472 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

OperatingWookie wrote...

OperatingWookie you're missing the bigger issue. This is the type of mentality that the majority publishers believe in, that most male gamers will not purchase a game with a female protag, and in turn give developers heck for trying to make a game with one.

I find it hypocritical for people to give others flak over gender discrimination when they personally subscribe by it.

So wait... What you're saying is because many people are sexist, then it's okay?

Many people can be wrong too. Besides, I doubt the Bioware fanbase is the type to give tons of flak over a female protag being featured. This isn't a completely male fanbase we're talking about here anyway.

Nah. it's purchases over gender preference that the pubs believe (info gathered from focus groups) in regards to male gamers' preferences, which has also impacted the frequency of fem protags and marketing.

Don't get me wrong people can their preferences. Thought i noticed irony in some posts.

[Pasquale1234]

Thibax wrote...

OperatingWookie
I'm not against showing a female character. In my games, I create male and female characters. No problem for me.
I'm just questioning people who discriminate against an entertainment only by the fact of not having a man or woman as an example to present a product.
I'll play DAI regardless of who Bioware chose to be the Inquisitor in advertising.

Since the dawn of story-telling - literature, cinema, comics, gaming, etc. - most of the "heroes" have been male.  There has never-ever been a shortage of heroic male action heroes in any form of fiction.  The field is super-saturated with males, and anyone who consumes any form of action, adventure, fantasy, etc. entertainment media has had a steady diet of male heroes for forever.

Games featuring testosterone-fueled straight white men with stubble are a dime a dozen.  I see nothing in a brief exposure to them - such as a trailer - that would pique my interest.

HiroVoid wrote...

Guys need to know they can play a guy, so the solution to get more female gamers to play the game is to make it a really hot looking guy.

Strangely enough, I've never seen an ad campaign featuring bouncing pecs to garner a lot of sales.

And some people might like to know they can play a female protag, too.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 07 février 2014 - 08:54 .

[Gregolian]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

Gregolian wrote...

While I understand wanting to promote to both demographics there is something to be said that when making trailers/tv spots and the like... you can't jump between the Male and Female default characters in the same trailer, it'll confuse people that only have a passing interest.

As long as it's explained in the trailer (doesn't need voice work) than I don't think that is an issue. 

What I would vote to do is if we get a trailer like this:


Or this:


As long as it doesn't cost a crap ton they could possibly do one with the default male and one with the default female.

[The Hierophant]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Guys need to know they can play a guy, so the solution to get more female gamers to play the game is to make it a really hot looking guy.

Strangely enough, I've never seen an ad campaign featuring bouncing pecs to garner a lot of sales.

I don't know about pecs? But Kmart had this raunchy com a while back (takes brain bleach)

[Pasquale1234]

The Hierophant wrote...

I don't know about pecs? But Kmart had this raunchy com a while back (takes brain bleach)

Huge scandal, too - featuring men fully covered with formalwear topside, and big baggy boxers wiggling around a bit.  If it was successful for them, it was probably due to the scandal publicity and novelty.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Unlike Mass Effect, where it is more significantly about the character, the MC shouldn't be the focus in a DA trailer. Focus on the NPCs, the story, the areas, and the world itself. It worked just fine in DAO and nobody complained about that.

Okay, I'm lying there, I'm sure a lot of people complained about that, just like with everything.

I can kind of get the need for this, but at the same time I really just don't care. Maybe it's the constant bashing over the head with this thanks to Mass Effect and the whole never-ending FEMSHEP FEMSHEP FEMSHEP FEMSHEP lovefest online - when that's actually the minority.

Just do one big customization trailer where all the various options are shown off. Bang, done.

[BubbleDncr]

Covi wrote...

During the Mass Effect Retrospective they revealed that over 80% of players chose to play a male Shepard, even though Bioware is one of the most inclusive developers and had a FemShep marketing campaign. Male players are still in the majority, so it's no wonder if marketing decides to use a male protagonist in advertising. Other industries market their products primarily towards women, video games just happen to be male-dominated.

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

45% of gamers are female

Not enough of a difference to market games soley towards men. If only 20% of ME3 players played as femShep, it is possible that their marketing did not appeal to the other 25% of female gamers.

Femshep got her own trailer, sure, but it was a duplicate of trailer that had already come out (so players weren't seeing anything new, so not as big as a deal), and was not revealed at any point where people are definately going to see it (ie PAX, E3, the game announcment/launch). And she was on the box art IF you flipped your cover over after you bought it. It was pretty much all meant as appeasement/fanservice to femShep fans, not a marketing attempt at new female fans.

Modifié par BubbleDncr, 07 février 2014 - 09:46 .

[HiroVoid]

It's also possible that the percentage doesn't apply to specifically the demographic interested in WRPGs. I know I certainly don't go around buying new sports games even though I would still count as a gamer. Of course, I still agree that more publicity that the protagonist can be female would be good.

[EmperorSahlertz]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Covi wrote...

During the Mass Effect Retrospective they revealed that over 80% of players chose to play a male Shepard, even though Bioware is one of the most inclusive developers and had a FemShep marketing campaign. Male players are still in the majority, so it's no wonder if marketing decides to use a male protagonist in advertising. Other industries market their products primarily towards women, video games just happen to be male-dominated.

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

45% of gamers are female

Not enough of a difference to market games soley towards men. If only 20% of ME3 players played as femShep, it is possible that their marketing did not appeal to the other 25% of female gamers.

Femshep got her own trailer, sure, but it was a duplicate of trailer that had already come out (so players weren't seeing anything new, so not as big as a deal), and was not revealed at any point where people are definately going to see it (ie PAX, E3, the game announcment/launch). And she was on the box art IF you flipped your cover over after you bought it. It was pretty much all meant as appeasement/fanservice to femShep fans, not a marketing attempt at new female fans.

That study included games like farmvile, candy crush and other "facebook games", which obviously skewer the test results. "Faccebook gamers" are a very broad term, whereas a gamer would in general be consdiered a person who plays bigger games and are more dedicated to the "gaming culture".

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 07 février 2014 - 09:56 .

[BubbleDncr]

HiroVoid wrote...

It's also possible that the percentage doesn't apply to specifically the demographic interested in WRPGs. I know I certainly don't go around buying new sports games even though I would still count as a gamer. Of course, I still agree that more publicity that the protagonist can be female would be good.

Of course - the point I'm ultimately attempting to make is that the femshep marketing for ME3 wasn't really directed at trying to attract new female fans, but as fan-service to existing female fans. And the argument that most gamers are male as a reason to not try to market to female gamers isn't really valid, since 45% of gamers are female.

There's plenty of games that don't interest me at all, that if they came out with trailers intended for female audiences, might actually catch my interest enough to try them out - simply because they changed their marketing strategy.

[BubbleDncr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That study included games like farmvile, candy crush and other "facebook games", which obviously skewer the test results. "Faccebook gamers" are a very broad term, whereas a gamer would in general be consdiered a person who plays bigger games and are more dedicated to the "gaming culture".

It never says in the study what type of games people are playing based on their gender, so the assumption that most of the females that it considers gamers are only playing facebook games is rather sexist.

[Zenbry]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Covi wrote...

During the Mass Effect Retrospective they revealed that over 80% of players chose to play a male Shepard, even though Bioware is one of the most inclusive developers and had a FemShep marketing campaign. Male players are still in the majority, so it's no wonder if marketing decides to use a male protagonist in advertising. Other industries market their products primarily towards women, video games just happen to be male-dominated.

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

45% of gamers are female

Not enough of a difference to market games soley towards men. If only 20% of ME3 players played as femShep, it is possible that their marketing did not appeal to the other 25% of female gamers.

Femshep got her own trailer, sure, but it was a duplicate of trailer that had already come out (so players weren't seeing anything new, so not as big as a deal), and was not revealed at any point where people are definately going to see it (ie PAX, E3, the game announcment/launch). And she was on the box art IF you flipped your cover over after you bought it. It was pretty much all meant as appeasement/fanservice to femShep fans, not a marketing attempt at new female fans.

That study included games like farmvile, candy crush and other "facebook games", which obviously skewer the test results. "Faccebook gamers" are a very broad term, whereas a gamer would in general be consdiered a person who plays bigger games and are more dedicated to the "gaming culture".

First of all if you consider yourself a gamer, then good on you. The world needs more people who play games. They exercise your imagination. Something everone needs in my opinion.

Secondly, the problem with that line of reasoning is that you seem to be assuming that "facebook gamers" are scewing female, and there is no evidence of that. The ability to choose gender for your hero is a feature of the game. I, for one, hope they celebrate it.

And third, we all love the games here. Lets try not to belittle a section of us by suggesting that they are not "real gamers". Kay?

[The Hierophant]

BubbleDncr the study makes no differentiation between the demographics of each platform. From a console/pc pub's pov it could be costly to think that 50% of the console or pc gamers are female, when the percentages could be divided between iphone/smartphone/tablet, console, social network, and pc.

If 25% (hypothetical) fem non cross platform gamers soley play iphone/smartphone games what good (aside from promoting equality inclusitivity) would the 50% mean to pubs of other platforms financially?

[KC_Prototype]

Unecessary post considering all WRPGs let you chose your gender. Fallout, TES, Mass Effect, Dragon's Dogma, Kotor 1 & 2, KOA, etc. He said he because most pop culture protagonist are male, it's not that women aren't protagonist, just the male to female ratio in movies and games is one-sided.

[Writ3Wing3r]

I am both shocked and appalled that Inquisition does not allow you to play as a female.

[Pasquale1234]

The Hierophant wrote...

BubbleDncr the study makes no differentiation between the demographics of each platform. From a console/pc pub's pov it could be costly to think that 50% of the console or pc gamers are female, when the percentages could be divided between iphone/smartphone/tablet, console, social network, and pc.

If 25% (hypothetical) fem non cross platform gamers soley play iphone/smartphone games what good (aside from promoting equality inclusitivity) would the 50% mean to pubs of other platforms financially?

I would suggest that you would see a lot more females playing games on all platforms if devs made more effort to market to them.  Console gaming is one area that still feels like a boys' club, where girls aren't invited or welcome.  It's high time that changed.

[Wulfram]

The number David Gaider gave for Dragon Age specifically (16:30 in this video) was 30% female. I'm not sure if that's characters or players, but either way it's a relevant number.

And here's an article with interesting numbers mentioned. It says 31% of Playstation 3/Xbox 360 audience is female.

[Inprea]

KC_Prototype wrote...

Unecessary post considering all WRPGs let you chose your gender. Fallout, TES, Mass Effect, Dragon's Dogma, Kotor 1 & 2, KOA, etc. He said he because most pop culture protagonist are male, it's not that women aren't protagonist, just the male to female ratio in movies and games is one-sided.

The Witcher doesn't, Red Dead redeption, Darksiders and vampire the masquerade redemption etc don't.  Your claim that all western rpgs let you choose your character gender is simply a lie. I know I would have been quite upset if I had purchased The Wticher thinking all western rpgs let me choose a female protagonist only to be stuck with a male.

[HiroVoid]

You're right in that all WRPGs don't let you choose, but I'm pretty sure I've never heard anyone say Red Dead Redemption is an RPG......or Darksiders for that matter.

[Red Panda]

KC_Prototype wrote...

Unecessary post considering all
WRPGs let you chose your gender. Fallout, TES, Mass Effect, Dragon's
Dogma, Kotor 1 & 2, KOA, etc. He said he because most pop culture
protagonist are male, it's not that women aren't protagonist, just the
male to female ratio in movies and games is one-sided.

Those aren't all the WRPG games out there...

Witcher, Two Worlds, Might and Magic: Dark Messiah, etc.

You are a tad incorrect.


Let's think about the trailers released for any game for the past 10 years. Almost all of them are male
This is clearly further evidence of the sexist viewpoint of the gaming iindustry: that only males play more involved games. This is false.

Wulfram wrote...

The number David Gaider gave for Dragon Age specifically (16:30 in this video) was 30% female. I'm not sure if that's characters or players, but either way it's a relevant number.

And here's an article with interesting numbers mentioned. It says 31% of Playstation 3/Xbox 360 audience is female.

Besides, if women are one third of the Dragon Age fanbase, why wouldn't you try to market to that group? Must we make every trailer another male-centric power fantasy?



It makes sense to me that you'd actually, you know, care about that large portion.

Modifié par OperatingWookie, 07 février 2014 - 11:19 .

[mopotter]

Star fury wrote...

So, do blondes female gamers play games because of their quality? Or do they play a game just because there is a female protagonist there?

Both.  A game with the female option that is enjoyable.  If you find you enjoy playing just  the opposite sex for oh 20 years or so good, enjoy yourself.  I'm tied of it.  As for hair color, I've had every color including blond and green and starting on gray now if I don't pick up a box of Garnie dark golden blond r or  Loreal medium chestnut or who knows, maybe i'll go for the Morticia look.

[HiroVoid]

Some (in fact, a lot) of people only play games where they can project themselves on to the protagonist. Not anything wrong with people not playing a game because the character is of the opposite sex because that's a deal breaker.

[mopotter]

General TSAR wrote...

Quill74Pen wrote...
A good business does indeed cater to its existing customer base — but it's also always looking to expand that base. And, the fact is, more and more women are becoming gamers every year.

True, but if this is also true:

So according to Bioware data a number of female players declined from ME2 to ME3(20% to 18%).

Then it is better to focus on the existing customer base.

So you never get any new ones right off the bat because you are always focusing on current ones.  Does not sound like a great marketing option.  But I'm just a consumer not in the marketing business.