472 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

ShawDawg94 wrote...

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

Yes.  There is no way in  I'll ever play the Witcher, and I know there are guys out there who won't play a specific game because there is a women as the lead.  Have explained my views on this back a ways.  Didn't buy FA3 untill it had been released for a couple of years, because I didn't know I could play female.  Haden't bought the previous 2 for the same reason.

That's not saying I won't play a guy if there is a choice.  I play Male Shep and Female Shep, warden and Hawke, as well as the male characters in BW other games, I'll play a guy in any game that has both.  I just won't buy a game where you don't have any choice.

[mopotter]

Master Warder Z wrote...

This topic again?

._.

Honestly people were complaining about the same thing for Hawke back in DA 2.

It isn't worth even mentioning; Bioware is decent about making the Genders equal or at least relatively so within their products.

Everyone here knows Bioware is great about having different genders.  We want the world to know.  That would be a good this.

[TK514]

I think marketing should spend their limited resources trying to reach the customers their studies show are most likely to spend money on their product. If that isn't your group, c'est la vie.

Re: BioWare in specific - Name a BioWare RPG that hasn't allowed gender choice. If you have heard of BioWare at all, it should be a no brainer to assume gender choice.

And, frankly, if you refuse to buy a game because you think there is a lack of gender choice rather than gameplay, that's on you for missing out, not the developers, marketers, or publishers. If you see a game trailer with a male protagonist and think "that doesn't look like my kind of game", then it shouldn't look any more like your kind of game if the subject had breasts.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

mopotter wrote...

ShawDawg94 wrote...

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

Yes.  There is no way in  I'll ever play the Witcher, and I know there are guys out there who won't play a specific game because there is a women as the lead.  Have explained my views on this back a ways.  Didn't buy FA3 untill it had been released for a couple of years, because I didn't know I could play female.  Haden't bought the previous 2 for the same reason.

That's not saying I won't play a guy if there is a choice.  I play Male Shep and Female Shep, warden and Hawke, as well as the male characters in BW other games, I'll play a guy in any game that has both.  I just won't buy a game where you don't have any choice.

Sounds like an awfully constricting criteria. You're missing out on many great games.

[mopotter]

Nefla wrote...

ShawDawg94 wrote...

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

Games with a set protagonist generally do not interest me, especially if the protagonist is portrayed in a way that makes me think they are brutish, one dimensional, and meant more as a placeholder for the player to shoot or slash stuff with than an actual character I can identify with. 

Also, although I like playing both genders now, when I was young I was tired of ALWAYS having to play a male character. The same game with a female PC would have instantly gotten much more of my attention back then. Not everyone wants to have to cross dress. It shouldn't surprise you that there is a huge percentage of male gamers (even on the BSN which is generally more progressive) who would never play as a female character, and wouldn't buy a game if the set protagonist was a woman.

I have been thinking recently  that the people who don't understand should be restricted to playing only games with the opposit sex as the main character for 10 years. They would probably enjoy some of them, I did, but eventually they would reach a point where they would start complaining because they are restricted to one sex and it's not one they can rally relate to.

[Master Warder Z_]

mopotter wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

This topic again?

._.

Honestly people were complaining about the same thing for Hawke back in DA 2.

It isn't worth even mentioning; Bioware is decent about making the Genders equal or at least relatively so within their products.

Everyone here knows Bioware is great about having different genders.  We want the world to know.  That would be a good this.

Ahem.

And you want THEM to foot the bill.

If this trailer or artwork or what have you was funded by fans i would see no issue with it.

But imposing an uneeded and completely in my view pointless expediture upon them when it isn't anyway shape or form going to change how i personally them well...I cannot support it.

[Sporothrix]

TK514 wrote...

And, frankly, if you refuse to buy a game because you think there is a lack of gender choice rather than gameplay, that's on you for missing out, not the developers, marketers, or publishers. If you see a game trailer with a male protagonist and think "that doesn't look like my kind of game", then it shouldn't look any more like your kind of game if the subject had breasts.

I think you missed the point. The issue lies in a fact that despite there being a gender choice in Bioware games you have to be a hardcore gamer who's familiar with other games from this company to know that, because otherwise, basing only on marketing, it usually looks like yet another action focused game with set bland generic white straight male protagonist.

And if we're talking about "missing great games" - ask yourself why game devs think it is so important to set all those bland generic white straight males as protagonists. If you don't know, here's the answer - because they reflect audience that is considered to be the target audience of most games. Many people project themselves into game's protagonists. You may think it is stupid (though it would be bold statement when 90% of games' protagonists are of your gender - it's very easy to not see any problem in such situation), but it affects enjoynment from the game for a lot of people.

So, because of this kind of marketing when it comes to Bioware games the company just loose money. They put a lot of work into making female gender an option for player, and then almost no one knows about it (speaking in general, since I've read somewhere that "hardcore gamers" are just a small part of game's buyers, though obviously it depends on the kind of the game).

Modifié par misoretu9, 08 février 2014 - 11:40 .

[Il Divo]

Interesting to consider.

One point that might be worth mentioning is that both KotOR and Jade Empire featured silent protagonists and had a good range of these characters featured in their respective launch trailers. In addition, KotOR's front cover doesn't feature the PC at all while Jade Empire (if I remember right) had several possible PC characters on the front cover.

One solution to the marketing problem could be if, with the launch trailers, they placed more emphasis on the overarching narrative and avoid focusing on the protagonist's role or their voiced PCs. While some might think this would be confusing, it certainly didn't hurt the launch trailers of either KotOR or Jade Empire (imo).
 
Some examples:

KotOR:

Jade Empire (very awesome, imo):

Modifié par Il Divo, 08 février 2014 - 11:46 .

[mopotter]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

mopotter wrote...

ShawDawg94 wrote...

I have a question for all the people who keep saying that they didn't buy a game because they didn't realize that could play as a female. Do you see games that genuinely interest you but refuse to play them because they don't let you play as a female? Is that the main deciding factor for you when choosing a game?

Yes.  There is no way in  I'll ever play the Witcher, and I know there are guys out there who won't play a specific game because there is a women as the lead.  Have explained my views on this back a ways.  Didn't buy FA3 untill it had been released for a couple of years, because I didn't know I could play female.  Haden't bought the previous 2 for the same reason.

That's not saying I won't play a guy if there is a choice.  I play Male Shep and Female Shep, warden and Hawke, as well as the male characters in BW other games, I'll play a guy in any game that has both.  I just won't buy a game where you don't have any choice.

Sounds like an awfully constricting criteria. You're missing out on many great games.

Nope.  I'm not.  there are good games that give me choices.  I'll support them. Unless they are in a $10 or less sale.  Then maybe if it sounds super interesting.

[mopotter]

Master Warder Z wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

This topic again?

._.

Honestly people were complaining about the same thing for Hawke back in DA 2.

It isn't worth even mentioning; Bioware is decent about making the Genders equal or at least relatively so within their products.

Everyone here knows Bioware is great about having different genders.  We want the world to know.  That would be a good this.

Ahem.

And you want THEM to foot the bill.

If this trailer or artwork or what have you was funded by fans i would see no issue with it.

But imposing an uneeded and completely in my view pointless expediture upon them when it isn't anyway shape or form going to change how i personally them well...I cannot support it.

You don't get it, so much for trying.  No one needs new customers, it's a waste of money,  Just keep going after the ones you alrady have.  Great plan.  

[mopotter]

Il Divo wrote...

Interesting to consider.

One point that might be worth mentioning is that both KotOR and Jade Empire featured silent protagonists and had a good range of these characters featured in their respective launch trailers. In addition, KotOR's front cover doesn't feature the PC at all while Jade Empire (if I remember right) had several possible PC characters on the front cover.

One solution to the marketing problem could be if, with the launch trailers, they placed more emphasis on the overarching narrative and avoid focusing on the protagonist's role or their voiced PCs. While some might think this would be confusing, it certainly didn't hurt the launch trailers of either KotOR or Jade Empire (imo).
 
Some examples:

KotOR:

Jade Empire (very awesome, imo):

Jade Empire had a great cover, so did KOTOR.  I belive Jade Empire had Wu the Lotus Blossom and Furious Ming.  I played all 7 characters, trying out the different styles.   Both of these are in my top 5 games I love.

[mopotter]

misoretu9 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

And, frankly, if you refuse to buy a game because you think there is a lack of gender choice rather than gameplay, that's on you for missing out, not the developers, marketers, or publishers. If you see a game trailer with a male protagonist and think "that doesn't look like my kind of game", then it shouldn't look any more like your kind of game if the subject had breasts.

I think you missed the point. The issue lies in a fact that despite there being a gender choice in Bioware games you have to be a hardcore gamer who's familiar with other games from this company to know that, because otherwise, basing only on marketing, it usually looks like yet another action focused game with set bland generic white straight male protagonist.

And if we're talking about "missing great games" - ask yourself why game devs think it is so important to set all those bland generic white straight males as protagonists. If you don't know, here's the answer - because they reflect audience that is considered to be the target audience of most games. Many people project themselves into game's protagonists. You may think it is stupid (though it would be bold statement when 90% of games' protagonists are of your gender - it's very easy to not see any problem in such situation), but it affects enjoynment from the game for a lot of people.

So, because of this kind of marketing when it comes to Bioware games the company just loose money. They put a lot of work into making female gender an option for player, and then almost no one knows about it (speaking in general, since I've read somewhere that "hardcore gamers" are just a small part of game's buyers, though obviously it depends on the kind of the game).

Exactly.

[Master Warder Z_]

mopotter wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

This topic again?

._.

Honestly people were complaining about the same thing for Hawke back in DA 2.

It isn't worth even mentioning; Bioware is decent about making the Genders equal or at least relatively so within their products.

Everyone here knows Bioware is great about having different genders.  We want the world to know.  That would be a good this.

Ahem.

And you want THEM to foot the bill.

If this trailer or artwork or what have you was funded by fans i would see no issue with it.

But imposing an uneeded and completely in my view pointless expediture upon them when it isn't anyway shape or form going to change how i personally them well...I cannot support it.

You don't get it, so much for trying.  No one needs new customers, it's a waste of money,  Just keep going after the ones you alrady have.  Great plan.  

The Ten or so people i know who bought the first two dragon ages (In person) Have never even mentioned the issue that some people think critical to gaming.

The most of them surprisingly enough want solid storylines and half decently drawn out character interaction and backstories.

You know the cornerstones of RPG games and what have you.

._. And i will have you note this mixture of freinds, aqquintances and what have you are of both genders.

So besides your entire point being subjective due to being EXTREMELY personal in so far as individual taste well...Yeah those who feel like that should foot the bill if they are the ones demanding it.

Only fair.

[Thibax]

Do you think that all male players feel themselves identified with characters that appear in the games?

Not all male players are white, and even the white ones don't have the same physical appearance.

Then let's ask to Bioware to make a video with a different kind of males and females that we can play.

Equality!

Looks like that some players here is trying to create a sexist fight with a gender war.

But remember, first we are all human and we deserve respect, no matter if you are male or female.

Bioware is doing right, it is just an inquisitor model to show us gameplay content.


If someone is more concerned about what gender will play the game. Does this person really likes to play RPGs? After all RPG is a role playing game, regardless of the gender of the character.

It's not right combating prejudice with more prejudice.

[JamieCOTC]

DA:O City Elf Trailer

DA:O Mage Trailer







I don't understand what the big deal is. They've done it before. Why not again?

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 09 février 2014 - 12:15 .

[Pasquale1234]

Master Warder Z wrote...

So besides your entire point being subjective due to being EXTREMELY personal in so far as individual taste well...Yeah those who feel like that should foot the bill if they are the ones demanding it.

Only fair.

I should give a fat rat's crap whether Bioware attracts more customers to purchase their games?

There are a lot of potential new customers out there - some of whom may not even be gamers yet - that might be drawn to Bioware's games were they marketed differently.

[Wulfram]

TK514 wrote...

Re: BioWare in specific - Name a BioWare RPG that hasn't allowed gender choice.

Sonic Chronicles?

(well, I'm guessing, not having played the game)

[The Hierophant]

Are people still assuming that a gender trailer is guaranteed to rake in enough new female gamers to increase DAI's sales by a notable sum?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Those are wonderful - thanks for the share. Were there any more?

Here you go.

Dwarf Noble:
images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/18200000/Dwarf-Noble-dragon-age-origins-18215310-1600-1200.jpg

Dalish Elf:
images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/12800000/Dragon-Age-Origins-dragon-age-origins-12845734-1600-1200.jpg

Human Noble:
blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/s/l/j/sljd/HumanNoble_wallpaper_full_1280x1024.jpg

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 09 février 2014 - 12:35 .

[Master Warder Z_]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

So besides your entire point being subjective due to being EXTREMELY personal in so far as individual taste well...Yeah those who feel like that should foot the bill if they are the ones demanding it.

Only fair.

I should give a fat rat's crap whether Bioware attracts more customers to purchase their games?

There are a lot of potential new customers out there - some of whom may not even be gamers yet - that might be drawn to Bioware's games were they marketed differently.

They seem to market just fine.

I picked up Kotor, Kotor 2,Jade Empire due to their marketing after all, Dragon Age, Dragon Age 2, NeverWinter Nights, Baldurs Gate.

You think i pick up these Masters peices (pretty much all of them besides Dragon Age Two Qualify) out of what? 

Charity?

They Market Well, They make their Product well, And they generally acheive results when they produce a game.

So i would agrue?

They Market Well considering that while i have been gaming long before Bioware came into existance (admittedly not too long Ain't THAT old) I do not give business out of charity, never have, never will.

Don't care for a game? I return it.

I have NEVR returned a bioware purchase (was tempted with Mass Effect 3) 

Point of it is; Gamers, Potential Gamers need to do their own research like most gamers.

They shouldn't be coddled, Speical Interest Groups shouldn't be coddled, This entertainment not a Soap Box.

[TK514]

Wulfram wrote...

TK514 wrote...

Re: BioWare in specific - Name a BioWare RPG that hasn't allowed gender choice.

Sonic Chronicles?

(well, I'm guessing, not having played the game)

Gender choice even there, within the confines of the IP.  You could play both Amy Rose and Rouge, the Bat.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fandango9641 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Those are wonderful - thanks for the share. Were there any more?

Here you go.

Dwarf Noble:
images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/18200000/Dwarf-Noble-dragon-age-origins-18215310-1600-1200.jpg

Dalish Elf:
images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/12800000/Dragon-Age-Origins-dragon-age-origins-12845734-1600-1200.jpg

Human Noble:
blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/s/l/j/sljd/HumanNoble_wallpaper_full_1280x1024.jpg

Many thanks.

No problem. 

[byeshoe]

i'm guilty as charged. 
I bought fear effect 2 and xenosaga because- because there were women on the front covers Dx i was also very young.
I never played fear effect 1, and..actually xenosaga was in a game informer XD but still! i got that because of KOS MOS on the cover. Final fantasy X peaked my interest because of a picture of Yuna. sigh, since these times..I can say that I don't mind who's on the cover of what now.
Heck..I even skipped Planescape torment long ago because of not being able to be a girl, but many many years later, this year infact. I finally played it and Holygah, that is one amazing game are blackisle and bioware related?..or did they used to be a thing altogether? i always wondered this
WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY....is that I understand why you lot are trying to get to everyone that women should be advertised. 
As for the misunderstanding guys and girls, I know that it seems crazy that some people won't buy a game because of a certain aspect..but it's true. and it's kinda hard to get anyone to understand this..
x] I'm completely over that mindset thankfully, I can now play any game without caring who my main character's gender is. I just know that I gotta protect them, and get lost in the game that I play