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Could Bioware Lie About ME4? Could Shepard be the main character again?


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#251
CronoDragoon

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StreetMagic wrote...
As for ME3, time constraints are the main enemy. I only blame them insofar as when they are pressed for time, they rely on the "old standards" to get by and cut other things. That doesn't mean I don't want you to enjoy it. It's just the bitter pill some fans have to swallow. It's cool if you're happy about it.. I'm not here to diminish your experience.. but just don't expect me to like the game as much. This series is built in a way where everyone has vastly different experiences -- and when you cut out possibilities, some people have less to work with. To me, I can only anchor myself on the combat and multiplayer.. Not just the squad sucks for me, but the plot does too. It's like an arcade game in a way. I've lost other things I cared about, but I can hold on to that.


That all sounds pretty fair to me. I'm not asking you to like the game as much as I do. But I'd point out that perhaps there'd be more room for Jack content in the budget if they didn't have to account for all the Suicide Mission deaths necessitating Padok Wiks and Kirrahe and Wreav, etc. They had a lot of alternate scenarios to plan for, and implementing those takes time and money. Time and budget constraints are indeed the enemy, but that has always been the case, not just with ME3. Were there no time/budget constraints, for example, the VS and Liara would have had a much larger role in ME2. But because they had to plan for them being in ME3, they cut their roles down to a minimum for the base game.

#252
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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CronoDragoon wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Wait, was the decision between Tali or Jack really a thing?

All I know is Weekes petitioned for Tali's inclusion, which got her in as a squadmate by the skin of her teeth.


I have no idea. I've just been rolling with StreetMagic's assumption. I'd like to think that Miranda would get in before Jack though, sheerly through plot relevance.


Could've had both of them at some point.

Apparently Bioware took it to heart that small squads are better. Which is pretty ****ing stupid when you already introduced a large squad. Too late to turn back now, but they did anyways, and hoped nobody would care.

#253
N0rke

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dreamgazer wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would have preferred more Jack personally, but I roll with what Bioware gives us.


Same here, but I understand the logic behind choosing a fundamental, popular character from the first and second games above one with middling popularity from only the second.

Alas, the Citadel delivered the goods.  Arguably the best character content in that DLC.  CidShep was happy.

I'd argue that the Samara scene where you try to romance her was the best, but floats and boats and all that. Really liked what they did with Jack's character in Citadel/3 though, if they would of threw a bit of that into 2 I think she would have been a much more liked character.

#254
dreamgazer

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StreetMagic wrote...

Apparently Bioware took it to heart that small squads are better. Which is pretty ****ing stupid when you already introduced a large squad. Too late to turn back now, but they did anyways, and hoped nobody would care.


Well, they did receive a lot of just criticism for the overflow of squad members in ME2, ones that didn't interact with one another and a few that were redundant or flat-out had no purpose in the suicide mission.

#255
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N0rke wrote...
I'd argue that the Samara scene where you try to romance her was the best, but floats and boats and all that. Really liked what they did with Jack's character in Citadel/3 though, if they would of threw a bit of that into 2 I think she would have been a much more liked character.


It is in 2. If you romance her.

edit: They always intended her to be hated by some people though. It goes to what I'm saying through this thread. That ME2 tried to cater to different people.

Here's an old interview with Hudson talking about her:

We like to create all different kinds of characters so that all different kinds of personalities of players that play our game are able to identify differently.

That's one thing we tried with Jack and that's why we make a character like that. A lot of people are repelled by that kind of character. There are other people that see what she's about. That's what we want. The other thing is though that there's always more to that character. So in the case of Jack for example, she becomes someone you care about when you don't initially. Her story makes you kind of care about her and her love interest is intriguing at a superficial level, but the superficial level prevents you from getting to know her. But if you ignore that and try to get to know her, there's so much more there.


Modifié par StreetMagic, 08 février 2014 - 07:05 .


#256
dreamgazer

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N0rke wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would have preferred more Jack personally, but I roll with what Bioware gives us.


Same here, but I understand the logic behind choosing a fundamental, popular character from the first and second games above one with middling popularity from only the second.

Alas, the Citadel delivered the goods.  Arguably the best character content in that DLC.  CidShep was happy.

I'd argue that the Samara scene where you try to romance her was the best, but floats and boats and all that. Really liked what they did with Jack's character in Citadel/3 though, if they would of threw a bit of that into 2 I think she would have been a much more liked character.


I actually agree with you about Samara.  That was a very well done scene, in both instances.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 08 février 2014 - 07:01 .


#257
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Funnily, Samara and Jack were created by the same person. As well as Grunt.

He's not hurting though (now the lead for Diablo and SC games).

#258
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dreamgazer wrote...



Image IPB

"Good enough, so that if you're ever hurt, barely breathing, lying under a pile of rubble at the ass end of this war, you're gonna have..."


Ah. Not bad.

#259
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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As good as Citadel is, it isn't a good substitute for what the squad experience is and how you roleplay within that. It isn't about romance scenes and hitting the Interrupt button.

#260
spirosz

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EntropicAngel wrote...
Ah. Not bad.


Watch the whole tattoo scene, it was what was critically missing from the vanilla game. 

#261
dreamgazer

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StreetMagic wrote...

As good as Citadel is, it isn't a good substitute for what the squad experience is and how you roleplay within that. It isn't about romance scenes and hitting the Interrupt button.


It's not, but Jack wasn't a squad member in ME3.

#262
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dreamgazer wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

As good as Citadel is, it isn't a good substitute for what the squad experience is and how you roleplay within that. It isn't about romance scenes and hitting the Interrupt button.


It's not, but Jack wasn't a squad member in ME3.


I know, but my point is that they can't win me over with cutscenes. It isn't what was missing from ME3.

Hell, they couldn't even bother with a minor reacharound and let her be a squadmate in the DLC itself. No, it's all about your "real friends", standing from balconies shooting down mercs in a big "bro" moment.

#263
wright1978

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StreetMagic wrote...

I know, but my point is that they can't win me over with cutscenes. It isn't what was missing from ME3.

Hell, they couldn't even bother with a minor reacharound and let her be a squadmate in the DLC itself. No, it's all about your "real friends", standing from balconies shooting down mercs in a big "bro" moment.


i enjoyed getting extra content for Miranda in the citadel.Given the whole brooks/Cerberus nonsense plot in a way I'm grateful Miranda was kept out of it even if I would have liked to have her by my Shep's side as a squad side one more.

#264
KrazyKiko

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I'll echo what most probably said. Are they capable of leading us astray by false stories? Yes. Is Shepard in ME(4)? No...I believe they are being truthful in that regard.

#265
AlanC9

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dreamgazer wrote...
Well, they did receive a lot of just criticism for the overflow of squad members in ME2, ones that didn't interact with one another and a few that were redundant or flat-out had no purpose in the suicide mission.


Isn't Kasumi outright harmful on the SM? She hurts your HTL score and isn't very useful in the final battle. She can be a tech specialist, but you've already got one or two of those.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 février 2014 - 03:59 .


#266
Seival

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MEU had enough of Shepard. It's time for a new protagonist. Completely new.

#267
Heimdall

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Seival wrote...

MEU had enough of Shepard. It's time for a new protagonist. Completely new.

Approved

#268
Sanunes

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AlanC9 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Well, they did receive a lot of just criticism for the overflow of squad members in ME2, ones that didn't interact with one another and a few that were redundant or flat-out had no purpose in the suicide mission.


Isn't Kasumi outright harmful on the SM? She hurts your HTL score and isn't very useful in the final battle. She can be a tech specialist, but you've already got one or two of those.


Not to my knowledge, but Mordin seems to have a very low survivablity.  I have had him die on the line after completing everyone's loyality mission and leaving my tanks behind as well.  Since then the only change is I take Mordin with me at the end or send him back with the crew and nobody has ever died there unless I wanted them to.

#269
Sanunes

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Seival wrote...

MEU had enough of Shepard. It's time for a new protagonist. Completely new.


Not only that, I really don't want to encounter an enemy that is "stronger, meaner, faster, more intelligent" then the Reapers as an enemy for Shepard.  Which is one of the reasons why I am not upset Shepard's story is done that means we might not have a "Halo 4 Promethean" enemy where they are more dangerous then the previous enemy, but nobody ever heard of them before.

#270
AlanC9

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Sanunes wrote...

Not to my knowledge, but Mordin seems to have a very low survivablity.  I have had him die on the line after completing everyone's loyality mission and leaving my tanks behind as well.  Since then the only change is I take Mordin with me at the end or send him back with the crew and nobody has ever died there unless I wanted them to.


I looked it up. Kasumi has the same low HTL scores as Mordin; he'll die first since that's the order of the list, but she reduces your average the same way he does.

#271
Mcfly616

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No Shepard. None of his crew or squadmates. Bioware shouldn't try to make the next protagonist live up to Shepard. They also shouldn't be trying to make an enemy that lives up to the Reapers. Let Shepard and the Reapers sit atop the Hero/Villain caste of the MEU. Just be different. No savior-like figure. No ancient unstoppable force. And no narrative concerning the fate of the entire galaxy.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 05:00 .


#272
Mcfly616

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Sanunes wrote...

we might not have a "Halo 4 Promethean" enemy where they are more dangerous then the previous enemy, but nobody ever heard of them before.

nobody heard of the Prometheans because they were confined inside a Dyson Sphere for over a millennia. Sort of like nobody knew about the Leviathan because they were hiding in the abyss of some ocean on some backwater uncharted world for millions of years. 

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 05:01 .


#273
Sanunes

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Mcfly616 wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

we might not have a "Halo 4 Promethean" enemy where they are more dangerous then the previous enemy, but nobody ever heard of them before.

nobody heard of the Prometheans because they were confined inside a Dyson Sphere for over a millennia. Sort of like nobody knew about the Leviathan because they were hiding in the abyss of some ocean on some backwater uncharted world for millions of years. 


Thats what I get for not fully knowing the Halo story.

I just don't want to have an enemy that is more powerful then the Reapers which I am thinking would happen with any sequel involving Shepard.  For I never liked the idea of how powerful the Reapers were protrayed as for it limits how the story can progress (at least from how I see it).

#274
Sanunes

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AlanC9 wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

Not to my knowledge, but Mordin seems to have a very low survivablity.  I have had him die on the line after completing everyone's loyality mission and leaving my tanks behind as well.  Since then the only change is I take Mordin with me at the end or send him back with the crew and nobody has ever died there unless I wanted them to.


I looked it up. Kasumi has the same low HTL scores as Mordin; he'll die first since that's the order of the list, but she reduces your average the same way he does.


Interesting, I guess it was pure luck with one dying and the other not.

#275
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You already met "another ancient evil". Too late. They're called Leviathan. Not great in numbers like the Reapers, but they could probably do something worse. Enslave your own friends and allies. And they won't be obvious, like husks.

I still like using Kasumi as my go to "tech specialist" (i.e. the vents in the SM). More out of a sense of roleplaying. Especially if I'm still wary of aliens and Geth. She's kind of funny too.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 08 février 2014 - 05:35 .