32 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

I loved the framed narrative of Dragon Age 2, but something bugs me.

Did Varric really tell Cassandra every little detail that you see before your very eyes in the game?



Cassandra: Okay then what?
Varric: So Hawke was picking her party. She wanted a good strong tank to defend her, so she chose Aveline. Then she wanted a ....

Cassandra: I'm going to stop you there. I don't care. Can we just skip to the Deep Roads? 
Varric: You don't want to hear how Hawke and company killed 30,000 foes?
Cassandra: That is impossible!
Varric: When Varric is the story teller anything is possible.


Later on...

Varric: But there was too many Darkspawn. So we all died. I died on that day too.
Cassandra: For the 10th time, that did not happen!

Later on...

Varric: Then time froze. There was this loud buzzing noise that filled the caverns. We were literally paralyzed until the darkness filled the room. It was a scary time.
Cassandra: That did not happen!


Later on...

Varric: Then I clipped through the wall. It was scary. No one noticed that I was stuck inside the wall which had turned black. Then the floor below me turned blue. Blue!
Cassandra: Stop wasting my time!


Later on...

Varric: Hawke yet again ordered me to disable a lock on a chest that was to the bottom right of the room.  Inside was a bunch of new weapons. So Hawke spent the next 10 minutes  sorting out her equipment.

Cassandra: Get to the point Varric.

Varric: Cassandra. Why don't you care about the little details?
Cassandra: Did anything important happen in the Deep Roads?

Varric: Have you got another 30 minutes?
Cassandra: No!

2 hours later:

Varric: So Hawke and I were having a chat at the Hanged Man.
Cassandra: Another chat?
Varric: Yes. We were close buddies you see.
Cassandra: Is this important?
Varric: Lighten up. It was a funny conversation.
Cassandra: Funny but not important!
Varric: Precisely. Don't you find important details to be boring?
Cassandra: Not as boring as you telling me about Hawke going through her inventory for 10 minutes.


Will Dragon Age Inquisition have another framed narrative?
I just keep thinking to myself. Varric really did waste a lot of time telling this story.
Most of the events recounted had nothing to do with Varric's narrative.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 07 février 2014 - 06:38 .

[Naesaki]

I just chalk alot of it as gameplay and story segregation, Varric would have most likely glossed over the minor details and just stuck to the main facts that Cassandra wishes to know. Its most likely that Varric was only interrogated for a few hours.

If we only could do the main points Varric Covered it would have been an extremely short game

[TheExtreamH]

i read and pictured all that in the style of Varric and Cassandra. Quite funny. But onto the topic I don't think unless Inquisition is set in the past would a narrative work. Since the events in DA2 happened before we played them. But anything can happen.

[Naesaki]

I quite like "How we got here" type set ups, like as an example of how FF X is framed, with it starting with Tidus at the camp-fire in Zanarkand and he's telling his story of how he got there

I would like to see this type of setup in a DA game sometime, not necessarily this one but, future titles.

[LPPrince]

Nah, I don't think we'll see a framed narrative again.

[ObserverStatus]

Framed narratives can be pretty cool sometimes, I really liked Diablo II's.

[9TailsFox]

Thank you good sir you just made me laugh.
And said somewhere we don't have time jumps, and I doubt story will be told from second person perspective even if we have Varric.

[Abraham_uk]

One of the Prince of Persia makes a joke about framed narratives.

If you die, the protagonist who is telling the story will outright say in a confused tone of voice "that didn't happen".


Also there is a nice framed narrative joke in Assassin's Creed games. If you kill innocent people you get a message that outright tells you that this didn't happen. Makes me wonder, what Desmond Miles is doing. Does he sometimes mess around just to annoy the Shaun Hastings?

The assassin goes on a rampage killing innocent civilians.

Shaun: Oh stop it! Please Desmond. Just try to remember what happened!
Desmond: Fine. I'll behave. Sigh. Times like this make me wish I was a globe trotting treasure hunter.

The assassin goes on another rampage.

Shaun: Right that's it. Desynchronized. We need to talk!





Good thing Inquisition is not a framed narrative. I want to feel like the events of the story are happening now. Especially given the apocalyptic nature of the game.

The Warden does stuff.
The Inquisitor does stuff.
Hawke DID stuff!

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 07 février 2014 - 07:26 .

[Melca36]

Developers have already said the next game would not have one.

[esper]

Framed narratives are awesome, espically in rpg's where they can be used to make decision over timeskips and passages where nothing happens or even show more reactivity to what does happens.

We could have for example picked a 'what did we do in the three years' and so forth.

That said, bioware sort of dropped the ball with the framed narrative in da2 and I don't think they should pick this ball up again, because it sort of crashed into a thousand pieces with how hard they dropped it.

Modifié par esper, 07 février 2014 - 07:46 .

[KC_Prototype]

LOL! But I think this game takes the narrative style of DA:O.

[Iakus]

esper wrote...

Framed narratives are awesome, espically in rpg's where they can be used to make decision over timeskips and passages where nothing happens or even show more reactivity to what does happens.

Yep.  Alpha Protocol handled a framed narrative very well.

[Orian Tabris]

I know for a fact that Inquisition will NOT be a framed narrative. Laidlaw said that they were going to explore a different way of storytelling, that the framed narrative is only one way of telling a story, but that there are many other ways of doing it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Abraham_uk wrote...

The Warden does stuff.
The Inquisitor does stuff.
Hawke DID stuff!

Hawke might have done stuff.

Remember, Varric was an unreliable narrator.

[HiroVoid]

The only truly unique way of story telling I think I've ever seen is Virtue's Last Reward.

[In Exile]

iakus wrote...


Yep.  Alpha Protocol handled a framed narrative very well.

Alpha Protocol also concluded in the present and, in doing so, wrapped up the "Present" arc. DA2 didn't. 

[superdeathdealer14]

I think BioWare said that DAI will lean more towards DA:O's Make your own story to that of DA2's The story is being told for you route.

Modifié par superdeathdealer14, 08 février 2014 - 02:13 .

[CybAnt1]

Remember, Varric was an unreliable narrator.

Particularly, it seems, when discussing his own role within the story.

Like when he went into the mansion in Hightown, said "I'm not getting a raw deal," and took down a whole horde of ninjas single-handedly with Bianca. 

OK. He did go there with Hawke & 2 other people. But the former sounded much more cool.

... I will say that the unreliable narrator framing device allows you to have some mini-episodes in the game that might be fun to play (like that), but ... may not have really happened. 

Of course, yes, it also allows them to later on, suggest, perhaps even within DA:I, that some other things Varric told Cassandra ... 'may not have really happened' either. Especially the whole "mysterious disappearance of Hawke" at the end? 

Since they're now both party-NPCs in DA:I, this could lead to an interesting argument. 

[Maria Caliban]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Did Varric really tell Cassandra every little detail that you see before your very eyes in the game?

No.

Will Dragon Age Inquisition have another framed narrative?

Not that we know of.

[Rotward]

I see your, "Varric told her every detail," and counter with, "Varric only told her what we saw in the cut scenes."

Everything else is just flashbacks

[In Exile]

superdeathdealer14 wrote...

I think BioWare said that DAI will lean more towards DA:O's Make your own story to that of DA2's The story is being told for you route.

DA:O was definetly a story being told for you. 

[Bfler]

ME3 is also a story told by an elder alien to a young one.

[In Exile]

EntropicAngel wrote...
You think so? I found the idea that I was supposed to interact with this person who I didn't even know yet, but who the character obviously knew, quite confusing. It was a bit difficult to be consistent in who I "was" with him (the whole reputation system) when you find out nearer the end of the game that the beginning who he is (if you do Moscow first, anyway).

Obsidian doesn't really get character-driven RP, in the sense that people get a sense of their character as they're exposed to choices and decisions in-game. You see this in KoTOR 2 much more, but they also do it in NWN2. And Planescape is nothing but this approach to gaming, but at least you sensibly have amensia in that game. If anything, Obsidian has this thing about re-using stuff from Planescape in every game they do. 

I do see what you mean about not knowing anything about Leland (did Moscow last my first time around and Rome first, so I didn't run into this problem). He also tended to like me because my toon was very "big picture" oriented.