472 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

I wonder how many potential fans of both genders are never reached due to slanted advertising? None of the ME trailers or the DA2 Arishok trailer appealed to me, and the DA:O sacred ashes trailer was downright off putting. So generic, the quintessential dudebro slashing and hacking and killing things. All the trailers make the games seem like they have a fixed dudebro protagonist and are all about action. You never find out that it's all about story, characters, and choice or that you can make your own character. Without my cousin coming to my house and putting a copy of DA:O in my hands i would never have played a BioWare game. If the market for the type of game BioWare makes is so small that they are not worth marketing to and instead they need to trick action fans, especially those that will only play a dudebro into buying their games then I have to wonder why they make the kind of games they do?

[dragonflight288]

Promoting a female Inquisitor...got it! 

*summons a female Inquisitor* hello. Here is your promotion. I dub thee, Inquisitor First Class!  

[Ianamus]

Nefla wrote...

I wonder how many potential fans of both genders are never reached due to slanted advertising? None of the ME trailers or the DA2 Arishok trailer appealed to me, and the DA:O sacred ashes trailer was downright off putting. So generic, the quintessential dudebro slashing and hacking and killing things. All the trailers make the games seem like they have a fixed dudebro protagonist and are all about action. You never find out that it's all about story, characters, and choice or that you can make your own character. Without my cousin coming to my house and putting a copy of DA:O in my hands i would never have played a BioWare game. If the market for the type of game BioWare makes is so small that they are not worth marketing to and instead they need to trick action fans, especially those that will only play a dudebro into buying their games then I have to wonder why they make the kind of games they do?

I was convinced ME1/2 was just a generic Call of Duty/Halo clone that wouldn't interest me in the slightest until I happened to read online that you can create your own charcter and play as a female. 

For me it is the best feature of their games, so I don't undertsand why they don't advertise it more. Just a simple "Four playable races" text on a trailer for Inquisition would be enough to pique the interest of those interested in customising their charcter and imply that that it is possible to play as a female as well. 

Modifié par EJ107, 08 février 2014 - 04:46 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Nefla wrote...

I wonder how many potential fans of both genders are never reached due to slanted advertising? None of the ME trailers or the DA2 Arishok trailer appealed to me, and the DA:O sacred ashes trailer was downright off putting. So generic, the quintessential dudebro slashing and hacking and killing things. All the trailers make the games seem like they have a fixed dudebro protagonist and are all about action. You never find out that it's all about story, characters, and choice or that you can make your own character. Without my cousin coming to my house and putting a copy of DA:O in my hands i would never have played a BioWare game. If the market for the type of game BioWare makes is so small that they are not worth marketing to and instead they need to trick action fans, especially those that will only play a dudebro into buying their games then I have to wonder why they make the kind of games they do?

ME3 had a dudechick trailer.

[mopotter]

slimgrin wrote...

kuroi_sasori wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

kuroi_sasori wrote...

In Exile wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
That's what I said further down. It's still the market deciding. Over time.

Not really. The marketing reacts to a big "Oh, darn!" moment after one particular developer takes a risk on a new type of approach to gaming. Posters here are saying, essentially, that Bioware should be that developer that takes a risk on a new type of approach to marketing. 

You'll notice I used the word "entertainment" there and gave examples from entertainment, not actual things like oil. That was intentional. 

Oh, that was my bad. Apologies. I missed that. 

Would taking that risk be too bad? I mean there is always people as well as companies that just react to what others do rather than acting in advance. Taking risk is also part of doing businesses after all and who knows it might just work out and they will be the first ones to rip the benefits. Just a thought 

Women actually make up a sizable percentage of the console audience. It's not too hard to put two and two together and realize if you can appeal even to a part of that group, you can increase profits. The key is targeting that group and letting them know what the game has to offerinstead of it just looking like a male-dominated power fantasy game.

Whoa!  Are you implying females dont' want a power fantasy game?

I am certainly not . I think the devs could really appeal to many gamers by just taking that risk of advertising either their character creator in a trailer, showing the different possibilities available for all of us would be a good way of doing it which I think would be better than just including a female a la Mass Effect in their advertising campaign.

And once Bioware has decided to include a woman in their marketing, what type of woman will be univerailly accepted? Because this is really going to matter to Bioware fans.

And this is the thing.  A lot of us don't want a trailer showing a woman or a man, at least not all the time.  We'd like them to feature the possibilites of their game and not focus on one guy running towards something with a sword out.  Take that one guy running and morph him into 3 or 4 or more different characters runing towards something with a staff, sword and bow.  I've seen morphing shown so it should be possible.    

[SurelyForth]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

ME3 had a dudechick trailer.

That was, IIRC, released only on the internet and not as widely as the main trailer, and packaged within the whole "Hey, FemShep fans! We acknowledge her existence now!" promotional push they did in the run up to ME3. Which, better than nothing, I guess, but it's hardly a good example of BW really getting the word out to new players that the entire series provides the option. 

[Fast Jimmy]

SurelyForth wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

ME3 had a dudechick trailer.

That was, IIRC, released only on the internet and not as widely as the main trailer, and packaged within the whole "Hey, FemShep fans! We acknowledge her existence now!" promotional push they did in the run up to ME3. Which, better than nothing, I guess, but it's hardly a good example of BW really getting the word out to new players that the entire series provides the option. 

Which only reinforces the point I made earlier - ANY set protagonist trailer is not only going to be misleading (regardless of gender) due to the entire character creation process, but actively going to exclude/offend/negliect someone.

Bioware games don't have set protagonists. Advertisiing that they do is silly at best, false advertising at worst.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 08 février 2014 - 05:10 .

[Wulfram]

MMO trailers usually seem to manage to promote an undefined protagonist pretty well.

I'm wondering if they're planning to use that helmet as a unifying link to identify the protagonist in trailers.

[Sporothrix]

EJ107 wrote...

Nefla wrote...

I wonder how many potential fans of both genders are never reached due to slanted advertising? None of the ME trailers or the DA2 Arishok trailer appealed to me, and the DA:O sacred ashes trailer was downright off putting. So generic, the quintessential dudebro slashing and hacking and killing things. All the trailers make the games seem like they have a fixed dudebro protagonist and are all about action. You never find out that it's all about story, characters, and choice or that you can make your own character. Without my cousin coming to my house and putting a copy of DA:O in my hands i would never have played a BioWare game. If the market for the type of game BioWare makes is so small that they are not worth marketing to and instead they need to trick action fans, especially those that will only play a dudebro into buying their games then I have to wonder why they make the kind of games they do?

I was convinced ME1/2 was just a generic Call of Duty/Halo clone that wouldn't interest me in the slightest until I happened to read online that you can create your own charcter and play as a female. 

For me it is the best feature of their games, so I don't undertsand why they don't advertise it more. Just a simple "Four playable races" text on a trailer for Inquisition would be enough to pique the interest of those interested in customising their charcter and imply that that it is possible to play as a female as well. 

I remember that at first I thought this way about DAO thanks to ads I've seen - some boring generic "badass" white male warrior protagonist killing hords of some monsters, plus ridiculous music.
I wonder if people who stand behind those ads don't get that this way they discourage large part of potential customers? They apparently have this idea that they need to appeal to "target audience" (white straight young male), but there are really many ways to do it without making it look like the game is only for them, especially when it's not.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uhm... Wouldn't they, by that logic, then also discourage a large number of potential customers if they portrayed a badass female warrior killing huge amounts of monsters to some ridiculous music?

There are only two genders to choose from, and the depiction of one does not inherirently make it unappealing to the other.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 08 février 2014 - 06:50 .

[chuckles471]

Nefla wrote...

I wonder how many potential fans of both genders are never reached due to slanted advertising? None of the ME trailers or the DA2 Arishok trailer appealed to me, and the DA:O sacred ashes trailer was downright off putting. So generic, the quintessential dudebro slashing and hacking and killing things. All the trailers make the games seem like they have a fixed dudebro protagonist and are all about action. You never find out that it's all about story, characters, and choice or that you can make your own character. Without my cousin coming to my house and putting a copy of DA:O in my hands i would never have played a BioWare game. If the market for the type of game BioWare makes is so small that they are not worth marketing to and instead they need to trick action fans, especially those that will only play a dudebro into buying their games then I have to wonder why they make the kind of games they do?

One of the most elitist things I have read on BSN.  Congrats.

Modifié par chuckles471, 08 février 2014 - 07:05 .

[cjones91]

I really really hope Bioware does a better job of marketing the Female Inquisitor than they did with FemShep and FemHawke.There are still people who claim MaleShep is the real shep since he gets all of the marketing.

Modifié par cjones91, 08 février 2014 - 07:09 .

[cjones91]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm... Wouldn't they, by that logic, then also discourage a large number of potential customers if they portrayed a badass female warrior killing huge amounts of monsters to some ridiculous music?

There are only two genders to choose from, and the depiction of one does not inherirently make it unappealing to the other.

Believe it or not but there are people who refuse to buy a game with kickass female leads unless they dress in skanky clothes.

[chuckles471]

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm... Wouldn't they, by that logic, then also discourage a large number of potential customers if they portrayed a badass female warrior killing huge amounts of monsters to some ridiculous music?

There are only two genders to choose from, and the depiction of one does not inherirently make it unappealing to the other.

Believe it or not but there are people who refuse to buy a game with kickass female leads unless they dress in skanky clothes.

I had an ex who didn't like me playing Hitman Blood Money because he was bald.  There is a minority of crazy on both sides who will never be happy.

[KaiserShep]

cjones91 wrote...

I really really hope Bioware does a better job of marketing the Female Inquisitor than they did with FemShep and FemHawke.There are still people who claim MaleShep is the real shep since he gets all of the marketing.

I think Dragon Age benefits a bit from having the protagonist change with each story, whereas Mass Effect kind of set itself up promoting Sheploo's face for two games prior.

[Sporothrix]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm... Wouldn't they, by that logic, then also discourage a large number of potential customers if they portrayed a badass female warrior killing huge amounts of monsters to some ridiculous music?

There are only two genders to choose from, and the depiction of one does not inherirently make it unappealing to the other.

What 'that logic'? I never said that they should do the same but à rebours, I said that their marketing tactic is misleading. Would it really be so hard to inform that you can create your own character and choose the gender among the others? This is common problem of many titles with character customization. It is never advertised, usually not even in reviews it is mentioned in any way that "oh, BTW, you can play as a woman", so only people who intentionally seek for this information could know this, and they are usually hardcore gamers anyway.

[ShawDawg94]

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

[Master Warder Z_]

This topic again?

._.

Honestly people were complaining about the same thing for Hawke back in DA 2.

It isn't worth even mentioning; Bioware is decent about making the Genders equal or at least relatively so within their products.

[Red Panda]

Master Warder Z wrote...

This topic again?

._.

Honestly people were complaining about the same thing for Hawke back in DA 2.

It isn't worth even mentioning; Bioware is decent about making the Genders equal or at least relatively so within their products.

So women shouldn't be allowed to know about the possibility of playing as their own gender? You know you're basically saying that women aren't worth mentioning?

I disagree with you, and if you can't see the necessity to strive to improve the inherent sexism towards women, then I pity you, I really do.

[Master Warder Z_]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

This topic again?

._.

Honestly people were complaining about the same thing for Hawke back in DA 2.

It isn't worth even mentioning; Bioware is decent about making the Genders equal or at least relatively so within their products.

So women shouldn't be allowed to know about the possibility of playing as their own gender? You know you're basically saying that women aren't worth mentioning?

I disagree with you, and if you can't see the necessity to strive to improve the inherent sexism towards women, then I pity you, I really do.

Honestly complaining like this and masking it behind the label of "sexism" is why Bioware put out that "other" graphical art on certain copies of ME 3. Featuring a Female Commander Shepard.

This concern isn't valid and it has never been valid, When Bioware actually does something to Demean one of the genders beyond not mentioning them in an interview perhaps this grevience could go beyond a mere complaint in my eyesight.

But until then?

Its just a ceaseless, pointless and ultimately futile considering the result most would want to achieve has already been so (considering that off the top of my head i cannot recall ONE bioware game where you couldn't choose the gender of the PC if it wasn't already predefined) And Inherent Sexism?

Oh this age *sighs* 

Anywho its pretty evident to any one with suffienct knowledge of the subject to point out that isn't an issue, for Bioware and honestly if people aren't going to look into a series beyond "they didn't mention me being able to play as my own or my favorite or whatever sex"  Then personally?

Its their loss if they want to miss out on the rather stellar products this group puts out.

[Blackrising]

ShawDawg94 wrote...

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

Most of the time, a game doesn't register as 'genuinely interesting' if nothing points to the fact that I can play a female character. You have to remember that, when walking through the store and looking for a new game to buy, all you really see is the cover and a small blurb of info on the back of the box. So if a white, grizzled dudebro looks at me from the cover and the back of the box doesn't tell me anything other than "Hey, you can fight monsters and save the world and wield weapons and stuff and there's lots of quests and skills!", I immediatly put it back, secure in the knowledge that it is just another boring, run-of-the-mill RPG with absolutely nothing innovative about it. If nothing tells me that I can customize my character's looks, I will assume that the character I am supposed to play is the creator's character only. He has a personality I can't change or control or have any influence over and that is something that turns me off.

I do play games with male protagonists, but they only start to interest me if I hear enough good things about them on forums or websites. Most of my puchases last year were probably inspired by the people here talking about it. Most of them are games I never would have bought based on the game's advertisment alone, simply because they didn't tell me anything but "You can fight...and stuff...I guess."

Why do game advertisments never tell me the stuff I actually want to know? Character customization and influence over the story/my character/maybe romance...that's all I need to know to get me interested in a game. Seems to me that game companies still operate under the assumption that their player base are 90% young males whose only interests are weapons and beating stuff. :/

[gothickitty0824]

If i didnt know something about dragon age id research it and im not bothered by the trailers having men on them..

[Nefla]

ShawDawg94 wrote...

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

Games with a set protagonist generally do not interest me, especially if the protagonist is portrayed in a way that makes me think they are brutish, one dimensional, and meant more as a placeholder for the player to shoot or slash stuff with than an actual character I can identify with. 

Also, although I like playing both genders now, when I was young I was tired of ALWAYS having to play a male character. The same game with a female PC would have instantly gotten much more of my attention back then. Not everyone wants to have to cross dress. It shouldn't surprise you that there is a huge percentage of male gamers (even on the BSN which is generally more progressive) who would never play as a female character, and wouldn't buy a game if the set protagonist was a woman.

[badboy64]

Nefla wrote...

ShawDawg94 wrote...

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

Games with a set protagonist generally do not interest me, especially if the protagonist is portrayed in a way that makes me think they are brutish, one dimensional, and meant more as a placeholder for the player to shoot or slash stuff with than an actual character I can identify with. 

Also, although I like playing both genders now, when I was young I was tired of ALWAYS having to play a male character. The same game with a female PC would have instantly gotten much more of my attention back then. Not everyone wants to have to cross dress. It shouldn't surprise you that there is a huge percentage of male gamers (even on the BSN which is generally more progressive) who would never play as a female character, and wouldn't buy a game if the set protagonist was a woman.

Well I am not one of the males that hardly ever play a male character because in all of the DA and ME games I play as a female 99% of the time and only played 1 male character in each DA:O and DA2 plus just 1 male character in all 3 of the MassEffect games. I am just a small minorirty that does. I think they should put both a female and male character on the front cover of the new DragonAge when it comes out.

Modifié par badboy64, 08 février 2014 - 10:47 .

[mopotter]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm... Wouldn't they, by that logic, then also discourage a large number of potential customers if they portrayed a badass female warrior killing huge amounts of monsters to some ridiculous music?

There are only two genders to choose from, and the depiction of one does not inherirently make it unappealing to the other.

There are 2 genders, 3 races, and many faces you can make.  Show people that along with some of the game play and graphics.   Your character the way you want it. Start out with the defaults and go from there.  

Soul Calibur 5, a game I have no interest in playing because it's not a style of game I like, had a trailer was pretty interesting, they also started with the "required male" but then showed some of the different things you could do which included some nice female stuff, and the dumb male and female stuff.  BW could do it better.