472 réponses à ce sujet

[Red Panda]

HiroVoid wrote...

Some (in fact, a lot) of people only play games where they can project themselves on to the protagonist. Not anything wrong with people not playing a game because the character is of the opposite sex because that's a deal breaker.

So of that one third of fans that are female and play Dragon Age, it'd not be too far out there to guess that some wouldn't mind, you know, being acknowledged?

Maybe, if there is to be marketing with a female protagonist, which there should be, then perhaps Bioware can attract more of the female playerbase on each respective platform, instead of just providing more of the same male-centric trailers.

[HiroVoid]

mopotter wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Quill74Pen wrote...
A good business does indeed cater to its existing customer base — but it's also always looking to expand that base. And, the fact is, more and more women are becoming gamers every year.

True, but if this is also true:

So according to Bioware data a number of female players declined from ME2 to ME3(20% to 18%).

Then it is better to focus on the existing customer base.

So you never get any new ones right off the bat because you are always focusing on current ones.  Does not sound like a great marketing option.  But I'm just a consumer not in the marketing business.

Well, the thing to keep in mind there is that ME3 sold a good bit more than both ME2 and ME if I remember right.  It also put more of an emphasis on the shooter audience Bioware's been after a while that I would simply be guessing is skewed towards a larger male audience.

[The Hierophant]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I would suggest that you would see a lot more females playing games on all platforms if devs made more effort to market to them.

The sales would also be dependant on the purchaser's mentality towards console gaming, preference towards the game's genre, the character's persona, on top of the cost of the platform.

Console gaming is one area that still feels like a boys' club, where girls aren't invited or welcome. It's high time that changed.

In time. I think the disproportionate sales towards males is a social holdover from 80s and 90s media like film, magazines, and television that portrayed the platform as a boy's toy while men were considered man children or geeks until it became socially okay (debateable) for men with the advent of the PS1.

Mind you, there were a multitude of titles with female protags during the 5th and 6th console generations but it seems they've regressed during the seventh (360,PS3).

Modifié par The Hierophant, 08 février 2014 - 12:47 .

[Ianamus]

HiroVoid wrote...

Some (in fact, a lot) of people only play games where they can project themselves on to the protagonist. Not anything wrong with people not playing a game because the character is of the opposite sex because that's a deal breaker.

I don't really buy it though. There are so many games where the protagonist is not human, and is a demon/robot/alien and so on. How is projecting yourself onto a different species easier than projecting yourself onto a female human?

And besides, while it is not a problem in itself the fact that >90% of video game pritagonists are male is a problem, and that problem partially stems from the above. 

Modifié par EJ107, 07 février 2014 - 11:31 .

[HiroVoid]

OperatingWookie wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Some (in fact, a lot) of people only play games where they can project themselves on to the protagonist. Not anything wrong with people not playing a game because the character is of the opposite sex because that's a deal breaker.

So of that one third of fans that are female and play Dragon Age, it'd not be too far out there to guess that some wouldn't mind, you know, being acknowledged?

Maybe, if there is to be marketing with a female protagonist, which there should be, then perhaps Bioware can attract more of the female playerbase on each respective platform, instead of just providing more of the same male-centric trailers.

I would think that the amount of work Bioware puts into female pcs would show that Bioware acknowledges its female fanbase, and the trailers always simply try to find a way to attract the largest potential customers while trying not to detract the current fanbase.  Also, can't remember who said it, but I thought the point was to market in a way to get new female customers and not to just make something to appease or satisfy the female fanbase like the ME3 marketing.

As for marketing itself, I've already said that I think marketing in a way that females watching the trailers know they can play a female protagonist would be a good thing.

[The Hierophant]

Also, female pcs on principle should be marketed regardless as it details the customization feature of the game.

After ME3 people should have some trust in Bio/EA's marketing department. Though you may never know sometimes.

[OrayMoor]

Would it actually bother anybody if Bioware did one original trailer with a female protagonist? I mean one trailer shouldent really bother the male fun base and it will really please the female fun base. And one of the reasons I like the witcher less then Biowares games was that I couldent play a female, I would have much ratherd playing the Triss Merigold...

[KaiserShep]

Heh, fun base. I'm 12. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 février 2014 - 11:56 .

[Nefla]

I think a trailer that shows off the CC as well as the PC making choices, dialogue options, and class specific combat moves would be most effective. Anyone that sees character customization and RP as important would know it's in the game, and anyone who doesn't want to swap genders will know they don't have to.

[HiroVoid]

Nefla wrote...

I think a trailer that shows off the CC as well as the PC making choices, dialogue options, and class specific combat moves would be most effective. Anyone that sees character customization and RP as important would know it's in the game, and anyone who doesn't want to swap genders will know they don't have to.

I think the big problem here though is that that's still just gameplay trailers that people already insterested in the game look at.  It's not the big CG trailer of Hawke fighting the Arishok that actually hits the mainstream tv commercials or big premier trailers that people watch more.

[mopotter]

Thibax wrote...

Some girls do not play a game because it hasn't a female representative in marketing? Really?
And books, movies and TV series? They also will not read or watch because it hasn't a female character who represent the content?

Is a kind of childish thinking?

Everything in the whole world now need to show both male and female characters?

Then if they show both white male and female, will you call the game racist? Again, they need to show both couples?

But if the both characters are blond. Oh God, what about the brunettes?

Let's make a cover for DAI with all possible characters. Nobody will cry.

Ignoring most of this.  Been covered.

The best covers, imo,  didn't have any of the main characters on it.  KOTOR, Jade Empire, Never Winter Night, Baldur's Gate, and even the first Dragon Age just had a vague character with the dragon.  

The trailers, don't need a "special" male or female lead.  IMO they need to focus on the things that make their games great.  Story, NPC's, character creation and how much you can do with it, this is where they would let new gamers know they can be the elf, human, dwarf, male, female.  Show some beards, scars, hair, show some armor and mage robes.  Give them a little tiny bit of dialogue and the idea that you the gamer person can  "Create and guide the Inquisitor however you please" which may not be true but if it is they should brag about it .  

[Gold Dragon]

My opinion:

Later on, but before release, they should release 4 gameplay trailers.  Each trailer will focus on one race, but will show both genders in each.  I think they actually did this for Origins.

Racial and Gender options shown.  Customization of each up to the player.

[Thibax]

Discosuperfly, I don't want to label you.
And not just because it's a man in the trailer means that I identify with him.
There are several types of men, and there are also several types of women.

Mopotter, yes, the cover can be a dragon or a scenario, it's not necessary to be a specific character.
And I agree with trailer focus.

[mopotter]

Thibax wrote...

BeadyEyedTater, really?

then clarify me, since you are so smart to do it. I will read your explanation.

And yes, I really don't understand why a person don't play, read or watch something because there is not a main character with a gender specific.

I can understand if you don't like something about theme, gameplay or visual.
But to no appreciate something because there is not a man or woman in the front?

I see people as people, not as man or woman. I don't discriminate.
But looks like others love to determines this kind of stuff.

i'm sorry you don't understand and I hope this doesn't take us off topic too much.   I don't know how old you are so don't know if you remember the games from the 80's and 90's.  These are just a few I played back then - All of the early Zelda, Some of the Super mario Brothers, Dragon Warrior, some of the early Final Fantasy games including X and )X-2 which really wasn't that bad, Kings Quest, Chrono Trigger (loved it), Realmz (great) Castle vania, Wizards & Warriors, Gauntlet (yes, one is female), Nobunagas Ambition, I played Tomb Raider, didn't care for it.  Xenosaga was fun but a bit disturbing watching someone who was supposed to be in their 20s but looked 10. Not all, but most of the games I enjoyed had a male lead so I've played plenty of games as a guy and I'm tired of it. 

Then there was Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Night, KOTOR, Elder Scrolls series, Jade Empire, Fall Out series, Divinity II, Borderlands 1 & 2, Dragon Dogma Dark Arisen all the other BW games that let me play both sexes when I want to and I LOVED it.  I still play a male character but it's by choice not force.  

Books, TV, movies  - you can find female or male characters all over, so it's not relevent to this, which is about marketing a game that gives you so many ways to make your character what you want, not what I want, not what  David Gaider (whome I've adored ever since he gave the KOTOR females a nice written ending which I still have) wants, but what you the player wants.  And that you applies to each of us.  Maketing should make anyone who likes rpg's want to check it out further and they have often missed this.  

Modifié par mopotter, 08 février 2014 - 02:31 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Zenbry wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Covi wrote...

During the Mass Effect Retrospective they revealed that over 80% of players chose to play a male Shepard, even though Bioware is one of the most inclusive developers and had a FemShep marketing campaign. Male players are still in the majority, so it's no wonder if marketing decides to use a male protagonist in advertising. Other industries market their products primarily towards women, video games just happen to be male-dominated.

http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

45% of gamers are female

Not enough of a difference to market games soley towards men. If only 20% of ME3 players played as femShep, it is possible that their marketing did not appeal to the other 25% of female gamers.

Femshep got her own trailer, sure, but it was a duplicate of trailer that had already come out (so players weren't seeing anything new, so not as big as a deal), and was not revealed at any point where people are definately going to see it (ie PAX, E3, the game announcment/launch). And she was on the box art IF you flipped your cover over after you bought it. It was pretty much all meant as appeasement/fanservice to femShep fans, not a marketing attempt at new female fans.

That study included games like farmvile, candy crush and other "facebook games", which obviously skewer the test results. "Faccebook gamers" are a very broad term, whereas a gamer would in general be consdiered a person who plays bigger games and are more dedicated to the "gaming culture".

First of all if you consider yourself a gamer, then good on you. The world needs more people who play games. They exercise your imagination. Something everone needs in my opinion.

Secondly, the problem with that line of reasoning is that you seem to be assuming that "facebook gamers" are scewing female, and there is no evidence of that. The ability to choose gender for your hero is a feature of the game. I, for one, hope they celebrate it.

And third, we all love the games here. Lets try not to belittle a section of us by suggesting that they are not "real gamers". Kay?

I think that "facebook gamers" are pretty much 50/50 gender divition. However, I know that a lot of the people who plays facebook games extensively would enver be caught dead with some bigger game.
The "facebook gamers" and the "gamers" are two completely different demographics, so including the "facebook gamers" into the "gamers" demographic is going to give you inaccurate data, for the purpose of marketing your triple A game.

Personally I think that the term "gamer" is a bit archaic now-a-days, so I prefer not to use it, but I havn't thought up a decent replacement term for people who game a lot in their free time (or rather more than average). But for the purpose of this study it is what we have to go with.

[mopotter]

HiroVoid wrote...

Some (in fact, a lot) of people only play games where they can project themselves on to the protagonist. Not anything wrong with people not playing a game because the character is of the opposite sex because that's a deal breaker.

Agree,  When I was looking of some old games, i found a comment about Xenosaga from a guy who was upset because it featured a girl.  He seemed to think all games should feature guys.   One of the major reasons I've played so many BW games is they have both options, along with a good story and interesting NPCs

[slimgrin]

Veruin wrote...

I'll say this and leave.

Ads and trailers are not here to make the current fanbase feel good about themselves.

This. Male gamers have a greater presence in gaming, so they're going to target them. Ad campaigns are not centered around promoting social justice issues, they exist to garner as much attention as possible for the product. If targeting women was profitable, then that's what they would do.The important thing is we get a choice in the first place. I'd think that holds more importance than a marketing tactic.

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 février 2014 - 02:58 .

[Karach_Blade]

As a gamer guy with two younger sisters who love games as well, I say there needs to be equal focus on a Femquisitor. Also, there are plenty of people who actually want to see someone other than generic white guy trailer.

[Thibax]

I quite understand what you said.
But there are certain people who use discrimination to end discrimination.
And as I said before, I'm not against women being used to promote games.
And even if Bioware make a video with a female character, will not please everyone because there are various types of women. Could show other men too, don't you think? Why always the same type, isn't it?
Let's change.

[Fortlowe]

Targeting women isn't the issue. Targeting gamers is. Lara Croft certainly didn't have a problem getting an audience, regardless of gender. Neither did Samus Aran. Or Joanna Dark. I'd love to see a lady Inquisitor. Or a black one for that matter. Lots of folks enjoyed playing as Lee Everett, too.

The idea that marketing needs to pander to white males to sell their product isn't wrong. The idea that they have to use an image of a white male to do so is wrong.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 08 février 2014 - 03:25 .

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Bioware should promote what Dragon Age Inquisition is to the masses via adverts as opposed to just doing male and female.

So what is Dragon Age Inquisition about ? Let's list them out

1) Its primarily about the potential for chaos when people, groups and organizations in a world are in disarray and what does it take for a person to rise above all that.

2) What does it take for someone to start / found a group, expand and increase its power and influence ?

2) Large explorable areas in a massive world that is alive on its own. The world and the population in it change according to your action

3) Many companions and followers, each with own agenda and personalities

4) Interesting choices and decisions with lasting and meaningful consequences.

5) Highly customizable main character with the option to pick from either genders of the 4 races + multiple classes and backstories.

Since the game is about all of that shouldn't the marketing or advertising focus on that instead of sex differences ?

For Mass Effect and Dragon Age 2 it made some sense because you can only pick one character that is either human male or a human female. So Bioware's decision to have flippable covers for Mass Effect 3 and having Femshep trailer was brilliant.

However, will promoting sex difference between humans in Dragon Age Inquisition or even Dragon Age Origins when it was being promoted serve any purpose ? The game is not about that, the main characters are so much more than that. I feel that doing such a thing is shallow.

As for Cameron Lee's comments, he is not doing anything offensive or wrong. This is an RPG game. You tend to immerse yourself in it. Mr Lee would probably spend plenty of his time playing as a male character, thus immersing himself in that mindset. Which was why he probably used the word "he".

Modifié par The Sin, 08 février 2014 - 03:38 .

[kuro_sasori]

Some people already mentioned using the character creator to advertise the game and I consider it to be a good idea. In future trailers they should include a variety of characters with different facial features, skin tones and gender. That way people out there can see how much customization the game has, this way the devs can show female gamers and people from different backgrounds they are trying to cater to all the different people playing their games. I know targeting every single person is hard, so probably doing this would somehow assuage part of their clientele.