580 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

That's what I was asking.. is it a Plan B?

This was the culmination of Harbinger's interest in humanity? Cerbrus going full retard? I thought it'd be more interesting, I guess

Like what?

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
If the millions of people who buy games due to marketing are financing the creation of games you like with their money, what's the point in looking down on them? You might not like the way that they're appeal to, but Bioware couldn't survive making the games they do if three quarters of their audience disappeared overnight.

I mean, developers that have to appeal to obsessed niche enthusiasts are by necessity going to have a smaller budget, a smaller vision for the game, and much more limited resources.

I laugh at microtransactions and marketing, and you want to teach me a lesson about how we're all connected? lol.. **** you.

Seriously. I don't mean that in some venomous way. I just think you need to hear that. You seem to run under the assumption that there's enough "humanity" in me that maybe you think you can get through to it. There isn't. I embrace my hate. Happily. Is there any sense to it? I don't know. Don't care either.

You sure he wasn't making a self-interest argument? I didn't see an appeal to humanity here. I don't know where you got that.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 février 2014 - 03:47 .

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

Because of the haters or the hippies? I think there's a balance of people like you and me alike. Nothing to see here really.

What's a hippie?

[Iakus]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Marketing is, like it or not, monumentally successful at getting people to buy the game. If it wasn't, the game wouldn't sell. EA wouldn't invest in a marketing division, they wouldn't have entire teams of people making trailers, and the devs wouldn't go so crazy before launch to hype everything.

It's one thing to market a game.  It's another to sell your soul (not to mention your good name) to marketing to move a few more products

As fans it's really hard to even imagine a larger picture - and probably difficult to acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of Mass Effect players don't hang out on the internet talking about the game, or analysing its characters in detail. They don't follow every update about the game obsessively, don't scour the internet for news, and might not even know when the game launches. For those millions of people, marketing is very literally the means by which they find out the game is on sale, and go out and buy it.

And the uproar over ME3 was so bad it made it into the mainstream press.  This is what ME3 was remembered for, it doesn't matter if you are a casual or hardcore gamer.  

In the wider fanbase, everyone participating this thread is extraordinarily unusual to the point of being freakish. We're in the tiniest minority of people - out of four million plus players - who even sign up for the BSN, and the tiniest minority of those who are still posting two years after the game launched.

You make it sound like people are sheep.  Sheep with unusually short attention spans.  And Bioware's counting on that.

I really, really hope not.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

And the uproar over ME3 was so bad it made it into the mainstream press.

Eh, so did the sex scenes in ME1.

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

People who think too much about interconnectedness.

Are there any here?

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
In the wider fanbase, everyone participating this thread is extraordinarily unusual to the point of being freakish. We're in the tiniest minority of people - out of four million plus players - who even sign up for the BSN, and the tiniest minority of those who are still posting two years after the game launched.

You make it sound like people are sheep.  Sheep with unusually short attention spans.  And Bioware's counting on that.

I really, really hope not.

He's just saying the truth there. We don't have anything to do with the overwhelming majority of players.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 février 2014 - 04:01 .

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

When someone tries to make me think of the "bigger picture" about marketing and microtransactions, then yeah. That's an appeal for me to think how people affect each other, beyond what I care to. Only a hippy troubles himself with this sort of thing.

So thinking about marketing and business  makes you a hippy? That's a bit.... strange. 

I can understand not wanting to think about this stuff, but it isn't hippies who think about this sort of thing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 février 2014 - 04:10 .

[ElitePinecone]

iakus wrote...

You make it sound like people are sheep.  Sheep with unusually short attention spans.  And Bioware's counting on that.

No, I'm saying that not everybody has the time or the desire to obsessively follow news about a game and hang around on forums about it. The vast, vast majority of people who bought Mass Effect do not do this. Half the game's players, on average don't finish it. 

It's one thing to say that the ending controversy made it into the press. How many players even finished the game? How many of those people cared about the ending? How many of those people cared enough about the ending to make a complaint? And how many of those players care enough about the ending to still be talking about it two years afterwards? 

When Bioware say that it was a minority of people who had an issue with the ending, I don't really doubt them. Millions of people played the game, some finished it and - if they encountered the ending controversy at all - wondered what all the fuss was about. They aren't sheep, or deluded, or stupid. They just had a different opinion on the conlusion than you or me. You can argue all you like about the merits of that opinion, but the vast majority of people who played Mass Effect - if they finished the game at all - didn't bother to sign up for a forum, tweet a developer, or sign a petition.

Basically: I don't think the ending controversy is nearly as huge and important as people on the BSN think it is - but also not as small and quiet as Bioware would've wanted it to be, which is why the company has been all sunshine and rainbows for two years.

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

Really man.. you need to stop doing the Socratic thing. That's one reason David was so annoying (well that, and he had no sense of interconnectedness even on an immediate level. I have that at least). If you have something to say, just say it. Ending everything with a question mark doesn't hide that you have convictions.

Why should I care if this annoys you?

(Couldn't resist)

It's OK to not care about business realities. But your use of "hippie" is bizarre; if we follow your usage corporate executives are hippies. Unless they're bad at the job.

(Is it actually better without the question?)

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 février 2014 - 04:36 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

That's what I was asking.. is it a Plan B?

This was the culmination of Harbinger's interest in humanity? Cerbrus going full retard? I thought it'd be more interesting, I guess

Like what?

Something related to genetics. That was the trail of thought they were going for it seemed. Making his motives about Cerberus seems to be more about taking advantage of their ideology somehow.  Not genetics. But taking advantage of TIM's dreams of human superiority. I don't see why that makes humans worth considering over others. Plenty of species think like him. It's just competitiveness (gone awry, but basically just competitiveness).

“Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating.”



“Drell; useless, insufficient numbers.”



“Human; viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled.”



“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”



“Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure.”



“Human; viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability.”



“Geth; an annoyance, limited utility.”



“Human; viable possibility, impressive technical potential.”



“Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated.”



“Human; viable possibility, great biotic potential.”



“Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted.”



“Turian; you are considered...too primitive.”

This is not about your squadmates. Harbinger is considering which species of this cycle they will allow to "ascend" to Reaper form. The reason he mentions humans several times is because they have several useful genetaic traits, and he mentions different ones each time. He only mentions the other races once, because they are being rejected.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 09 février 2014 - 04:47 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

StreetMagic wrote...

I know it's not necessarily about the squadmates.

Just to clarify or update you on the train of thought, I was curious why this human-specific interest got dropped in ME3. Dreamgazer says it didn't and that indoctrinated Cerberus is a continuation of theme. If I understand him correctly? If that's the case, I don't see it.

Also, it seems that in ME3, the whole galaxy was going to be Reaper-ized? Or am I wrong about that? Was the Catalyst still only concerned with humans, and just wiping everyone else out?

To clarify: he does address your squadmates, but he's talking about the genetic abilities of the races they represent.

As far as I can tell, this human interest isn't dropped at all in ME3. We know that every cycle ends with the birth of a new Reaper. The Reapers seem to simply select the race which they deem to have the most interesting genetic potential and "let it ascend" to Reaper form. In this case, Harbinger seems to deem humanity a worthy candidate. All his lines to Shepard are along the lines of:

We will bring your species into harmony with our own.

Evolution cannot be stopped.

They will be as we are.

Relinquish your form to us.

Embrace perfection.

We are the harbinger of your perfection.

We are your genetic destiny.

Cerberus is simply to this cycle what the indoctrinated Prothean faction was to the Prothean cycle:  a group indoctrinated into the idea that the Reapers can be controlled, and that will oppose anyone who aims to destroy the Reapers. (This is how the Protheans never finished the Crucible, they were sabotaged from within.)

It's just part of the Reapers' divide and conquer strategy. Cause the organics to go at war with each other, so you'll have an easier time harvesting.

I personally think they will only allow humanity to "ascend" (read: "perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology" - muha), and simply destroy the other races, so they can no longer pose a threat.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 09 février 2014 - 05:10 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Unless, of course, you interpret the ending as Shepard choosing to:

A) Become an indoctrinated/controlled agent
Embrace Perfection and allow humanity to be harvested
C) Be destroyed by the Reapers (because he wants to destroy them)

Harbinger: "They will succumb and ascend... or they will be annihilated."

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 09 février 2014 - 05:20 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

IKR?

Shepard is a destroyer.

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

It's OK to not care about business realities. But your use of "hippie" is bizarre; if we follow your usage corporate executives are hippies. Unless they're bad at the job.

Most corporate Executives don't care about interconnectedness. Just profitable formulas.

So you really do mean to say that competent corporate executives are hippies? OK ... if you want to use language that way, it's your business. But it's ridiculous.

Anyways, it applies to ElitePinecone specifically because he's trying to appeal to me to be nice. To care about everyone else. That's what it comes down to. I might as well call him my grandma. Not a hippy.

Where did ElitePinecone ask you to be nice? What he actually posted was

If the millions of people who buy games due to marketing are financing the creation of games you like with their money, what's the point in looking down on them? You might not like the way that they're appeal to, but Bioware couldn't survive making the games they do if three quarters of their audience disappeared overnight.

I mean, developers that have to appeal to obsessed niche enthusiasts are by necessity going to have a smaller budget, a smaller vision for the game, and much more limited resources.

This is not an argument about you being "nice," as far as I can see. It's an argument about you being wrong about your own self-interest. You're better off if those gamers who buy games because of the marketing subsidize your games. Though I suppose you could still  look down on them even though you rely on them.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 février 2014 - 05:59 .