99 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Before the holokid nonsense and the dream kid nonsense there was the kid on earth. But having just replayed the opening I realized something I missed the first time around: Nobody else ever interacts or is even seen to acknowledge the kid.

First appearance- playing by himself outside Shepard's window. Shepard is in a government high-rise and the area around him does not appear to be residential. So where'd the kid come from?

Second appearance- the vents. Anderson never notices or asks what Shepard is looking at. He didn't hear the thumping or the kid speaking? Stealth Hi/Bye supports this.

Third appearance- kid getting on the shuttle. Again no one notices. He awkwardly climbs into the shuttle and no one freaks and tries to help him? Not even the soldier standing guard less than two feet away? If it was a real kid there'd be plenty of commotion (won't anyone think of the children) and they definitely wouldn't let him just stand at the shuttle's edge as it took off. Also the kid gets on and immediately locks eyes with Shepard in the midst of the chaos when the Normandy is a considerable distance away.  Not what a normal kid would do I think.

Conclusion: the kid is a figment of Shepard's imagination and a sign that he's breaking down. Fill in your own psychological details/ relevant backstory.

Also inb4 doesthisproveIT. And no, no it doesn't.

[AlanC9]

This again?

[Derpy]

This just prove Shepard is really crazy and is most likely making all of the reapur nonsense up and nobody knows what the freak the mental Shepard locked up in a jail cell is really saying. In fact all of the 3 games are not real, Shepard's crazy mind made them up and the story is him telling the cell guard random nonsense about stuff and the guard is completely clueless when Shepard mentions the different races, reapurz, geth and the alliance.

[dreamgazer]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Before the holokid nonsense and the dream kid nonsense there was the kid on earth. But having just replayed the opening I realized something I missed the first time around: Nobody else ever interacts or is even seen to acknowledge the kid.

First appearance- playing by himself outside Shepard's window. Shepard is in a government high-rise and the area around him does not appear to be residential. So where'd the kid come from?

Second appearance- the vents. Anderson never notices or asks what Shepard is looking at. He didn't hear the thumping or the kid speaking? Stealth Hi/Bye supports this.

Third appearance- kid getting on the shuttle. Again no one notices. He awkwardly climbs into the shuttle and no one freaks and tries to help him? Not even the soldier standing guard less than two feet away? If it was a real kid there'd be plenty of commotion (won't anyone think of the children) and they definitely wouldn't let him just stand at the shuttle's edge as it took off. Also the kid gets on and immediately locks eyes with Shepard in the midst of the chaos when the Normandy is a considerable distance away.  Not what a normal kid would do I think.

Conclusion: the kid is a figment of Shepard's imagination and a sign that he's breaking down. Fill in your own psychological details/ relevant backstory.

This is an idea that's been kicking around since the demo was released.  

For what it's worth, even after discussing it at length, I still agree.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 07 février 2014 - 05:06 .

[CronoDragoon]

It doesn't prove IT, you're right. But in an alternate scenario where BW actually went through with their blueprint for an ending containing indoctrination, it's possible they were toying around with the kid as one of the foreshadowed elements. Since we know BW did not intend to implement IT (Final Hours says it was scrapped) then formalistically (meaning regardless of authorial intent) it's either Shepard breaking down or it actually is a kid that just happens to not interact.

There are some things on Earth that might lead me to believe the former. The moment when Anderson calls to Shepard, and when Shepard looks back the kid is just gone without a sound, is bizarre. His line ("you can't help me") is also ridiculously unbelieve given the situation the kid is in...unless it's Shepard's subconscious. Then it makes sense. The precise manner in which it is presented can't really be explained by a traditional interpretation, if one feels an explanation is needed.

dreamgazer wrote...
This is an idea that's been kicking around since the demo was released. 

That thread also illustrates some drastic changes of opinion about the opening. Count the number of "it was emotional seeing him die" "they did a good job expressing the horror of war" "he's animated well" threads in that post compared to the amount of "he's so stupid why does Shepard auto-emote about him?" posts.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 07 février 2014 - 05:09 .

[CrutchCricket]

dreamgazer wrote...
This is an idea that's been kicking around since the demo was released. 

Well I didn't think it was a new idea.  But it is one I might be able to live with.

CronoDragoon wrote...
That thread also illustrates some drastic changes of opinion about the opening. Count the number of "it was emotional seeing him die" "they did a good job expressing the horror of war" "he's animated well" threads in that post compared to the amount of "he's so stupid why does Shepard auto-emote about him?" posts.

Keep in mind that was only the demo. If that's all you saw, sure it might be moving. But by the second first dream sequence you're already tired of it and wondering why only one kid haunts you when you've lost so much already, with the details of and reaction to the losses supposedly up to your roleplaying decisions.

[CronoDragoon]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Keep in mind that was only the demo. If that's all you saw, sure it might be moving. But by the second first dream sequence you're already tired of it and wondering why only one kid haunts you when you've lost so much already, with the details of and reaction to the losses supposedly up to your roleplaying decisions.

I'm not sure why people suggest the dreams are all about the kid. He's largely symbolic there, although I recognize Shepard talks about the kid specifically in a dialogue with (I think) Liara. Personally I never thought the dreams were about the kid so it wasn't a problem for my Shepard, who also would not have cared about one kid over all the other sacrifices that had been made.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 07 février 2014 - 05:51 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Not entirely sure why I never liked this idea much, might be that Shep's fantasizing about children even when awake...implications unpleasant.

[dreamgazer]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Not entirely sure why I never liked this idea much, might be that Shep's fantasizing about children even when awake...implications unpleasant.

Ew.

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...
That works even less when some players are more successful than others at avoiding "sacrifices". PTSD over virtually nothing. A three year old Virmire death, and Thane and Mordin. A terminally ill assassin and a rambling geezer.

Earth? Arrival? All the colonies the Collectors got to before Shep curbstomped them? Strictly speaking they weren't sacrifices but their deaths would still weigh on his psyche. (And in the case of Horizon they actually were sacrifices - by TIM).

[KrAzY WiSh]

This ground has been well trodden. I agree with the OP though, I've always thought the kid was imaginary too.

[Mr.House]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Not entirely sure why I never liked this idea much, might be that Shep's fantasizing about children even when awake...implications unpleasant.

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

Also, might've worked better if you actually got to help the kid for a time, get to talk to him.. then got seperated. That would've played better into Shepard's sense of failure, I think.

It's not so much a sense of failure as it is a sense of powerlessness and urgency. He's the first of many.

[CrutchCricket]

CronoDragoon wrote...
Earth? Arrival? All the colonies the Collectors got to before Shep curbstomped them? Strictly speaking they weren't sacrifices but their deaths would still weigh on his psyche.  (And in the case of Horizon they actually were sacrifices - by TIM).

So why aren't they in the dream? Or part of the dream?

People think the dreams are all about the kid because it's only ever the damn kid we see.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 07 février 2014 - 06:06 .

[dreamgazer]

CrutchCricket wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
Earth? Arrival? All the colonies the Collectors got to before Shep curbstomped them? Strictly speaking they weren't sacrifices but their deaths would still weigh on his psyche.  (And in the case of Horizon they actually were sacrifices - by TIM).

So why aren't they in the dream? Or part of the dream?

People think the dreams are all about the kid because it's only ever the damn kid we see.

Well, you do hear the voices of the dead in the dreams.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 07 février 2014 - 06:10 .

[CrutchCricket]

The vision if you fail Arrival was far more poignant in showing what could happen if Shepard fails. If he had a dream like that every night I'd be terrified.

Edit- dreamgazer: they're barelly intelligible. I stand by the above.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 07 février 2014 - 06:13 .

[dreamgazer]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Edit- dreamgazer: they're barelly intelligible. I stand by the above.

I don't agree.  I knew exactly what I was hearing.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Agreed with OP.

[wright1978]

CrutchCricket wrote...

....

Conclusion: the kid is a figment of Shepard's imagination and a sign that he's breaking down. Fill in your own psychological details/ relevant backstory.
...

In the words of the mighty Kryten:

".. none of this
exists. It's all in a fever. Except for you guys, who really do exist,
only you're not really here, you're really in some spaceship in the
future. Hell, if that's got to make sense, I don't wanna *be* sober. "