Yes. I've known this all along. I already said this a few posts back. Anyone happy with this is basically saying "I got mine". It's the American way.


Not just the American way, that's how it always works. Besides that, this isn't any more important than pixel screentime in a videogame.

Not sure why it works that way though. We're all fans, all invest the same cash, and yet some have more buying power. *shrug*



Right, because the amount of Jack fans and Tali fans are equal.

But besides that, Bioware doesn't owe you Jack screentime. They can choose whatever amount they want, and the most you can do is lament the limitations on a character you like. But it's personal preference, not legitimate criticism.

Edit: And just to be fair, that would also apply if Jack got in and Tali didn't.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 08 février 2014 - 06:29 .

#241
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:29

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CronoDragoon wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...
Yes. I've known this all along. I already said this a few posts back. Anyone happy with this is basically saying "I got mine". It's the American way.


Not just the American way, that's how it always works. Besides that, this isn't any more important than pixel screentime in a videogame.

Not sure why it works that way though. We're all fans, all invest the same cash, and yet some have more buying power. *shrug*



Right, because the amount of Jack fans and Tali fans are equal.

But besides that, Bioware doesn't owe you Jack screentime. They can choose whatever amount they want, and the most you can do is lament the limitations on a character you like. But it's personal preference, not legitimate criticism.


See, now you're learning. Stop conversing and just be a dick.

I already know you've "won", dude. For what it's worth. The difference with me is I never knew there was a contest in the first place.

#242
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:33

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StreetMagic wrote...

Good advice, I suppose. If it makes you happy, I won't always be vocal about it. I just have too much time to waste thinking about it, atm.


I don't mind people being vocal as long as they don't mind me being vocal too. it's a two-way street :P

#243
CronoDragoon
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:34

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StreetMagic wrote...
See, now you're learning. Stop conversing and just be a dick.


I am conversing, you just aren't listening. Since the desire for which characters get screen time comes down to personal preference, there's no reason for me to want you to get what you want if it gets me less of what I want. This isn't a matter of social justice.

I already know you've "won", dude. For what it's worth. The difference with me is I never knew there was a contest in the first place.


Well I didn't either since I did a media blackout for ME3. Though I was glad Tali got in instead of Jack, it's not like I gloated about it or anything. I was just happy one of my favorite characters got in.

#244
dreamgazer
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:36

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Wait, was the decision between Tali or Jack really a thing?

All I know is Weekes petitioned for Tali's inclusion, which got her in as a squadmate by the skin of her teeth.

#245
CronoDragoon
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:37

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dreamgazer wrote...

Wait, was the decision between Tali or Jack really a thing?

All I know is Weekes petitioned for Tali's inclusion, which got her in as a squadmate by the skin of her teeth.


I have no idea. I've just been rolling with StreetMagic's assumption. I'd like to think that Miranda would get in before Jack though, sheerly through plot relevance.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 08 février 2014 - 06:37 .

#246
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:40

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I would have preferred more Jack personally, but I roll with what Bioware gives us.

#247
dreamgazer
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:43

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EntropicAngel wrote...

I would have preferred more Jack personally, but I roll with what Bioware gives us.


Same here, but I understand the logic behind choosing a fundamental, popular character from the first and second games above one with middling popularity from only the second.

Alas, the Citadel delivered the goods.  Arguably the best character content in that DLC.  CidShep was happy.

#248
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:45

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dreamgazer wrote...

Same here, but I understand the logic behind choosing a fundamental, popular character from the first and second games above one with middling popularity from only the second.

Alas, the Citadel delivered the goods.  Arguably the best character content in that DLC.  CidShep was happy.


For jack? I'm trying to remember any significant Jack content but I can't.

#249
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Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:46

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CronoDragoon wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...
See, now you're learning. Stop conversing and just be a dick.


I am conversing, you just aren't listening. Since the desire for which characters get screen time comes down to personal preference, there's no reason for me to want you to get what you want if it gets me less of what I want. This isn't a matter of social justice.

I already know you've "won", dude. For what it's worth. The difference with me is I never knew there was a contest in the first place.


Well I didn't either since I did a media blackout for ME3. Though I was glad Tali got in instead of Jack, it's not like I gloated about it or anything. I was just happy one of my favorite characters got in.


Social justice? That's a bit much.

Anyways, let converse again, shall we? I never wanted anyone to get less of anything. You already asked me about that. I hold up ME2 as the right way to cater to different player types. They made a big ship and had us sort it out on our own. Works for me.

As for ME3, time constraints are the main enemy. I only blame them insofar as when they are pressed for time, they rely on the "old standards" to get by and cut other things. That doesn't mean I don't want you to enjoy it. It's just the bitter pill some fans have to swallow. It's cool if you're happy about it.. I'm not here to diminish your experience.. but just don't expect me to like the game as much. This series is built in a way where everyone has vastly different experiences -- and when you cut out possibilities, some people have less to work with. To me, I can only anchor myself on the combat and multiplayer.. Not just the squad sucks for me, but the plot does too. It's like an arcade game in a way. I've lost other things I cared about, but I can hold on to that.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 08 février 2014 - 06:48 .

#250
dreamgazer
Posté 08 février 2014 - 06:47

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EntropicAngel wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Same here, but I understand the logic behind choosing a fundamental, popular character from the first and second games above one with middling popularity from only the second.

Alas, the Citadel delivered the goods.  Arguably the best character content in that DLC.  CidShep was happy.


For jack? I'm trying to remember any significant Jack content but I can't.


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