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[Han Shot First]

We've had a couple threads recently about the role of biotics in combat and their strengths and limitations, and it got me thinking how biotics would alter or affect small unit tactics.

In the real world small unit infantry tactics are dominated by the machine gun. Fire teams and squads are organized around them, and all small unit tactics revolve around them. You're either attempting to get your own machine guns into a position to do the most damage, suppressing an enemy so that maneuver element can outflank them, or you're seeking to eliminate the enemy's own machine guns. Probably all three at once. I'm simplifying things a bit but that really is the basis for all small unit tactics.

That isn't likely to have changed in the Mass Effect universe. The equipment is somewhat more advanced than what we currently use today, but its function is essentially the same. It isn't a radical departure from the weapons of today and thus the tactics crafted around them are going to be the same. A machine gun is still a machine gun regardless of whether it operates by belt-fed 7.62mm NATO rounds or uses thermal clips and mass accelerators and grain-sized steel shavings.

How does that relate to biotics?

Unlike the technological improvements to assault rifles and machine guns biotics do have the potential to alter small unit tactics somewhat.  At least at short range biotics are going to be as great of a threat as the machine guns and thus they are going to get the same high priority in deployment / protection / elimination. How much biotics alter small unit tactics would depend however on how common they are.

Is it ever stated in the games or in any of the books or comics how common biotics are among species that aren't biotic across the board, like pretty much everyone except the Asari? Would there be enough biotics that you could have one per fire team, just as you have one machine gun per fire team? If not, would there be enough for one per squad? In either case the inclusion of biotics at this very basic level would likely greatly alter small unit tactics. Tactics would now revolve around biotics as much they currently do around machine guns.

Or would they be too rare for either of those scenarios, and instead be specialized units (squads or platoons perhaps?) within a Weapons Company or a H & S Company that would be detached on an individual basis from the parent company and attached to line companies as needed? (sort of like snipers or anti-tank elements) In that scenario the machine gun would still remain the primary basis for small unit tactics, as the employment of biotics would be more situational.

In game with the Turian cabals and the units Jack and Kaiden were in command of, we do see some specialized biotic units. Still I'd have to expect that this would generally be the exception rather than the rule, as it would be the equivalent of fielding entire companies or platoons full of machine guns or snipers. Deploying en masse like that would ultimately an inefficient use of your personnel. You'd get more bang for your buck by spreading them out amongst the line companies.

[Invisible Man]

as far as I know biotics are rare, biotics who are powerful enough to be useful in combat are rarer still.

---edit
though the mass effect games don't seem to follow this pattern.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 08 février 2014 - 01:07 .

[Iakus]

Biotics are only common among the asari. All asari have at least some biotic ability, though not all choose to develop it.

Krogan, it seems can only gain useful biotic ability through risky surgeries, which have not been performed since the Krogan Rebellions (can't risk themselves that way anymore) so you don't see any young biotics among them.

As for the other species, functioning biotics seem to be rare. Though humans seem to have more potential than most.

But the problem with biotics is, aside from the risks of being exposed to eezo to develop the abilities in the first place, is the energy it demands from the user. Biotic in the Alliance Navy run on a 4500 calorie/day diet, and are issued a canteen of potent energy drink when going into combat. Biotics would be a useful ace in the whole, or for situational circumstances. But biotic abilities are a tool for short bursts. Sustained biotics are not a viable strategy.

So among humans, having a biotic specialist or two in a squad or platoon standard might someday be possible, but whole units like Jack's students would be unlikely unless things got really dire. The upkeep would simply be too much.

[themikefest]

you remember that stupid comment in ME1? Have you ever seen an asari commando unit before? Few humans have. That's because they aren't worth a damn.

It should be more like Shepard and humanity saying to the asari, Have you ever seen a human commando unit before? Few asari have.

With a machine gunner(s) they would tear apart thier barriers very easily leaving them open for an easy kill. Biotics might be good in a few spots and for a short time, but overall they won't be able to handle small arms fire along with explosives for any extended period of time.

Modifié par themikefest, 08 février 2014 - 01:31 .

[cap and gown]

Judging by the gameplay, small unit tactics in the 22nd century will need to be dramatically altered since self-preservation has apparently been bred out of every species in the galaxy. Watching a Salarian Engineer charge straight at me in LotSB, or an Eclipse Merc in Dantius Towers, without regard for the fact that he/she is being shot to pieces points to the inability to use suppressive fire in the 22nd century. (How all these species managed to lose their self-preservation instinct is a mystery.) With that in mind, biotics would rule since you would simply toss out Singularities to keep the on-rushing beserkers under control while you killed them off.

(No, this post is not intended to be serious. ME's stupid enemy AI just grates on me at times.)

[AlexMBrennan]

The equipment is somewhat more advanced than what we currently use today, but its function is essentially the same.

Is it though? With ME technology, every last soldier is now equipped with a weapon capable of delivering infinitely sustained fully automatic fire and that might as well have an impact similar to the development of assault rifles in WW2.

Biotic in the Alliance Navy run on a 4500 calorie/day diet, and are issued a canteen of potent energy drink when going into combat. Biotics would be a useful ace in the whole, or for situational circumstances. But biotic abilities are a tool for short bursts. Sustained biotics are not a viable strategy.

With all the military expenditures I seriously doubt that double rations would be a deal breaker.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 08 février 2014 - 03:01 .

[Allison_Lightning]

The problem with biotics is they're very watered down to keep the game playable which takes the bite out of them unless you're playing on a high difficulty. That and Shepard radiates a power that makes enemies do stupid things, biotic mooks included.

Also, you would find human biotics capable of what Jack and Adept Shepard are, very rare and willing to work in the Alliance, rarer still. What you saw on Grissom Academy were all the biotic students they could get out of Earth and other colonies. Even with Kaidan's unit, the number is infinitesimally small and Jack didn't think her students were ready (which if you forced them into the frontline, they weren't). But biotics in the Alliance were structured around working with other units, especially since the Alliance would be working around humanity's prejudices against human biotics.

[Frybread76]

I've not read the novels or comics but it seems to me Biotics of any race other than Asari would be extremely rare. Like 1 in 10,000 or something.

[cap and gown]

Allison_Lightning wrote...
 Jack didn't think her students were ready (which if you forced them into the frontline, they weren't). 

Hold the phone! Jack tells Shepard he/she was right, the students WERE ready. Moreover, the war asset value of the students is HIGHER (75 points) if you send them to the front lines than if you tell them to take a support role (50 points).

Modifié par cap and gown, 08 février 2014 - 05:47 .

[Allison_Lightning]

They all died in the front line choice- the biotic unit was a complete write off and for the meager improved war asset total, it's not worth it. In a real war situation, devoid of the whole TMS/EMS debacle, the continued use of those students across many battles in support would come to a higher value than thrusting them onto the frontline for an immediate but limited use payoff.

[Khavos]

iakus wrote...

Krogan, it seems can only gain useful biotic ability through risky surgeries, which have not been performed since the Krogan Rebellions (can't risk themselves that way anymore) so you don't see any young biotics among them.

Unless Wrex has been alive since the Krogan Rebellions, that seems inaccurate.

But the problem with biotics is, aside from the risks of being exposed to eezo to develop the abilities in the first place, is the energy it demands from the user. Biotic in the Alliance Navy run on a 4500 calorie/day diet, and are issued a canteen of potent energy drink when going into combat. Biotics would be a useful ace in the whole, or for situational circumstances. But biotic abilities are a tool for short bursts. Sustained biotics are not a viable strategy.

So among humans, having a biotic specialist or two in a squad or platoon standard might someday be possible, but whole units like Jack's students would be unlikely unless things got really dire. The upkeep would simply be too much.

I'd disagree with the notion that all-biotic units would not happen or prove their worth in the Alliance - if Kaidan survives Virmire, by the time of ME3, he's a staff officer in the 1st Special Operations Biotic Company.  

The war junkie turians regard asari commandos as the best individual soldiers in the galaxy - the only drawback being there aren't many of them.  There's a reason the Alliance and Cerberus are both aggressively pursuing biotic research and training.  

As to the OP's question, I think it's unanswerable, due in equal measure to the fact that military tactics in the MEU don't seem to exist, and the fact that biotics are presented in wildly varying ways depending on which source you're pulling from.   

[cap and gown]

Just as a side note: if you are Harbinger or Clone Shep then you don't have to worry about cool downs.

Modifié par cap and gown, 08 février 2014 - 02:19 .

[AlanC9]

Khavos wrote...

Unless Wrex has been alive since the Krogan Rebellions, that seems inaccurate.
   

He seems to have been around immediately after the genophage was deployed, at any rate. Just how long do krogan live?

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Unless Wrex has been alive since the Krogan Rebellions, that seems inaccurate.
   

He seems to have been around immediately after the genophage was deployed, at any rate. Just how long do krogan live?

They can break a thousand years, at least.  Their lifespans seem comparable to asari.

edit:  I wonder if anyone in teh ME galaxy knows how long a krogan can potentially live?  Few seem to die of old age.

Modifié par iakus, 08 février 2014 - 04:29 .

[Iakus]

themikefest wrote...

you remember that stupid comment in ME1? Have you ever seen an asari commando unit before? Few humans have. That's because they aren't worth a damn.

It should be more like Shepard and humanity saying to the asari, Have you ever seen a human commando unit before? Few asari have.

With a machine gunner(s) they would tear apart thier barriers very easily leaving them open for an easy kill. Biotics might be good in a few spots and for a short time, but overall they won't be able to handle small arms fire along with explosives for any extended period of time.

Another advantage commandos would have is experience, though.  Even the least experienced commandos can have decades of experience.  Veterans can have centuries.

[Han Shot First]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

The equipment is somewhat more advanced than what we currently use today, but its function is essentially the same.

Is it though? With ME technology, every last soldier is now equipped with a weapon capable of delivering infinitely sustained fully automatic fire and that might as well have an impact similar to the development of assault rifles in WW2.

The reason why I don't believe small unit tactics would have changed much is that machine guns still exist in the Mass Effect universe. We have at least one example of a light machine gun with the Revenant. The various turrets would also be classified as a type of crew-served machine gun. While there isn't much lore there, if machine guns still exist presumably it would be because they have higher rates of fire and greater range than assault rifles.(obviously gameplay may not necessarily reflect this, but often the divide between gameplay and lore is wide) Otherwise the machine gun would have been completely replaced by assault rifles, if the assault rifles could fulfill their role.

After the Second World infantry tactics actually did not go through a radical change. While the rates of fire of infantry squads greatly increased as semi-automatic rifles were replaced by fully automatic assault rifles, the same has also been true for machine guns. Both the range and rates of fire of machine guns have increased as technology was improved. Both during the Second World War and in the 70 years since the machine gun has been the dominant infantry weapon, and all small unit tactics revolve around them. In fact since World War Two the impact of the machine gun on small unit tactics has actually increased.

To give an example, early in the Second World War a U.S. Marine infantry squad consisted of 8 men. Of those 8 men only 1 was armed with a BAR. (a type of light machine gun) By 1944 Marine infantry squad had expanded into a 13 man team composed of a squad leader and three fire teams of four men each, with each fire team fielding a BAR. While there are some small differences in organization between different services or different nation's armed forces, the increase in the number of machine guns fielded during the Second World War and since is the same across the board. A British Army section is smaller than a US Marine squad (8 men) but it also fields one machine gun per fire team, more than their 1939 equivalent. Early in the Second World War a British Army section fielded one Bren gun (a LMG) per section, whereas today an army section fields two LMGs.

For that reason I don't believe small unit tactics in the MEU would have undergone a dramatic shift either, despite the technological improvements made to assault rifles. The technological improvements would also be going on with machine guns, making it likely that the machine gun is still the dominant infantry weapon and thus the focus of infantry tactics, or at least one of the main points of focus depending on how biotics factor in. If assault rifles could perform the roles typically assigned to machine gun a weapon like the Revenant shouldn't exist.

Of course I'm also probably over-thinking this. The series isn't written by people who served in the military or military historians, so a lot of stuff doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you try and compare to the real world. But speculation is sometimes fun. 
 

[themikefest]

iakus wrote...

themikefest wrote...

you remember that stupid comment in ME1? Have you ever seen an asari commando unit before? Few humans have. That's because they aren't worth a damn.

It should be more like Shepard and humanity saying to the asari, Have you ever seen a human commando unit before? Few asari have.

With a machine gunner(s) they would tear apart thier barriers very easily leaving them open for an easy kill. Biotics might be good in a few spots and for a short time, but overall they won't be able to handle small arms fire along with explosives for any extended period of time.

Another advantage commandos would have is experience, though.  Even the least experienced commandos can have decades of experience.  Veterans can have centuries.

Well that went really well at the Monestary. Shepard had to come in and finish the job for them.

[Han Shot First]

Khavos wrote...


I'd disagree with the notion that all-biotic units would not happen or prove their worth in the Alliance - if Kaidan survives Virmire, by the time of ME3, he's a staff officer in the 1st Special Operations Biotic Company.  

 

All biotic units certainly do exist in the lore but the question is whether those units are the exception or the rule. Neither Kaidan or Jack's unit can be described as typical. Kaiden was in command of some sort of special operations unit, and Jack's unit was somewhat experimental. The Turians segregate their biotics into cabals, but then that seems to be due as much to discrimination as it is to any pragmatic considerations.

There is also the question of whether these units are typically deployed en masse on the battlefield or whether individuals are detached from their parent unit and attached to line companies or other special operations units as needed. Did Kaiden's company function similar to the H&S or Weapons Companies I mentioned in my first post, for example? It is entirely possible that the Kaiden's company was part of a larger Special Operations command and that individual biotics or teams would be attached to other Special Operations units as the mission dictates. With Jack's company it seems to depend on how Shepard elects to use them. Have them shore up barriers and they are attached to other Marine units, have them go the biotic artillery route and they seem to be deployed en masse. In any case, the biotic artillery route was experimental and not the norm.

From my point of view it makes a lot more sense to spread your biotics out amongst the infantry rather to concentrate them into separate units that deploy en masse. By spreading them out you both increase the effectiveness of your standard infantry and limit the inherent vulnerabilities of your biotic personnel. Putting all your eggs in one basket is rarely tactically sound.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 08 février 2014 - 08:25 .

[DeinonSlayer]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Unless Wrex has been alive since the Krogan Rebellions, that seems inaccurate.
   

He seems to have been around immediately after the genophage was deployed, at any rate. Just how long do krogan live?

They can break a thousand years, at least.  Their lifespans seem comparable to asari.

edit:  I wonder if anyone in teh ME galaxy knows how long a krogan can potentially live?  Few seem to die of old age.

Well, if you stand around long enough, Patriarch starts talking about his life before the Genophage, reminiscing about how younglings would kill each other in the nest. How long ago was it first distributed?

Also, Aethyta's father was a Rachni War veteran.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

In gameplay, they're pretty common. In lore/universe, they're supposed to be pretty rare.

[Han Shot First]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Unless Wrex has been alive since the Krogan Rebellions, that seems inaccurate.
   

He seems to have been around immediately after the genophage was deployed, at any rate. Just how long do krogan live?

They can break a thousand years, at least.  Their lifespans seem comparable to asari.

edit:  I wonder if anyone in teh ME galaxy knows how long a krogan can potentially live?  Few seem to die of old age.

IIRC it was even stated that if a Krogan's life isn't cut short by violence they actually live longer than the Asari. The problem is that hardly any Krogan die natural deaths. They're all killed by other Krogan, in combat with other races, or by predators on Tuchanka.

[cap and gown]

Han Shot First wrote...

From my point of view it makes a lot more sense to spread your biotics out amongst the infantry rather to concentrate them into separate units that deploy en masse. By spreading them out you both increase the effectiveness of your standard infantry and limit the inherent vulnerabilities of your biotic personnel. Putting all your eggs in one basket is rarely tactically sound.

I'm not so sure about this. When tanks were first used they were seen as support units and spread out among the various units. Then the Germans came along and showed that a specialized, tank heavy formation was superior to spreading out the tanks among the various infantry divisions. The Panzer Divisions became the schwerpunkt for any offensive. Since WWII, however, tanks have become more ubiquitous, and the distinction between an infantry division and a tank division has become less sharp.

So if biotics are rare, then it might make sense to group them together as the schwerpunkt for your offensive. If they are not so rare, then spreading them out might make more sense.

Modifié par cap and gown, 08 février 2014 - 10:06 .

[Han Shot First]

cap and gown wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

From my point of view it makes a lot more sense to spread your biotics out amongst the infantry rather to concentrate them into separate units that deploy en masse. By spreading them out you both increase the effectiveness of your standard infantry and limit the inherent vulnerabilities of your biotic personnel. Putting all your eggs in one basket is rarely tactically sound.

I'm not so sure about this. When tanks were first used they were seen as support units and spread out among the various units. Then the Germans came along and showed that a specialized, tank heavy formation was superior to spreading out the tanks among the various infantry divisions. The Panzer Divisions became the schwerpunkt for any offensive. Since WWII, however, tanks have become more ubiquitous, and the distinction between an infantry division and a tank division has become less sharp.

So if biotics are rare, then it might make sense to group them together as the schwerpunkt for your offensive. If they are not so rare, then spreading them out might make more sense.

Actually tanks during the Second World War usually didn't operate alone. Tanks by themselves are vulnerable to anti-tank guns and infantry armed with anti-armor weapons. For that reason its always best to have armor units closely supported by infantry. In the military it is rare that anything other than a combined arms approach works.

During those large scale armor breakthroughs the tanks would be followed by mechanized infantry, and when contact was made with the enemy (or expected) the infantry would dismount from their half-tracks or trucks and help protect the tanks from being ambushed by enemy infantry with bazookas (or their equivalent) or hidden anti-tank guns.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 08 février 2014 - 10:29 .

[Wulfram]

I think they'd be pretty rare, and... I was going to say I couldn't see the logic in having purely biotic units larger than a squad, but I guess you could have larger units in order to keep a rapid rotation on the front line and thus counteract what is perhaps the main biotic weakness (in the lore, if not the gameplay) of combat endurance.

I guess you wouldn't want to spread them out over the whole army, but to keep them concentrated in commando units and special forces.

Biotics would I guess be particularly rare in Turian forces compared to others, simply because their forces make up such a large proportion of the population, whereas other races would somewhat counter-act the rarity of biotics by recruiting a high proportion of them into the military.

Of course, we've got the Asari. They're going to be totally different. And all the other serious armed forces are going to have to have an idea how to fight them, even if they are supposed to be allies.

(disclaimer: I really don't know a much about military tactics more recent than Sharpe)