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[Mcfly616]

Sanunes wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

we might not have a "Halo 4 Promethean" enemy where they are more dangerous then the previous enemy, but nobody ever heard of them before.

nobody heard of the Prometheans because they were confined inside a Dyson Sphere for over a millennia. Sort of like nobody knew about the Leviathan because they were hiding in the abyss of some ocean on some backwater uncharted world for millions of years. 

Thats what I get for not fully knowing the Halo story.

I just don't want to have an enemy that is more powerful then the Reapers which I am thinking would happen with any sequel involving Shepard.  For I never liked the idea of how powerful the Reapers were protrayed as for it limits how the story can progress (at least from how I see it).

I don't want an enemy that's as powerful as the Reapers either. But for different reasons. I liked the Reapers. The mysteries of the Reapers were my main interest concerning Mass Effect's narrative. However, I'm so sick and tired of storytellers (mainly in movies and games, not so much in literature) trying to out-do themselves by making things even bigger, badder and grander than their predecessors, whilst rehashing the same exact concepts.

They can out-do themselves by simply doing something entirely different. Different type of hero. A different type of villain. A different type of struggle. A different type of story.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 05:43 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Sanunes wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

we might not have a "Halo 4 Promethean" enemy where they are more dangerous then the previous enemy, but nobody ever heard of them before.

nobody heard of the Prometheans because they were confined inside a Dyson Sphere for over a millennia. Sort of like nobody knew about the Leviathan because they were hiding in the abyss of some ocean on some backwater uncharted world for millions of years. 

Thats what I get for not fully knowing the Halo story.

I just don't want to have an enemy that is more powerful then the Reapers which I am thinking would happen with any sequel involving Shepard.  For I never liked the idea of how powerful the Reapers were protrayed as for it limits how the story can progress (at least from how I see it).

yeah ... but a sequel in general will suffer from the reapers.

dont get me wrong ... the reapers are potentially cool enemies (especially, if the story does not reveal their big secret) - just like they were in me1 and even 2 ... mysterious, reclusive puppet players, who dont give 0.5 ****s to tell us, why they are doing their thing.
i loved the me 1+2 reapers.

but sadly, they were handled pretty bad in me3 ... they made them even more powerfull, stripped them off their weaknesses and gave them an idiotic reason. they made them so powerfull, that only a devine weapon could end them.


mass effect 3 was meant to be the end of the mass effect universe. each of the original endings doomed the galaxy in a certain way and made a sequel impossible.
while the ec softened the edges of the endings, its still a pretty f... up ... ruined universe. lets just say, that a sequel is going to need a lot of handwaving to make it work. and even then, the writers limited themselves, by implementing the race-based choices in me3 (geth, quariens, hanar (they could also be harvested/dead, if you did not do the mission), krogan etc.) and the ending-choices seal the deal. in addition, without the MASS EFFECT relays, the universe looses one of its main signature features - nearly limitless travel within our galaxy.


imo, the mass effect universe needs to be reset - this time, without the reapers. i know, they are pretty iconic and important to the meu but in the end, their me3-incarnation sealed the universes fate.

i fresh universe still has ALL the opportunities to tell stories - no limitations based on the me3-decision.

and ... a future mass effect game (not the next) still has the potential to get shepard back in the saddle - if the writers decide the time has come.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Expecting them to not do another "epic" story is just as misguided as me expecting them to appease ME2 fans properly (I happen to know I'm misguided though ).

an Epic doesn't solely consist of wars against unstoppable foes for the fate of all life as we know it. An epic can be a great story about anything. An epic is a great journey. 


So no, I'm not misguided. I'm just looking forward to something different instead of more of the same.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 06:02 .

[maaaad365]

Wow ! Great discussion, guys and girls. I still believe in Shepard and I do hope he comes back in ME4. It will be hard for some other character to replace him. ME4 without Shepard will be great, but it won't be the best RPG game in the world , like ME 1,2 ... and 3 were. If Bioware decides to go with Shepard again in ME4 I will pre-order instantly.

[Dr_Extrem]

maaaad365 wrote...

Wow ! Great discussion, guys and girls. I still believe in Shepard and I do hope he comes back in ME4. It will be hard for some other character to replace him. ME4 without Shepard will be great, but it won't be the best RPG game in the world , like ME 1,2 ... and 3 were. If Bioware decides to go with Shepard again in ME4 I will pre-order instantly.

i am an avowing shepard fan.

but .. like i wrote before ... a direct sequel - even with shepard - will face big problems and it is not very likely, that the mass effect writers (or any writer) can write the universe out of its dead end. a direct continuation of shepards story would not really work, without ignoring the evnts of london and the citadel. if they would go this route, they would admit, that me3 was not finished and had no ending at all - this is not going to happen.

but ... every other new character in the post-ending universe will face severe story-problems due to the choices made in me3.

me4 is going to have i different pc and it will most likely take place during or before the reaper war. my problem is, that i dont really want to play a "background actor" while (my) shepard is saving the rest of the galaxy and if i have to play a story, that is placed before the events of me1-3, it will certainly have no big influence on the events that will shatter the fabric of the meu.

the path of the galaxy is set by the last trilogy and the new story can only take place between the first contact war and priority: earth. in addition, it has to be a "low profile" story, that does not influence the fabric of the meu.


the me:next-project is more complicated, than we can imagine.

bioware has to create:
- a new pc that everybody likes (a niche-character would not attract the audience that is needed to pay the bills)
- a story, that is "insignificant enough" (to keep the me 1-3 narrative untouched) but epic (to keep us invested) at the same time.
- new squadmembers, that can hold up a candle to the old crew, without dwarfing them (if the new squaddies are "better" than the old ones, why did shepard not recruit them?).
- a new spaceship, that is still a civilian ship (new pc has no military background) but far better than a simple kowloon class freighter.
- the citadel/omega would have to be included
- physical conflicts, that do not make shepard look like a girl/boyscout.


those are no small tasks and every one of these points have to hit the spot to make the game work and i am very sceptical that the writers can pull this off.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 08 février 2014 - 07:01 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ryncol Theory solves the reset problem and the reapers. I know Mark Meer and Jen Hale wouldn't mind another spin as the main character. The old characters can still exist, but they'll be in slightly different roles, and hopefully the story will be better written.

This said, Jack was one of my favorite characters in the MEU. I did feel her entry scene in ME3 was a disconnect. Wait, Jack, I didn't trust Cerberus. We blew up the Collector Base. You didn't see how pissed off The Illusive Man was. We all quit. Don't you remember? .... oh that. by the way, why didn't you write to me while I was in prison? You of all people should know how much a letter means from those you care about. I even got ink. LOVE on this hand, and HATE on this hand, and on my shoulder is the asteroid hitting the mass relay. Now let's kick some ass like old times.

[Mcfly616]

You act as if there isn't a trillion beings within the MEU, who all have a story to tell that probably doesn't "shatter the fabric" of the universe.


There's not a chance you'd be interested in one of them? Hmm...

[Mcfly616]

They're no longer limited by the Shepard/Reaper narrative. They can branch out in any number of ways. Gameplay, Story, even the genre/type of videogames don't necessarily have to conform to the first 3 games. 


The Mass Effect brand will sell itself now. It doesn't need Shepard as it's mascot any longer. 

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 07:21 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Mcfly616 wrote...

You act as if there isn't a trillion beings within the MEU, who all have a story to tell that probably doesn't "shatter the fabric" of the universe.


There's not a chance you'd be interested in one of them? Hmm...

do not put words im my mouth.

i would be intersted, if the writers hit the spot and everything fits - but i have my doubts.
they did not show great writing skills in mass effect 3. the crucible, shaky reaper explanation, the catalysts "logic", droped plots, cheasy one-liners etc. and a lot of the storys parts are weak or badly executed.

atm, me:next feels like a "life-prolonging-device" to milk the rests out of the franchise. i could be mistaken but the inconsistancy of mass effects plot/writing are not going to change in the future, as long as the same people are in charge.


i hope for the franchise that i am wrong ... but it is not likely.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Ryncol Theory solves the reset problem and the reapers. I know Mark Meer and Jen Hale wouldn't mind another spin as the main character. The old characters can still exist, but they'll be in slightly different roles, and hopefully the story will be better written.

If you're going to keep talking about Ryncol Theory you should probably put a link to the definition in your sig.

Actually, we could use a page someplace with quick summaries of all the theories. There was a dopey thread  -- even worse than usual, I mean -- earlier this week where people were talking about IT but everyone meant something different by the term.

[durasteel]

BioWare is not a pack of idiots--these guys are competent professionals and industry leaders. Everyone makes mistakes, and we've seen that these developers are not exceptions. I have great confidence, however, that they are--at a minimum--putting forth a good-faith effort to learn from their mistakes, and so I am reasonably certain that nothing this team says about Mass Effect 4 will be something that could convincingly be described as a lie.

To mislead us at this point would be indescribably stupid.

ME4 will almost certainly be a fresh start. The ME Trilogy had a strong and popular setting, but the central story arc completely fell apart. This will begin a new--hopefully strong and well planned--story arc set in the existing setting.

Modifié par durasteel, 08 février 2014 - 07:43 .

[Daemul]

Mcfly616 wrote...

They're no longer limited by the Shepard/Reaper narrative. They can branch out in any number of ways. Gameplay, Story, even the genre/type of videogames don't necessarily have to conform to the first 3 games. 


The Mass Effect brand will sell itself now. It doesn't need Shepard as it's mascot any longer. 

I would love to see a Mass Effect dystopia. Society breaking down in the aftermath of the Reaper war as the races struggle to rebuild. It would be brilliant and realistic. Life does not just go back to normal after a galactic war for survival which left numerous world's burning, infrastructure destroyed, billions dead, billions more displaced, the seat of galactic government the scene of a mass slaughter and the economy in tatters. Life is going to be s**t for a long time.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

StreetMagic wrote...

Daemul wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

They're no longer limited by the Shepard/Reaper narrative. They can branch out in any number of ways. Gameplay, Story, even the genre/type of videogames don't necessarily have to conform to the first 3 games. 


The Mass Effect brand will sell itself now. It doesn't need Shepard as it's mascot any longer. 

I would love to see a Mass Effect dystopia. Society breaking down in the aftermath of the Reaper war as the races struggle to rebuild. It would be brilliant and realistic. Life does not just go back to normal after a galactic war for survival which left numerous world's burning, infrastructure destroyed, billions dead, billions more displaced, the seat of galactic government the scene of a mass slaughter and the economy in tatters. Life is going to be s**t for a long time.

If that's the case, I'd like it too. That brings in conflict on smaller scales, crime, and enemies within.

But since I think they go so far to uphold "society" and their precious galactic unity, then the natural threat is anything that seeks to unravel that. And it ends up being bigger than crime or politics or "barbarians at the gates". It becomes galactic threats once again.

This would be possible only with the destroy ending since with synthesis, everyone could be networked since they're partly synthetic and partly organic; and with control the reapers would be used to enforce the laws to protect the many. More story possibilities exist with a destroy canon than either of the others.

Worlds isolated as the relays rebuild. The only regions that got away pretty well were the Asari Republics and the Salarians. The Salarians didn't get hit - well maybe at the very last minute, and some of the Asari worlds surrendered and have their infrastructure intact, and the colonies are developed and could survive independently. Thessia, however, got pounded and probably lost about 1/5 of the population. 

Palaven is decimated. The Turian military is decimated. All the militaries are decimated. You've got a Krogan problem. And another question is this: does Earth have a Vorcha problem? Earth is decimated. Batarians? What is left of Khar'shan?

The Quarians? well FTL across the galaxy is going to take years. So we're essentially back in the situation we were pre EC except the relays were "damaged" instead of "destroyed."

[Mcfly616]

Dr_Extrem wrote...


do not put words im my mouth.

Ha I never stated that you said anything. I merely made an observation of your post from my perspective. I even politely inquired in order to confirm.

 
they did not show great writing skills in mass effect 3. the crucible, shaky reaper explanation, the catalysts "logic", droped plots, cheasy one-liners etc. and a lot of the storys parts are weak or badly executed.

That's all pretty subjective. One could say they didn't show great writing skills in ME2. The Lazarus Project, the unnecessary introduction of the Collectors, the tangent of a narrative to the overall trilogy, lack of a cohesive story, mommy/daddy issues, human-reaper fetus, cheesy one-liners etc. And pretty much the entire plot is pointless.

atm, me:next feels like a "life-prolonging-device" to milk the rests out of the franchise. i could be mistaken but the inconsistancy of mass effects plot/writing are not going to change in the future, as long as the same people are in charge.

Speak for yourself. Seems like a fresh start to me. A clean slate. New characters. New story. New studio. 

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 10:14 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...


do not put words im my mouth.

Ha I never stated that you said anything. I merely made an observation of your post from my perspective. I even politely inquired in order to confirm.

 
they did not show great writing skills in mass effect 3. the crucible, shaky reaper explanation, the catalysts "logic", droped plots, cheasy one-liners etc. and a lot of the storys parts are weak or badly executed.

That's all pretty subjective. One could say they didn't show great writing skills in ME2. The Lazarus Project, the unnecessary introduction of the Collectors, the tangent of a narrative to the overall trilogy, lack of a cohesive story, mommy/daddy issues, human-reaper fetus, cheesy one-liners etc. And pretty much the entire plot is pointless.

atm, me:next feels like a "life-prolonging-device" to milk the rests out of the franchise. i could be mistaken but the inconsistancy of mass effects plot/writing are not going to change in the future, as long as the same people are in charge.

Speak for yourself. Seems like a fresh start to me. A clean slate. New characters. New story. New studio. 

i hate it when people dissect posts ... bad style and hard to answer properly.

you made a snide comment based on your observation and i made my case clear.


indeed .. the main plot of me2 is nonexistant and coherent writing is not their strong suit.

sadly, they did not learn fron the mistakes they made in me2 - weak to nonexistant main plot. the reason the people looked over those problems were the entertaining characters and their recruitment/loyalty missions. since their were no good "distractions" from the main plot in me3, the story weaknesses were "sitting ducks".

and now the writers who (story wise) got lucky with me2 and screwed me3 are going to write the story for me:next. this is a legit reason to be cautious.


i really hope it is a fresh start - like a reset button a complete reboot of the universe  ... without the problems they wrote themselves into. a fresh start - a reset - would open up the possibility for shepard to return in later games (in a few years) ... and that would be good for us all.
but i am afraid, that they will try to worm out/work around and make things worse (story wise).


it is legit to be concerned - thats all i am saying.

[Mcfly616]

Bad style? Another subjective view. Apparently those who use said style do so in order to address separate points "properly" as well as thoroughly. Don't blame me for going off on your own tangents. I merely commented on them. "Snide", also your own interpretation.

"Shepard to return in future games...would be good for us all"? Again, speak for yourself.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 10:49 .

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

They're no longer limited by the Shepard/Reaper narrative. They can branch out in any number of ways. Gameplay, Story, even the genre/type of videogames don't necessarily have to conform to the first 3 games. 


The Mass Effect brand will sell itself now. It doesn't need Shepard as it's mascot any longer. 

And yet the Shepard/Reaper narrative will hang like a dark shadow over the franchise for years to come.

Saying it "doesn't need Shepard as a mascot any more" is like that joke about the definition of chutzpah:  the guy who killed his parents then asked for mercy for the judge because he's an orphan.

[Mcfly616]

iakus wrote...

And yet the Shepard/Reaper narrative will hang like a dark shadow over the franchise for years to come.

not quite. There are many who are fond of the trilogy and look forward to the future. 


It might remain as a bad taste in the mouths of some fans, but a dark cloud would rather signify a universal "taint" or stigma. The SW prequels and Matrix sequels come to mind. While the Mass Effect Trilogy had it's flaws, no individual part ruined it for the whole. 

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2014 - 11:05 .