645 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Legitimate uses? such as what? To me the only thing that even vaguely comes close to legitimate usage of that "school" is using it against darkspawn in a blight. Short of that, no need, no point, too dangerous, should be so highly taboo and illegal even a hint of it leaking into a circle should be investigated. Meredith was actually right in this regard; Blood Magic corrupted that Circle, It can corrupt others if it is ever allowed to take root, so its simpler to just make sure it never does.

 

 

On Jowan? He wasn't mad i grant you;No he just lied, shifted until he ultimately sold out his morals entirely and became a hired thug.

 

He really isn't the paragon some pro mages make him out to be, And he ultimately deserved  the knife the PC rammed into his guts.

 

No, he isn't the paragon, but it doesn't really change the fact that having him save Connor then sparing him serves up a reward in the story. Granted, killing him or allowing him to be executed by Eamon is perfectly justified, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily wrong to give him a second chance either.

[Master Warder Z_]

See also: otherwise the weakest character in the game.

 

But my point is that despite his otherwise weak moral character, he didn't give into the temptations that Lotion's arguing make blood magic too dangerous.  Picture what it would look like if a Blood Mage really did give up his morals entirely. It's far scarier than Jowan.

 

As for legitimate use of Blood Magic, the Qunari are dangerous too. They're basically the only force in Thedas besides the spawn that can make me sympathize with the Tevinters. They're not as dangerous as the darkspawn, but their takeover would still be very bad news. And apparently Blood Magic can boost healing spells, as well. According to WoT, a blood mage can save someone who is otherwise past magical intervention. So there's that.

 

There have been plenty of "Jowan"'s in DA.

 

He's just the larva of the corruption of Blood Magic, Next thing you know he would be summoning up some demons because "He dabbled" and thought it was prudent to have access to the assistance because he was otherwise weak.

 

Jowan's lack of morality, apathy to the suffering his caused and otherwise general smug attitude would have turned him into a mini uldred if not worse.

 

The Qunari have been beaten back by methods far less corrupting in the past, even for all its supposed might blood magic didn't prevent the Qunari from all but conquering the Imperium during the Qunari Wars. So i wouldn't even advise it used against them unless if it was otherwise called for, but those mages using it would likely need to be summarily executed at the end of hostilities.

 

With regret obviously; Killing War Hero's isn't something to relish.

 

Its a school that needs to die out.

 

Because if the Demons become the only source of that tainted, warping knowledge then there is legitimate reason to kill all those practicing it, they consort with demons.

[Dean_the_Young]

Technicly, it doesn't make them wrong either.

 

And the danger of blood magic is vast. It is the most tempting of all schools of magic, the easiest to abuse. And one whos'e effectivness is tied to suffering.

 

There's no way to make a blood mage "safe", hence why death or tranqulity are the only options.

 

 

Hey now: accepting the costs is also an option. An unacceptable one to many, perhaps, but an option- and one that, circumstances depending, might be justified. Recognize the costs, and also the option.

 

Of course, I suspect that the viewpoint of most non-mages on blood magic justification resides along the lines of 'only in an apocalypse, maybe,' rather than 'anytime someone I feel is reasonable is okay with it.'

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There have been plenty of "Jowan"'s in DA.

 

He's just the larva of the corruption of Blood Magic, Next thing you know he would be summoning up some demons because "He dabbled" and thought it was prudent to have access to the assistance because he was otherwise weak.

 

Jowan's lack of morality, apathy to the suffering his caused and otherwise general smug attitude would have turned him into a mini uldred if not worse.

 

The Qunari have been beaten back by methods far less corrupting in the past, even for all its supposed might blood magic didn't prevent the Qunari from all but conquering the Imperium during the Qunari Wars. So i wouldn't even advise it used against them unless if it was otherwise called for, but those mages using it would likely need to be summarily executed at the end of hostilities.

 

With regret obviously; Killing War Hero's isn't something to relish.

 

Its a school that needs to die out.

 

Because if the Demons become the only source of that tainted, warping knowledge then there is legitimate reason to kill all those practicing it, they consort with demons.

 

In re Jowan: You're arguing that Jowan would inevitably have gone as bad as the rest of the Blood Mages? What I think you're missing is that Jowan has a really good incentive to prove you right if you do anything except forcing him to flee... and yet he doesn't.

 

And I think you're missing the way in which I'm arguing he's weak. I'm not arguing he's a weak mage: there's an argument to be made, but on the other hand he is able to solo that desire demon. Frankly, it makes more sense that the Chantry either sentenced him to Tranquility because he was a known blood mage, or because they thought him weak morally. Which is, in fact, the reason I'm citing him as an example. We know he's of weak enough character to do horrible things. But even he stops short of using the worst Blood Magic has, even if you put him in a position where he's going to die. I think that's stronger evidence than you want to paint it as that Blood Mages won't inevitably go bad.

 

As for his lack of empathy for those he caused to suffer and general smug attitude, I think you must not have played the same game I did.

 

In re The Qunari: It worked last time. There is no guarantee the next war won't require blood magic. There's any number of things that could go differently. It is worth noting, for instance, that unless Sten closed his eyes completely he noticed that mages aren't as dangerous as the Qun teaches and don't require quite as much scrutiny. I'm not talking about a Mage Warden, who he considers to be an invalid example of everything.* I'm talking about the unbound mages who quite clearly did not transmit demons by voice. And the Qunari who knows that mages can be given a little more free reign is now maybe the second or third most powerful Qunari politically. **

 

In re The Last Two Lines: Let's see if I read that correctly. Your argument is that blood mages should be killed to ensure that demons are the only source of blood magic, because that will justify killing blood mages?

 

In re The New Forum: Is it still possible to break up posts your quoting to respond to individual points, or am I going to have to do this every single time?

 

* And frankly, Sten's not wrong.

 

** Oh, crap.

[LobselVith8]

When have the Templars or Chantry ever claimed or preached a doctrine of divine right over the mages?

 

Since you used actual quotations, I'm sure you have an actual direct source you're quoting from... right?

 

Cullen. Act III. The Knight-Captain provides it as the reason why Grand Cleric Elthina can't oppose the templars by explaining that the templars have "dominion over mages by divine right". The developers have also said that Cullen is supposed to be an example of a moderate templar.

[Master Warder Z_]

In re Jowan: You're arguing that Jowan would inevitably have gone as bad as the rest of the Blood Mages? What I think you're missing is that Jowan has a really good incentive to prove you right if you do anything except forcing him to flee... and yet he doesn't.

 

And I think you're missing the way in which I'm arguing he's weak. I'm not arguing he's a weak mage: there's an argument to be made, but on the other hand he is able to solo that desire demon. Frankly, it makes more sense that the Chantry either sentenced him to Tranquility because he was a known blood mage, or because they thought him weak morally. Which is, in fact, the reason I'm citing him as an example. We know he's of weak enough character to do horrible things. But even he stops short of using the worst Blood Magic has, even if you put him in a position where he's going to die. I think that's stronger evidence than you want to paint it as that Blood Mages won't inevitably go bad.

 

As for his lack of empathy for those he caused to suffer and general smug attitude, I think you must not have played the same game I did.

 

In re The Qunari: It worked last time. There is no guarantee the next war won't require blood magic. There's any number of things that could go differently.

 

In re The Last Two Lines: Let's see if I read that correctly. Your argument is that blood mages should be killed to ensure that demons are the only source of blood magic, because that will justify killing blood mages?

 

In re The New Forum: Is it still possible to break up posts your quoting to respond to individual points, or am I going to have to do this every single time?

 

He was playing for his life at that time, he knew that the Arl if revived would likely seek justice, and well if you have Moderate Nobility after you when you are an broke alone apostate? Your life is measured in days if not weeks.

 

I played the same game obvious considering he didn't hesitate to abandon his lover whom he claimed he loved and would do anything for; His emotional attachment was obviously false, clearly if anything the ****er is sociopathic; using emotional constructs as a medium to express his intent while he is secretly measuring every one up for blood sacrifice. And sure he can combat a Desire demon; Using the very power he gained from another demonic factor, Ironic isn't it? 

 

The moment he dabbled he stopped being a human to me; That magic isn't something you dabble in, Everything in the lore admits as muc; It weakens your resistance to demonic suggestion, sunders the veil need i go on? Jowan became nothing more then a demon puppet

 

Unless if the Qunari have magically outbred Thedas in the last two centuries (they haven't) Then they are still facing the same 50 to one odds that saw them defeated before, i see no reason to destroy the world to remove a threat that can be combated normally, like that sinkhole tveinter use blood magic and pay the price for that stupidity.

 

Exactly! Killing all known practitioners, Destroying their works and removing the middle ground takes away any impartiality in the argument.

 

You have to look a demon square in the eye again and make a deal, and that's something i think should cost the person their life.

[Master Warder Z_]

Cullen. Act III. The Knight-Captain provides it as the reason why Grand Cleric Elthina can't oppose the templars by explaining that the templars have "dominion over mages by divine right". The developers have also said that Cullen is supposed to be an example of a moderate templar.

 

And Cullen is mistaken in that regard how exactly?

 

._. By Chantry doctrine everything he said was the truth.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

He was playing for his life at that time, he knew that the Arl if revived would likely seek justice, and well if you have Moderate Nobility after you when you are an broke alone apostate? Your life is measured in days if not weeks.

 

I played the same game obvious considering he didn't hesitate to abandon his lover whom he claimed he loved and would do anything for; His emotional attachment was obviously false, clearly if anything the ****er is sociopathic; using emotional constructs as a medium to express his intent while he is secretly measuring every one up for blood sacrifice. And sure he can combat a Desire demon; Using the very power he gained from another demonic factor, Ironic isn't it? 

 

The moment he dabbled he stopped being a human to me; That magic isn't something you dabble in, Everything in the lore admits as muc; It weakens your resistance to demonic suggestion, sunders the veil need i go on? Jowan became nothing more then a demon puppet

 

Unless if the Qunari have magically outbred Thedas in the last two centuries (they haven't) Then they are still facing the same 50 to one odds that saw them defeated before, i see no reason to destroy the world to remove a threat that can be combated normally, like that sinkhole tveinter use blood magic and pay the price for that stupidity.

 

Exactly! Killing all known practitioners, Destroying their works and removing the middle ground takes away any impartiality in the argument.

 

You have to look a demon square in the eye again and make a deal, and that's something i think should cost the person their life.

 

In re Eamon: And then once Eamon sentences him to death, he still doesn't use the worst Blood Magic has. As I specifically pointed out to you.

 

In re Jowan The Sociopath: I'm not certain you actually believe what you just typed.

 

In re Blood Magic destroying the world: Blood Magic dominated the world once. It set up a potential apocalypse or two* but the fact remains that if the danger you think the evidence supports were real, the setting wouldn't have lasted long enough to reach the time period Origins is set in.

 

In re the Last Two Lines: The problem is that we're arguing over blood magic in the context of that not having happened yet. Which means that the fact that that would justify you is irrelevant to whether you're justified in setting yourself up for that argument now.

 

In re The Format I'm typing this in: Seriously, is it possible to separate quotes or not? This is really unweildy, and I think it's quite possibly why you missed the meat of some of my previous arguements.

 

*Okay, more like seven.

[Xilizhra]

I played the same game obvious considering he didn't hesitate to abandon his lover whom he claimed he loved and would do anything for; His emotional attachment was obviously false, clearly if anything the ****er is sociopathic; using emotional constructs as a medium to express his intent while he is secretly measuring every one up for blood sacrifice. And sure he can combat a Desire demon; Using the very power he gained from another demonic factor, Ironic isn't it?

Um, he didn't abandon her; she told him to GTFO.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

All I know is whenever I think of Jowan's escape this is the first thing that pops into my mind.

[Master Warder Z_]

In re Eamon: And then once Eamon sentences him to death, he still doesn't use the worst Blood Magic has. As I specifically pointed out to you.

 

In re Jowan The Sociopath: I'm not certain you actually believe what you just typed.

 

In re Blood Magic destroying the world: Blood Magic dominated the world once. It set up a potential apocalypse or two* but the fact remains that if the danger you think the evidence supports were real, the setting wouldn't have lasted long enough to reach the time period Origins is set in.

 

In re the Last Two Lines: The problem is that we're arguing over blood magic in the context of that not having happened yet. Which means that the fact that that would justify you is irrelevant to whether you're justified in setting yourself up for that argument now.

 

In re The Format I'm typing this in: Seriously, is it possible to separate quotes or not? This is really unweildy, and I think it's quite possibly why you missed the meat of some of my previous arguements.

 

*Okay, more like seven.

 

And what would that result in anyway? He got beat, fighting past that point would pointless; Furthermore considering the Execution isn't shown in game how can you say with out a doubt he didn't attempt to flee from his crimes AGAIN?

 

Actually its sort of like the Lyrium poisoning of mages; if you actually look back it makes a sort of sense.

 

Blood Magic sunders the Veil, it allows Demonc Possession easier; Until the Veil was torn in its entirety Blood Magic was the most common reason for that aspect of the veil being weakened, Abominations are a clear and present danger to Thedas, Anything that further strengthens the possession risk is something that threatens the entire continent.  And about the only reason it hasn't? Most Mages have had better sense to bother with it for one, The Templars on both sides of the Chantry kill all those who fall prey to the end result (becoming abominations) Before a horde of those ungodly things were created.

 

And secondly it isn't widely practiced even where it is known; Kirkwall being a notable exception to the rule. If it became accepted, legalized as some would want it ultimately is just going to explode in their faces with a torrent of abominations given that the USAGE of it SUNDERS the veil, and given demonic possession becomes easier in blood mages? Do i really need to tell you the end result of mass usage of it? Abominations.

 

And the meat of your argument? Pfft more like vegetable platter

[LobselVith8]

The Four Origin Demons are a myth of giving Blood Magic to the Men of ancient Tveinter, But's convoluted in Myth and history much like Dumat although.there is certain lore within DAO that gives some credence to this theory such as the ancient Warden in Soldier's Peak.

 

Averenus stated quite pointedly that using blood magic against creatures of the fade was a pointless gesture as it originated with them; And while i consider the magic to be more complicated then that it does point towards Demons being the orginination of that power if you can take the ancient blood mage at his word, and considering quite a few folks take cory at his word, why can't i believe a blood mage that actually retained at least a semblance of his humanity?

 

Gift? Pfft right   And it's one of the things i laughed at one screen when Merril blamed the loss of her entire species magic on Humanity.

 

In truth? If that was actually true ._. it should be something they should thank Humanity for.

 

The simple fact is that there are different origin stories for blood magic; there's no consensus regarding it's inception. Pointing to Avernus and saying that his opinion is fact isn't really a persuasive argument, either, because he's a 200 year old Grey Warden mage who isn't in a position to know the inception of blood magic, which may have happened over a millennia ago.

 

As for Merrill, she's an example of a beneficial blood mage who doesn't misuse her magical abilities, as well as a non-Andrastian who has different cultural and religious views than the ones held by the people who follow the Andrastian faith. I think the cultural and religious view that magic is a gift of the Creators would be more engaging for elven mages (who are now free from the oppressive regime of the Chantry controlled Circles) than the Andrastian doctrine of magic being a curse, and part of their origin sin fable.

[Master Warder Z_]

The simple fact is that there are different origin stories for blood magic; there's no consensus regarding it's inception. Pointing to Avernus and saying that his opinion is fact isn't really a persuasive argument, either, because he's a 200 year old Grey Warden mage who isn't in a position to know the inception of blood magic, which may have happened over a millennia ago.

 

As for Merrill, she's an example of a beneficial blood mage who doesn't misuse her magical abilities, as well as a non-Andrastian who has different cultural and religious views than the ones held by the people who follow the Andrastian faith. I think the cultural and religious view that magic is a gift of the Creators would be more engaging for elven mages (who are now free from the oppressive regime of the Chantry controlled Circles) than the Andrastian doctrine of magic being a curse, and part of their origin sin fable.

 

No doubt what Avernus said has yet to be confirmed as fact and yet Blood Mages themselves upon occasion support the notion that it was the Demons "Gax Kang, Xenobeck, The Formless one, the other i cannot recall at the moment" who gave Humanity blood magic upon the set of an age long since past. I just point out how some of that theory seems to point towards what blood mages have stated themselves and in their writing is all, and those demons happen to be very real so...its just aligning like that theory is the correct one is all.

 

Beneficial?

 

Yeah we aren't doing the Merril dance buddy.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah we aren't doing the Merril dance buddy.

Ah, yes; that didn't end so well for you last time, as I recall.

[LobselVith8]

No doubt what Avernus said has yet to be confirmed as fact and yet Blood Mages themselves upon occasion support the notion that it was the Demons "Gax Kang, Xenobeck, The Formless one, the other i cannot recall at the moment" who gave Humanity blood magic upon the set of an age long since past. I just point out how some of that theory seems to point towards what blood mages have stated themselves and in their writing is all, and those demons happen to be very real so...its just aligning like that theory is the correct one is all.

 

Beneficial?

 

Yeah we aren't doing the Merril dance buddy.

 

We don't know what the truth is. Simply because some mages follow a particular mythology about the genesis of blood magic doesn't make it true.

 

Yes - beneficial, especially to the Champion's exploits throughout the narrative (if the two of them were friends and companions), and for the hundreds of men, women, and children who can be protected with their collective aid against Meredith's Right of Annulment. Just an example that not all blood mages are like the psychotic lunatics in Dragon Age II who seemed like escaped convicts from Arkham Asylum.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And what would that result in anyway? He got beat, fighting past that point would pointless; Furthermore considering the Execution isn't shown in game how can you say with out a doubt he didn't attempt to flee from his crimes AGAIN?

 

Actually its sort of like the Lyrium poisoning of mages; if you actually look back it makes a sort of sense.

 

Blood Magic sunders the Veil, it allows Demonc Possession easier; Until the Veil was torn in its entirety Blood Magic was the most common reason for that aspect of the veil being weakened, Abominations are a clear and present danger to Thedas, Anything that further strengthens the possession risk is something that threatens the entire continent.  And about the only reason it hasn't? Most Mages have had better sense to bother with it for one, The Templars on both sides of the Chantry kill all those who fall prey to the end result (becoming abominations) Before a horde of those ungodly things were created.

 

And secondly it isn't widely practiced even where it is known; Kirkwall being a notable exception to the rule. If it became accepted, legalized as some would want it ultimately is just going to explode in their faces with a torrent of abominations given that the USAGE of it SUNDERS the veil, and given demonic possession becomes easier in blood mages? Do i really need to tell you the end result of mass usage of it? Abominations.

 

And the meat of your argument? Pfft more like vegetable platter

 

In re Jowan and The Godzilla Threshold: I'd be surprised if he doesn't, except that he apparently doesn't resist at all if the Warden does it. And considering that he gets a better chance of survival by blowing something up and then retreating, (especially if this is the Warden doing the executing) I'm not sure why knowing he's screwed is a good reason to give up.

 

In re Blood Magic turning mages into psychopaths: This argument does make sense except in the context of Jowan (who decides to make up for past mistakes even when given alternatives) and Merril (who is ditzy and doesn't think her actions through, but isn't actually evil.) And it's not like the lore is reliable: don't forget that most of it is the work of in-setting authors, rather than a direct word from the developers. (Said direct word, btw, is that blood magic is not innately corrupting.)

 

As for Blood Magic tearing the Veil, we have it from Gaider that magic weakens the Veil regardless. And the fact that Blood Magic involves suffering doesn't help the Veil either. The problem is that from all we've seen the problem isn't as bad as you're making it sound, and that it's possible for there to be a problem bad enough to make this limited risk acceptable. (The darkspawn are the main, but not the only, example.)

 

In re Jowan the sociopath: He seems in context to absolutely not be faking his remorse, or his pain at his lover abandoning him.

 

In re The Meat Of My Argument: I don't think that answered any of my arguments properly, the least of which was "Is there some alternative to using this stupid format?"

[TheKomandorShepard]

We don't know what the truth is. Simply because some mages follow a particular mythology about the genesis of blood magic doesn't make it true.

 

Yes - beneficial, especially to the Champion's exploits throughout the narrative (if the two of them were friends and companions), and for the hundreds of men, women, and children who can be protected with their collective aid against Meredith's Right of Annulment. Just an example that not all blood mages are like the psychotic lunatics in Dragon Age II who seemed like escaped convicts from Arkham Asylum.

 

No i had other impression circle was corrupted meredith was right and we can see that before Roa and during...

And dalish mages aren't very good example on templar oppression zathrian , merril , velanna... as far we saw 2 dalish clans and 2 keepers ended being dangerous zathrian with curse and marethari as abomnation avoiding that her student have aspirations for becoming another...

 

Jowan was idiot not sociopath he actually was one of "good" blood mages like merril just dumb what doesn't matter that jowan was another walking disaster as most mages instead being insane pri*** he is dumb walking bomb like merril so point stays...

[Master Warder Z_]

Yet you have nothing supporting the notion that Jowan didn't resist, didn't try to flee again, seeing his track record for fleeing before being punished it would seem to make more sense then his sudden shift of pace and tactic.

 

o-o Magic it self does weaken the veil but blood magic is by far the most destructive and i don't think i am overstating anything given that in area's where the veil is weakened you have increased chances of possession. Therefore allowing a school that doubly weakens the veil, increases the chance of possession and inately makes the mage in question weaker to demonic possession, why on earth would i be in favor it?

 

And i am not overstating anything, i am stating reality if it ever got to the point of remote public acceptance.

 

She abandoned because he was a moron for studying the forbidden for the sake of power lust; His pain, rage and misguided envy all landed him in the demon's lap; But again this is merely a perspective i gleaned myself. Not stating that it's the granted perspective to view the character in, but given we all portray and view these people different;y i don't see why i view is innately false.

 

And the vegetable platter was just a crack on stance is all.

[Master Warder Z_]

We don't know what the truth is. Simply because some mages follow a particular mythology about the genesis of blood magic doesn't make it true.

 

Yes - beneficial, especially to the Champion's exploits throughout the narrative (if the two of them were friends and companions), and for the hundreds of men, women, and children who can be protected with their collective aid against Meredith's Right of Annulment. Just an example that not all blood mages are like the psychotic lunatics in Dragon Age II who seemed like escaped convicts from Arkham Asylum.

 

No, but it doesn't magically negate it from being speculation and nothing else but i will state this; this theory has more backing then any other. 

 

Aren't DOING the merril dance buddy.

 

That little subject got covered plenty, you already saw to it.

[LobselVith8]

No i had other impression circle was corrupted meredith was right and we can see that before Roa and during...

And dalish mages aren't very good example on templar oppression zathrian , merril , velanna... as far we saw 2 dalish clans and 2 keepers ended being dangerous zathrian with curse and marethari as abomnation avoiding that her student have aspirations for becoming another...

 

Jowan was idiot not sociopath he actually was one of "good" blood mages like merril just dumb what doesn't matter that jowan was another walking disaster as most mages instead being insane pri*** he is dumb walking bomb like merril so point stays...

 

We never met the hundreds of men, women, and children who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall, so I don't see how the player is in a position to condemn the Circle as corrupt. The protagonist mainly encounters criminals outside the Circle, but nowhere near the majority of the Circle mages.

 

As for the Dalish, we encounter two clans: Zathrian's clan, and the Sabrae clan. Zathrian cursed the humans who killed his son and raped his daughter centuries ago, while Marethari falls prey to Audacity's manipulations. Lanaya can replace Zathrian as Keeper, and become a great leader for the Elvhen, settlng disputes and becoming a respected figure at court, while there was another First chosen to replace Merrill, who would logically lead the Sabrae clan away from Sundermount in the wake of Marethari's demise.

 

As for Jowan, he can become Master Levyn and protect refugees from the darkspawn during the Fifth Blight. It's not as though being a blood mage made Jowan into an evil person.

[TheKomandorShepard]

We never met the hundreds of men, women, and children who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall, so I don't see how the player is in a position to condemn the Circle as corrupt. The protagonist mainly encounters criminals outside the Circle, but nowhere near the majority of the Circle mages.

 

As for the Dalish, we encounter two clans: Zathrian's clan, and the Sabrae clan. Zathrian cursed the humans who killed his son and raped his daughter centuries ago, while Marethari falls prey to Audacity's manipulations. Lanaya can replace Zathrian as Keeper, and become a great leader for the Elvhen, settlng disputes and becoming a respected figure at court, while there was another First chosen to replace Merrill, who would logically lead the Sabrae clan away from Sundermount in the wake of Marethari's demise.

 

As for Jowan, he can become Master Levyn and protect refugees from the darkspawn during the Fifth Blight. It's not as though being a blood mage made Jowan into an evil person.

 

Not rly we can saw circle mages as blood mages as those circle mages are those cirminal blood mages who escaped circle...

We saw that before when such numbers of peoples in such small group is corrupted this is great shoot that group is corrupted even if not every member is corrupted more and more will become corrupted so they need to be deal with especially such danger as mages...

 

those are excuses and world won't care if they will be burn by abomnation who was children mage who didn't want do homework and... same for zathrian and marethari when you are non-mage your mistakes rarely a big impact when you are mage every mistake is expensive...

 

im sure that victims that didn't had nothing to do with killing zathrian family pitty poor zathrian who is hater are grateful for screwing their life as well societies that would end torn by werewolves or burn by abomnation merril because she wanted just bring power to her peoples or marethari because she wanted protect an idiot... and yeah we found 1 no causing damage dalish mage great that success shame that others are not so good and case that lanaya is naive good luck with that in dark word i can see her causing damage in future like zathrian...

 

I never said that jowan was "bad" person he is just another mage idiot and that makes him as dangerous as corrupted or even more...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yet you have nothing supporting the notion that Jowan didn't resist, didn't try to flee again, seeing his track record for fleeing before being punished it would seem to make more sense then his sudden shift of pace and tactic.

 

o-o Magic it self does weaken the veil but blood magic is by far the most destructive and i don't think i am overstating anything given that in area's where the veil is weakened you have increased chances of possession. Therefore allowing a school that doubly weakens the veil, increases the chance of possession and inately makes the mage in question weaker to demonic possession, why on earth would i be in favor it?

 

And i am not overstating anything, i am stating reality if it ever got to the point of remote public acceptance.

 

She abandoned because he was a moron for studying the forbidden for the sake of power lust; His pain, rage and misguided envy all landed him in the demon's lap; But again this is merely a perspective i gleaned myself. Not stating that it's the granted perspective to view the character in, but given we all portray and view these people different;y i don't see why i view is innately false.

 

And the vegetable platter was just a crack on stance is all.

 

In re Jowan resisting: It was my understanding that we see him not resisting if the Warden chooses to kill him personally. That seems to me to be better evidence than you take it for.

 

In re Why Jowan got abandoned: There's nothing we see that strictly proves it false, but then the simpler explanation doesn't contradict any proven facts. Which means it's more likely than the more complicated one.

 

In re Remote Public Acceptance of Blood Magic: WoT (which I'm uncertain of the reliability of, since I'm not certain whether Gaider's directly writing it or simply channeling the limitedly knowledgeable Genitivi or Petrine again) states that even the morally good mages in Tevinter know at least the most basic blood magic. Furthermore, I don't think there was any stigma on Blood Magic at all before the first Exalted March. That led to at least one near apocalypse, but the fact remains that unless you were vastly underestimating the danger the world would already be dead.

 

In re The Vegetable Platter: No, but seriously. Do quotes work the same way on this new forum, or do I have to keep formatting my posts this way? Actually, never mind.

 

 

 

Test Test

One two

 

Edit: Good. I was getting tired of doing that.

[LobselVith8]

Not rly we can saw circle mages as blood mages as those circle mages are those cirminal blood mages who escaped circle...

We saw that before when such numbers of peoples in such small group is corrupted this is great shoot that group is corrupted even if not every member is corrupted more and more will become corrupted so they need to be deal with especially such danger as mages...

 

those are excuses and world won't care if they will be burn by abomnation who was children mage who didn't want do homework and... same for zathrian and marethari when you are non-mage your mistakes rarely a big impact when you are mage every mistake is expensive...

 

im sure that victims that didn't had nothing to do with killing zathrian family pitty poor zathrian who is hater are grateful for screwing their life as well societies that would end torn by werewolves or burn by abomnation merril because she wanted just bring power to her peoples or marethari because she wanted protect an idiot...

 

I never said that jowan was "bad" person he is just another mage idiot and that makes him as dangerous as corrupted or even more...

 

I don't think mage criminals condemn the entirety of the Circle of Kirkwall. There are hundreds of people who live in the Gallows, and that was before the influx of Starkhaven mages who were relocated to the Circle of Kirkwall after a fire burned down the Starkhaven Circle. And I don't trust Meredith's judgement, since there are morally repugnant templars among her top-tier templars, including rapists like Kerras and Alrik.

 

And I see no reason to condemn the Dalish as a whole for the actions of Zathrian or Marethari, two Keepers who are replaced after their deaths (the former by a great and progressive Keeper, the latter by one we admittedly know very little about).

 

Regarding Jowan, I don't see him as an idiot when he's saving lives and keeping people safe from the hordes of darkspawn who are ravaging Ferelden. He's not the only example of a blood mage who helps people, either.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't think mage criminals condemn the entirety of the Circle of Kirkwall. There are hundreds of people who live in the Gallows, and that was before the influx of Starkhaven mages who were relocated to the Circle of Kirkwall after a fire burned down the Starkhaven Circle. And I don't trust Meredith's judgement, since there are morally repugnant templars among her top-tier templars, including rapists like Kerras and Alrik.

 

And I see no reason to condemn the Dalish as a whole for the actions of Zathrian or Marethari, two Keepers who are replaced after their deaths (the former by a great and progressive Keeper, the latter by one we admittedly know very little about).

 

Regarding Jowan, I don't see him as an idiot when he's saving lives and keeping people safe from the hordes of darkspawn who are ravaging Ferelden. He's not the only example of a blood mage who helps people, either.

 

It wasn't 2 or 10 cirminals it was full society of criminals and no starkhaven mages were only small part of criminal (is that right word to use here?) mages from kirkwall circle... and plase spare me how templars were corrupted we have only 2 cases that you mentioned and few peoples that were with arlik thats all... rather desperate attempt to throw guilt on templars.

 

Oh i don't condemn dalish i codemn stupid idea with keepers as far we saw they are continually causing damage oh sorry we saw 3 clans if we include 1 in redemption do i have mention that keeper of that clan was idiot as well? Simple if we see 2/3 clans and every keeper ends causing damage because they are mages it is very bad call...

 

Yep he is an idiot he proved that more than once and ultimately he admit it his stupidity screwd his and not only his life.

[LobselVith8]

It wasn't 2 or 10 cirminals it was full society of criminals and no starkhaven mages were only small part of criminal (is that right word to use here?) mages from kirkwall circle... and plase spare me how templars were corrupted we have only 2 cases that you mentioned and few peoples that were with arlik thats all... rather desperate attempt to throw guilt on templars.

 

Oh i don't condemn dalish i codemn stupid idea with keepers as far we saw they are continually causing damage oh sorry we saw 3 clans if we include 1 in redemption do i have mention that keeper of that clan was idiot as well? Simple if we see 2/3 clans and every keeper ends causing damage because they are mages it is very bad call...

 

Yep he is an idiot he proved that more than once and ultimately he admit it his stupidity screwd his and not only his life.

 

We encounter and fight criminals as the Champion of Kirkwall - from mage outlaws to dwarven carta. It doesn't condemn the entire Circle any more than it condemns the dwarven populace occupying Kirkwall.

 

As for the Dalish, you continually ignore that Lanaya replaces Zathrian and is an exceptional leader, while Marethari's failings perish with her since she has a new First to guide the Sabrae clan.

 

In regards to Jowan, I think the fact that he can dedicate himself to keeping innocent people safe from the darkspawn (during the Fifth Blight) shows that Jowan is much more than you're giving him credit for.