472 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

CrustyBot wrote...

I would like for them to showcase the different possible races for the Inquisitor and show snippets of dialog where dialog changes according to the race and gender of your Inquisitor. I don't like the idea of using generic or iconic models in a game which is supposed to support extensive character creation.

"Your character, your choice" type of advertising.

Regardless, I don't think the issue is something worth losing sleep over.

That is about as constructive as I can get on the topic, so I'll leave it at that. 

^ This

[Sentinel358]

AresKeith wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

I would like for them to showcase the different possible races for the Inquisitor and show snippets of dialog where dialog changes according to the race and gender of your Inquisitor. I don't like the idea of using generic or iconic models in a game which is supposed to support extensive character creation.

"Your character, your choice" type of advertising.

Regardless, I don't think the issue is something worth losing sleep over.

That is about as constructive as I can get on the topic, so I'll leave it at that. 

^ This

Yes^^

[BubbleDncr]

I actually re-watched that video as well yesterday and got a little annoyed at that part - would have liked to see some of the female Inquisitor armor concepts. If I knew nothing about Dragon Age - I would not know I could play as a female character after watching that video.

That said - someone who knows nothing about the game could also easily have left the E3 trailer thinking that Cassandra was the player character.

I personally think its the perfect time for Bioware to use the female character as their marketing standard, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

[andar91]

Veruin wrote...

I'll say this and leave.

Ads and trailers are not here to make the current fanbase feel good about themselves.

I'm not concerned about the current fanbase. I'm concerned about women who might never glance twice at the game, but who might genuinely enjoy it for any number of reasons if they are at least actively invited to play.

[Susty Randusky]

why would anyone play an inquisitor that doesn't resemble 3PAC son?

[AutumnWitch]

Funny I after I played DAO (late to the game) I looked for a sequel and all the stuff I came across had the Male Hawke so I didn't buy it. A month or so later I went to Wikipedia and looked the game up and there it said you could be either.

So as real demographic sales goes, I am living proof that if I don't see somewhere in the advertising a female option in an RPG game I won't buy and I didn't. Keep in mind I freaking LOVED DAO but still wouldn't buy DA2 without the femHawke option.

It just happened that even tho there was some material out there with the female Hawke at the time I didn't come across it as easily and only by chance did I give it another look.

There needs to be obvious media out there to support both models if they want to maximize their revenue.

Modifié par AutumnWitch, 07 février 2014 - 01:26 .

[Fast Jimmy]

andar91 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

I'll say this and leave.

Ads and trailers are not here to make the current fanbase feel good about themselves.

I'm not concerned about the current fanbase. I'm concerned about women who might never glance twice at the game, but who might genuinely enjoy it for any number of reasons if they are at least actively invited to play.

I hate to play devil's advocate, but there is the very real possibility that there is a potential male customer out there who only sees the female trailer and, for the same reason a female might pass on a male-only trailer, the male might pass on the game after seeing only the female trailer.


I'm for ambiguity, across the board. Showcase the ability to create your own character, choose your own class/race/gender/whatever and then make choices that shape the world with your customized character.

Having a "set" or "canon" character just for marketting is harmful, since it marginalizes one of the biggest aspects of the game - not that you can play as a male or female, but that you can completely create and customize your character entirely.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 07 février 2014 - 01:30 .

[Grieving Natashina]

Last thought: Why not show both? And on the box itself, show the helm and a logo. No gender/race needed.

[spirosz]

discosuperfly wrote...

OP has a valid point regarding new players to the DA series being made aware of the possibility of playing as a either gender. I play mostly female characters and avoid purchasing games that restrict my PC's gender to male, which is why I avoided buying ME for quite some time because I wasn't aware Shep could also be female.

Were you aware of Bioware and their usual RPG standard of male and female leading roles? 

[Jonathan Seagull]

Starsyn wrote...

Veruin wrote...

This sh-t again?

The OP has a valid point, but it is a frequent topic.  Fair warning to the OP: These threads rarely end well.  I fully support female PC in marketing and have debated passionately on the subject.  I know I'm not alone on this, and neither are you.  Just grab your flame retardant suit and be prepared.

The topic does come up fairly often, but on the other hand, no one is forcing anyone to read it. If someone finds the topic repetitive, they're under no obligation to read it.

If one has an issue with someone else politely seeking greater representation (whether it be for women or another minority), then...sorry. The OP should not have to feel as though they've done something wrong by asking. If others can't respond to it in a civil and mature way, and without acting as though more equal visibility is some sort of ridiculous notion that they're tired of putting up with hearing about, that's on them.

[AutumnWitch]

Starsyn wrote...

Last thought: Why not show both? And on the box itself, show the helm and a logo. No gender/race needed.

That would be best IMO but some people are so scared of putting off the "golden demographic" whatever that freaking is, that we all know is a falsehood with BW games anyway.

[mopotter]

Veruin wrote...

I'll say this and leave.

Ads and trailers are not here to make the current fanbase feel good about themselves.

Agree.  they are made and shown to get new gamers.  Some of those are women and I've known some, myself included, who don't buy games if they can't play a female character.  If it's not advertised somewhere, they won't sell as many games at full price.  I picked up FA 3 a year or so past the release date because I didn't know I could play a woman.  

Missing some new players because you don't advertise something that is in the game and can be shown when they display information about the character creation is just bad marketing.  

[smoke and mirrors]

I would love to see the Female Inquisitor in marketing and all the other races as well . I think BW is pushing the boundaries as much or more that other companies but it still takes time . We did see Fem Hawk in vid`s but it did take a while .

[Fast Jimmy]

AutumnWitch wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Last thought: Why not show both? And on the box itself, show the helm and a logo. No gender/race needed.

That would be best IMO but some people are so scared of putting off the "golden demographic" whatever that freaking is, that we all know is a falsehood with BW games anyway.

DA:O and DA:A both had no protag on the cover. Only a blood splatter icon.

DA2 was the first (and hopefully only) that did. 


Again, a CGI trailer is going to be seen by more people than a box cover. Make the CGI showcase the ability to make your own character - male, female, elf, qunari, warrior, mage... make THAT the selling point. Not have Canon Male Inquisitor (undoubtedly human) and Canon Female Inquisitor (again, human) be there, defining things for the player that have no purpose in being defined, other than to downplay perhaps one of the most important and resource intensive features of the game.

[mopotter]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

how about just Dragon Age: Inquistion with the cloaked figure on the box. So its Uni-sex advertising.

Honestly i don't give a $@%@$ about whats on the cover of the box. Because honestly here is what is going to happen, Put a woman on the cover and you will get people "Using sex to sell the title" While others will say "yay female on box cover yay womens 'rights' "

And if they use a male one, "Boo, BW is a sexiest company who are propousfully keeping the glass ceiling in place"

And every manner of comments in between.

My favorite BW covers KOTOR and Jade Empire.  

[Orian Tabris]

Sentinel358 wrote...

Its a minor detail that they missed, its an honest mistake. During the panels someone in the crew said "he" and was corrected by Mike Laidlaw i believe responding with "or she". Its not something to make a big deal out of since Bioware has always done a good job of not favoring one gender

Yes, because using a male Warden and a male Hawke in the trailers, and demonstrating/showing what can be done in Inquisition with a male Inquisitor is doing a good job of not favouring one gender.

I noticed in the current trailer that they never showed the Inquisitor. If I recall correctly, one of the devs once said that they use males in trailers to appeal to people more likely to be interested in the game(s). This was in a really early thread where someone offered having a female Inquisitor in the trailer, so I could have gotten this entirely wrong. Again, if I recall correctly, it was Chris Priestly who said it. So my guess is they didn't want to use a female Inquisitor, but wanted to avoid contention, so decided to not have another male PC, either.

What I think BioWare should have done, was have two trailers. One made for mid 2013 advertising the game in September-November, where the Inquisitor is male, and one made for mid 2014 when they've decided on a release date (month, not day), with the Inquisitor being female.

[VaticanVice]

I don't disagree that I want the female Inquisitor to be featured in marketing.  In fact, I will point out that as a woman, I didn't buy Mass Effect until 2009 because I did not know that Shepard could be female.  It really does impact my desire to play a game.  That said, I don't think that the exclusion of female PCs in marketing materials is malicious.  It should change--in fact, it's my opinion that for the industry to move forward it must change--but I won't be surprised or even especially angry if it doesn't change for this game.

I also think that awareness of gender selection is helped by awareness of race selection.  I can't think of a game off the top of my head in which you could select your race but not your gender.

The folks at Bioware seem to be some of the most progressive in the industry when it comes to issues of gender and sexuality.  It would sure be nice for the female Inquisitor to get a nod--even nicer if she got a CG trailer.  Inquisition seems like the ideal game to do something like that, because it's a return to greater choice in building your character.  Perhaps we'll see marketing materials in which the Inquisitor changes gender and race from scene to scene, to emphasize customization.  But I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Fast Jimmy]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Sentinel358 wrote...

Its a minor detail that they missed, its an honest mistake. During the panels someone in the crew said "he" and was corrected by Mike Laidlaw i believe responding with "or she". Its not something to make a big deal out of since Bioware has always done a good job of not favoring one gender

Yes, because using a male Warden and a male Hawke in the trailers, and demonstrating/showing what can be done in Inquisition with a male Inquisitor is doing a good job of not favouring one gender.

I noticed in the current trailer that they never showed the Inquisitor. If I recall correctly, one of the devs once said that they use males in trailers to appeal to people more likely to be interested in the game(s). This was in a really early thread where someone offered having a female Inquisitor in the trailer, so I could have gotten this entirely wrong. Again, if I recall correctly, it was Chris Priestly who said it. So my guess is they didn't want to use a female Inquisitor, but wanted to avoid contention, so decided to not have another male PC, either.

What I think BioWare should have done, was have two trailers. One made for mid 2013 advertising the game in September-November, where the Inquisitor is male, and one made for mid 2014 when they've decided on a release date (month, not day), with the Inquisitor being female.

We still haven't seen a trailer where there was a male or female Inquisitor. Just a obscured, cloaked figure.

If you are talking about the gameplay DEMO, that's a different story. There was only one and it was with a male. Mainly because recording demos takes a long asp time. I've done it before with web presentations and product demos - it takes a while to get everything organized, to create the same effects, to go through the same process... it's just a pain. I'd rather do ten live demos than have to sit down and plan a recorded one. 

[CuriousArtemis]

spirosz wrote...

If you're a gamer, female or male and want to purchase a game, do some research. I'm leaving it at that. I would love to see more advertisement with the female version, but at the end of the day, I do research before I purchase a game and of course, word of mouth.

Imagine a world where male gamers have to research a title before discovering that the game "allows" them to play as male as well as female...

[OdanUrr]

Here we go, again.

Look, OP, he probably used the pronoun "he" (actually he used the reflexive pronoun "himself" but that is neither here nor there) because he's a guy. When I write about Hawke, or Shepard, or the Warden, I more often that not refer to them as "he" (well, them but each is a he) because it's simpler than writing s/he, him/her, every two sentences. Some people refer to Hawke/Shepard/Warden as "she" and even some as "it." The latter are heretics, of course, and we don't talk about them.

More than his choice of reflexive pronoun I would agree with you that there was no footage of the female Inquisitor, be her an elf, dwarf, human, or qunari (Tal-Vashoth actually, but you get the point). Still, it's not like we're nearing the release of Inquisition and the marketing campaign is over. Give it time.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 07 février 2014 - 01:53 .

[Orian Tabris]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

Sentinel358 wrote...

Its a minor detail that they missed, its an honest mistake. During the panels someone in the crew said "he" and was corrected by Mike Laidlaw i believe responding with "or she". Its not something to make a big deal out of since Bioware has always done a good job of not favoring one gender

Yes, because using a male Warden and a male Hawke in the trailers, and demonstrating/showing what can be done in Inquisition with a male Inquisitor is doing a good job of not favouring one gender.

I noticed in the current trailer that they never showed the Inquisitor. If I recall correctly, one of the devs once said that they use males in trailers to appeal to people more likely to be interested in the game(s). This was in a really early thread where someone offered having a female Inquisitor in the trailer, so I could have gotten this entirely wrong. Again, if I recall correctly, it was Chris Priestly who said it. So my guess is they didn't want to use a female Inquisitor, but wanted to avoid contention, so decided to not have another male PC, either.

What I think BioWare should have done, was have two trailers. One made for mid 2013 advertising the game in September-November, where the Inquisitor is male, and one made for mid 2014 when they've decided on a release date (month, not day), with the Inquisitor being female.

We still haven't seen a trailer where there was a male or female Inquisitor. Just a obscured, cloaked figure.

If you are talking about the gameplay DEMO, that's a different story. There was only one and it was with a male. Mainly because recording demos takes a long asp time. I've done it before with web presentations and product demos - it takes a while to get everything organized, to create the same effects, to go through the same process... it's just a pain. I'd rather do ten live demos than have to sit down and plan a recorded one.

You may have missed something in my post, Jimmy. I will highlight it in red for you. The third paragraph was just an idea of what would have been better.

When you say "DEMO" you mean the 30 minute PAX demo with a male human Inquisitor? No, I wasn't referring to that, or any demo, for that matter.

[Veruin]

motomotogirl wrote...

Imagine a world where male gamers have to research a title before discovering that the game "allows" them to play as male as well as female...

I'm imagining a world where people research a game because they like it and not because of what may or may not be in the PC's pants.
 Totally breaking my oath buuuuut. 

Modifié par Veruin, 07 février 2014 - 01:55 .

[andar91]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

andar91 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

I'll say this and leave.

Ads and trailers are not here to make the current fanbase feel good about themselves.

I'm not concerned about the current fanbase. I'm concerned about women who might never glance twice at the game, but who might genuinely enjoy it for any number of reasons if they are at least actively invited to play.

I hate to play devil's advocate, but there is the very real possibility that there is a potential male customer out there who only sees the female trailer and, for the same reason a female might pass on a male-only trailer, the male might pass on the game after seeing only the female trailer.


I'm for ambiguity, across the board. Showcase the ability to create your own character, choose your own class/race/gender/whatever and then make choices that shape the world with your customized character.

Having a "set" or "canon" character just for marketting is harmful, since it marginalizes one of the biggest aspects of the game - not that you can play as a male or female, but that you can completely create and customize your character entirely.

Ambiguity or showcasing 2 characters of either gender would be fine by me--it's not excluding one of them, and the message would be fairly clear to all. 

I suppose ambiguity is safest in terms of marketing--but that isn't what they do. It's the male PC's who are featured in the trailers.

[Covi]

During the Mass Effect Retrospective they revealed that over 80% of players chose to play a male Shepard, even though Bioware is one of the most inclusive developers and had a FemShep marketing campaign. Male players are still in the majority, so it's no wonder if marketing decides to use a male protagonist in advertising. Other industries market their products primarily towards women, video games just happen to be male-dominated.