99 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

dreamgazer wrote...

I don't agree.  I knew exactly what I was hearing.

Doesn't change the fact that a random kid with zero connection to Shepard is still the centerpiece, while the people who are connected are shoved in the back as chorus, that some players won't even understand.

I shouldn't have to do mental gymanstics just to explain why he's there.

[Sebby]

It's poor emotional manipulation, that's all it is. I felt no more connection to the kid in ME3 than the one who dies at the beginning of the Raam DLC for Gears of War 3(which was the same deal).

[CrutchCricket]

Wasn't a problem of volume Miscellaneous Behind, it was a question of intelligibility. I found none.

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...
If you want to talk about colonists, sure.. that's definitely worth being troubled over.. but the dreams have nothing to do with that. It's crap. It has nothing to do with colonists, 300,000 dead batarians, 100s of Shepard's personal victims, etc.

edit: I want to state that in the way Mike Myers as the "old scottish guy" says it: "It's crap!"

So what are all the shadows in the dreams? The burnt trees? The voices? The dreams are clearly not meant to be "about the kid." They are about the death and destruction that have characterized Shepard's history (remember ME2's slogan? Fight for the lost?) and that more, much more is on the way. The kid is only a small part of that.

[TuringPoint]

Not to mention, the kid ends up in these three different places with remarkable speed.  

He's at the top of one building.  In the few minutes between that and the Reaper's attacking, he's seen in the vents in the next building over, near the top of the building even.  Unless he was crawling through the vents at the time of the attack, just playing or something, and unless there's a direct connection between from the top of one building to the top of the other... he's in Shepard's head.  It may be possible for him to work his way through the vents wayyy across several buildings, if they're connected, while Shepard is progressing and fighting husks and cannibals.  There is a fair amount of time Shepard is working his way to the extraction point, and just after he's leaving he sees the kid on the ground.

The kid was put there to represent something in shepard's mind, the loss of people on Earth.  It feels, and logically appears to be, all in Shepard's head.  An effect of his PTSD and who knows what else.  A little bit of exposure to Reaper "indoctrination waves."  Maybe if he'd stayed on Earth he would have been truly indoctrinated, and seeing the child was the start of that.

Maybe he saw the child playing on top of that building, but he didn't see him in the vents or extracting on the ground.  

Modifié par Alocormin, 07 février 2014 - 07:05 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I've always liked IT, and thought that it made for a much more interesting ending.

I didn't find out about it until after the extended ending, though, so I never thought it was canon.

[CrutchCricket]

CronoDragoon wrote...
So what are all the shadows in the dreams? The burnt trees? The voices? The dreams are clearly not meant to be "about the kid." They are about the death and destruction that have characterized Shepard's history (remember ME2's slogan? Fight for the lost?) and that more, much more is on the way. The kid is only a small part of that.

The shadows and voices are background. The kid is always front and center. You do the same thing in the dreams, regardless of how many shadows and voices there are. So how is it not about the kid?

If it was really about death and destruction, you'd see the places that got destroyed and the people that died, their faces flashing before your eyes again and again. Featureless faces perhaps, to indicate faceless masses gone each day. But no. You chase a damn kid in the woods every time. And yeah that sounds creepy. And no, I can't do anything about it.

[von uber]

StreetMagic, just out of interest are you from the US?

[TuringPoint]

It's not very obscure. After one of the dream sequences Shepard draws the connection, talking about "all those he's lost".

Dialogue was very insufficient in this series.  I think they used the kid for more universal appeal.  People coming into series for the first time wouldn't know or care about the past characters, not right off the bat.  Or else they just wanted a kid, to bring out the vulnerability of humanity.  Could've been any number of reasons.  But once they had the kid in the intro, they used this for the dream sequences.  They threw in dead crew-people saying "Shepard" in the background and covered all the bases.

Insufficiently, but they covered it.

Modifié par Alocormin, 07 février 2014 - 07:12 .

[Angry_Elcor]

I asked Freud what he thought. He said the dream was about my mother.

[von uber]

StreetMagic wrote...
Why?  Because I said "wankers"? And that's a British word?

You mean English, but yep

Modifié par von uber, 07 février 2014 - 07:08 .

[Daemul]

dreamgazer wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
Earth? Arrival? All the colonies the Collectors got to before Shep curbstomped them? Strictly speaking they weren't sacrifices but their deaths would still weigh on his psyche.  (And in the case of Horizon they actually were sacrifices - by TIM).

So why aren't they in the dream? Or part of the dream?

People think the dreams are all about the kid because it's only ever the damn kid we see.

Well, you do hear the voices of the dead in the dreams.

" And somewhere deep in the fabric of reality that choice will be remembered for eternity."-bPadok Wiks

Right before I shot him in the back when he tried to cure the genophage. You forced my hand friend. 

Padok Wiks >>>>>>>>>>> Mordin. 

Modifié par Daemul, 07 février 2014 - 07:10 .

[Invisible Man]

on my first playthrough when I saw the kid playing on the rooftop, I thought to my self... that generic kid is going to wind up as some kind of mental mascot, if not a flesh and blood one. sometime after the fact I figured it was a holdover form the dropped shepard is being indoctrinated plotline. though I can picture the kid as some kind of ptsd nightmare thingy. shepard was blown to bits & about as dead as you can make someone & still leave a corpse. that's got to be traumatic.

[TuringPoint]

We could take this further and maybe deduce that the first time he saw the kid, the kid might've been real the first time we see him, but not thereafter. If they intended him to be real, Anderson wondering what the heck Shepard was doing at the vents was a good way to cast doubt on that.

Assuming the kid was in his head, I think the most likely explanation is a lack of sleep. I'd be stressed out, maybe sleepless if I'd been through his stuff.

The sacrifices he's made, being killed and resurrected, being scarred by bullets and worse, and finally knowing the end was coming and not being able to stop it.

This was never elaborated and, generally lack of sleep, constipation, irritable bowel syndrome and such don't really play such an important role in a plot.

Also, maybe Shepard was exposed to indoctrination waves in this process, but not enough to fully indoctrinate him.  Maybe he responded in unusual ways to it, wasn't affected the same way as others.  

The kid was too important not to be symbolic though.  I'm not sure what burning trees has to do with it, but there are deliberate connections drawn between the kid and everyone he's lost.

Modifié par Alocormin, 07 février 2014 - 07:23 .

[Angry_Elcor]

StreetMagic wrote...

Angry_Elcor wrote...

I asked Freud what he thought. He said the dream was about my mother.

Huh. Funny. My dream was about your mother too.

I'll have you know that my mother was a saint, neveryoumind that she slept with every Volus in the embassy. That was a phase.

[Reigned]

CrutchCricket wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
So what are all the shadows in the dreams? The burnt trees? The voices? The dreams are clearly not meant to be "about the kid." They are about the death and destruction that have characterized Shepard's history (remember ME2's slogan? Fight for the lost?) and that more, much more is on the way. The kid is only a small part of that.

The shadows and voices are background. The kid is always front and center. You do the same thing in the dreams, regardless of how many shadows and voices there are. So how is it not about the kid?

If it was really about death and destruction, you'd see the places that got destroyed and the people that died, their faces flashing before your eyes again and again. Featureless faces perhaps, to indicate faceless masses gone each day. But no. You chase a damn kid in the woods every time. And yeah that sounds creepy. And no, I can't do anything about it.

Makes me think of the boss fight in MGS: 3 SnakeEater when you go against The Sorrow. For anyone that  barely remembers or has never played, Snake is sort of in a dream/death like sequence, where he trudges through a river, having to face every single person he's killed to that point in ghost/zombie form. It's pretty macabre to say the least, and the only way to truly win and wake up is to take your revival pill after you've 'died' from the enemies attacking you.

My point, even battle a battle hardened combat king like Snake had to face all of the broken necked, slit throat and gunned down victims of his past during that encounter. I just never understood myself, that a vet like Snake was, that Shepard couldn't help but just dream of this little boy he saw for less than five minutes...just MHO though.

[Daemul]

StreetMagic wrote...

Daemul wrote...

" And somewhere deep in the fabric of reality that choice will be remembered for eternity."-Padok Wiks

Don't worry. He's full of ****. Because, y'know, Shepard's dead and there will be no sequels or consequences, right?

Padok doesn't mean that there will be consequences for Shepard's actions, just that even if everyone forgets what Shepard did in that moment, it was always be rememebered in space and time. It's metaphysics.