645 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

We encounter and fight criminals as the Champion of Kirkwall - from mage outlaws to dwarven carta. It doesn't condemn the entire Circle any more than it condemns the dwarven populace occupying Kirkwall.

 

As for the Dalish, you continually ignore that Lanaya replaces Zathrian and is an exceptional leader, while Marethari's failings perish with her since she has a new First to guide the Sabrae clan.

 

In regards to Jowan, I think the fact that he can dedicate himself to keeping innocent people safe from the darkspawn (during the Fifth Blight) shows that Jowan is much more than you're giving him credit for.

 

Ehh of course it does and please don't compare non-mages to mages and yes carta is still corrupted because of that as well circle was add to that that mages are walking bombs...

 

As i said i don't ignore anything because lanaya 1 individual hardly matters and we didn't even saw her in action as i said that she is naive and live in dark world nasty combination i can see another zathrian coming... and no that marethari clan have new keeper doesn't change fact she would (if not hawke) cause massive damage to the world... it is like saying that wynne erases damage caused by connor or uldred because she is nice... 

 

LoL pro-mages are extremely naive and blinded to mages crimes and try remove with with single good act...

No 1 saved person won't change fact that person caused death of hundreds if not more... and what intelligence have to saving someone even idiot can save someone...

[LobselVith8]

Ehh of course it does and please don't compare non-mages to mages and yes carta is still corrupted because of that as well circle was add to that that mages are walking bombs...

 

As i said i don't ignore anything because lanaya 1 individual hardly matters and we didn't even saw her in action as i said that she is naive and live in dark world nasty combination i can see another zathrian coming... and no that marethari clan have new keeper doesn't change fact she would (if not hawke) cause massive damage to the world... it is like saying that wynne erases damage caused by connor or uldred because she is nice... 

 

LoL pro-mages are extremely naive and blinded to mages crimes and try remove with with single good act...

No 1 saved person won't change fact that person caused death of hundreds if not more... and what intelligence have to saving someone even idiot can save someone...

 

No, it doesn't, because the player isn't in a position to actually met the multitude of people who make up the Circle of Kirkwall - quite literally, hundreds of people of varying ages; the Champion only encounters criminals. That's not sufficient enough to make a judgement about the denizens of the Gallows.

 

Considering Lanaya's backstory, I hardly think she's naive. She had a very dark past, and overcame that to be the best contender for First over several others, and what we do know about her time as Keeper is that she settles disputes with humans and does well in the royal court.

 

As for the abomination Marethari, she was stopped by Merrill and Hawke. Just like the red lyrium abomination Meredith was stopped by the Champion of Kirkwall and the moiety crew that banded with the Champion to stop the Knight-Commander. And it seems the Red Templars are an entire faction that consist of templars who are under the influence of the substance like Meredith was, with some apparently being mutated and deformed into horrible monstrosities.

 

I'm not seeing what's amusing about people disagreeing with you. You have an opinion, and so do I.

[TheKomandorShepard]

No, it doesn't, because the player isn't in a position to actually met the multitude of people who make up the Circle of Kirkwall - quite literally, hundreds of people of varying ages; the Champion only encounters criminals. That's not sufficient enough to make a judgement about the denizens of the Gallows.

 

Considering Lanaya's backstory, I hardly think she's naive. She had a very dark past, and overcame that to be the best contender for First over several others, and what we do know about her time as Keeper is that she settles disputes with humans and does well in the royal court.

 

As for the abomination Marethari, she was stopped by Merrill and Hawke. Just like the red lyrium abomination Meredith was stopped by the Champion of Kirkwall and the moiety crew that banded with the Champion to stop the Knight-Commander. And it seems the Red Templars are an entire faction that consist of templars who are under the influence of the substance like Meredith was, with some apparently being mutated and deformed into horrible monstrosities.

 

I'm not seeing what's amusing about people disagreeing with you. You have an opinion, and so do I.

 

Oh but we meet many of them during RoA and many of them before it most were abomnations or power hungry blood mages take your pick...

She is too much too trusting toward humans and others as well she have little knowledge about the world considering her questions for the warden humans will eat her leliana have dark backstory as well but is rather naive not so much as Lanaya but still.Lie it was only epilogue rumor aistair even says that humans-elves realations are rather bad in ferelden...

 

She was stoped by hawke if there is no hawke merril is eaten by pride demon and demon is free... another reason that red lyrium is as well dangerous and want same fate to it as for mages...

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to completely eliminate mages. Some people, such as Rolan, suggest this, but I'm not quite sure. I'm convinced that being a mage is like having achodroplasia. It's hereditary, but it's also a genetic mutation. So, even if no one in the world had achondroplasia, it can still randomly appear.

 

Agreed.

 

Hence why they need to be isolated from the majority of humanity.

 

Plus they occasionally show usefulness when it combats to killing heathen oxmen.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Agreed.

 

Hence why they need to be isolated from the majority of humanity.

 

Plus they occasionally show usefulness when it combats to killing heathen oxmen.

 

And darkspawn, and other mages. Apparently the Templars even use them against demons. I'm not sure of the wisdom of that move, and the Codex  specifically mentions that they're not so useful against Pride Demons, but apparently mages are used against the other demons with enough frequency that the Templar who wrote the Codex on Pride Demons felt that warning to be relevant.

[Master Warder Z_]

And darkspawn, and other mages. Apparently the Templars even use them against demons. I'm not sure of the wisdom of that move, and the Codex  specifically mentions that they're not so useful against Pride Demons, but apparently mages are used against the other demons with enough frequency that the Templar who wrote the Codex on Pride Demons felt that warning to be relevant.

 

o-o Templars are good at killing mages as well.

 

To the meat of the point though.

 

Given the date that practice could have fallen out of usage centuries before the DA ever rolled around. Assuming it was ever practice to begin with, It could just been a turn of phrase to include as if mages were in the area of battle, assuming a mage would join the fray rather then fleeing like a cowardly man girl in a skirt.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

o-o Templars are good at killing mages as well.

 

To the meat of the point though.

 

Given the date that practice could have fallen out of usage centuries before the DA ever rolled around. Assuming it was ever practice to begin with, It could just been a turn of phrase to include as if mages were in the area of battle, assuming a mage would join the fray rather then fleeing like a cowardly man girl in a skirt.

 

It's safe to assume that there's at least one mage to a Circle who has a decent pair.

[Master Warder Z_]

It's safe to assume that there's at least one mage to a Circle who has a decent pair.

 

It's safe to assume that Fereldan at least had one i suppose.

 

We all know who it is too!

 

 

Godwin Mage of the Circle!

[The Elder King]

I'd say Wynne had a pair. And Irving shown to be mentally strong enough resist at days of torture without falling.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'd say Wynne had a pair. And Irving shown to be mentally strong enough resist at days of torture without falling.

 

Disagree...filthy abomination.

 

._. And i guess Irving was alright, understood his place in the world; if he wasn't so blind and bitter i might like him better though.

[The Elder King]

Disagree...filthy abomination.
 
._. And i guess Irving was alright, understood his place in the world; if he wasn't so blind and bitter i might like him better though.

It wasn't her fault she was possessed though.
As for Irving, if you're referring to the mage Origins and his plan for catching Lily, I don't see the problem. She was violating the Chantry's law. It's not fair that mages get punished when they violated them and members of the Chantry doesn't.

[Master Warder Z_]

Something tells me you sided with the templars...

 

Mmm I suppose i do lean towards their banner.

 

I do not embrace it gladly mind you; The Chantry and Order both have their share of problems.

 

But it beats many of the alternatives that have been proposed and given the likelihood of the Circle being reinvented to quash this rebellion; I am in favor of ending this rebellion on terms that prevent it from occurring again anytime soon.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to completely eliminate mages. Some people, such as Rolan, suggest this, but I'm not quite sure. I'm convinced that being a mage is like having achodroplasia. It's hereditary, but it's also a genetic mutation. So, even if no one in the world had achondroplasia, it can still randomly appear.

 

entirely? no most of them yes they won't be such problemem when they are dead and we can hunt new-born mages which give thedas much more stabilization and protection when it comes about magic... 

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8, on 26 Feb 2014 - 7:15 PM, said:

Cullen. Act III. The Knight-Captain provides it as the reason why Grand Cleric Elthina can't oppose the templars by explaining that the templars have "dominion over mages by divine right". The developers have also said that Cullen is supposed to be an example of a moderate templar.

 

Wut?

I don't recall Cullen every saing that the Grand Cleric can't oppose the templars.
 

 

In re Blood Magic destroying the world: Blood Magic dominated the world once. It set up a potential apocalypse or two* but the fact remains that if the danger you think the evidence supports were real, the setting wouldn't have lasted long enough to reach the time period Origins is set in.

 

Since the wrold is still here, I gues the nuclear apocalype durign the cold war was never a REAL danger either?

It's not like there were numerous incidents where we were seconds away from pushingthe buttons.

 

Nope.

Evidenly survival is proof that the danger was never there.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I think the cultural and religious view that magic is a gift of the Creators would be more engaging for elven mages (who are now free from the oppressive regime of the Chantry controlled Circles) than the Andrastian doctrine of magic being a curse, and part of their origin sin fable.

 

Fallacies neverending.

 

1) You are so convinnced of the Chantry's teaching being a fable and the Dalish beliefs being true.. based on what?

 

2) You claim that Andrastian and Dalish teaching are opposed, because dalish call magic a gift and the Chatnry calls it a curse. You are (unsurprisingly) wrong.

The Chantry, beaing reasonable people, accept the dual nature of magic.

They call if a curse.. AND a GIFT. We heard that from both templars, chantry mothers and it's even in the Chant.
 

3) The Dalish glorification of magic doesn't go as high as you think it does. Even they recognize - at least to some extent - the dangers of magic. But their lack own culture and views prevent them from being effective at controling it. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing 2 entire dalish clans perishing because of their Keepers (mages)

[Lotion Soronarr]

Yes, but my point is that you can't really use their beliefs in an argument barring evidence to support those beliefs.

 

You have a point about blood magic being something that tempts its users to do evil, but there's still legitimate uses for it. I'll note that there's room for argument as to whether or not those legitimate uses cancel out the serious temptation to use it poorly, but they're still relevant to the argument. Though as far as the temptation goes, we see blood mages who resist it. One of whom (Jowan) otherwise has basically the weakest character of anyone in the series. So it's not inevitable that the mage will give in to this temptation.

 

 

Corrupton is not instantanious.

And you cannot use a system that relies on a strong moral character of a single person, then bombards that person with temptation.

 

Like I siad before, there's no end for the posibilities of abuse with blood magic.

And there's no reason to use it when regular magic does the job just fine.

 

So anyone using blood magic = off with his head. No exceptions.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

Since the wrold is still here, I gues the nuclear apocalype durign the cold war was never a REAL danger either?

It's not like there were numerous incidents where we were seconds away from pushingthe buttons.

 

Nope.

Evidenly survival is proof that the danger was never there.

 

 

As I understood it, the specific danger in question was that of blood mages becoming world-shattering abominations. Considering that despite the best efforts of the Chantry there still are abominations forming in their territory, and the fact that blood magic is still pretty popular in Tevinter, I'd say the fact that that hasn't happened yet is good evidence that abominations aren't a world-shattering danger. Just, you know, a city-shattering one.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Corrupton is not instantanious.

And you cannot use a system that relies on a strong moral character of a single person, then bombards that person with temptation.

 

Like I siad before, there's no end for the posibilities of abuse with blood magic.

And there's no reason to use it when regular magic does the job just fine.

 

So anyone using blood magic = off with his head. No exceptions.

I think you're overestimating the danger of corruption, and rather underestimating some of the threats Thedas faces. Against Tevinter (which uses this power), The darkspawn (which were apparently created using this power), and the Qunari (who have technological superiority) handicapping yourself might be fatal. I'll grant that it shouldn't be used where mana will suffice, but then the same is true of lyrium too. I'll even grant that most mages shouldn't learn it, but there are the one-in-a-hundred with real honor who can use power without it twisting them.

[LobselVith8]

 

LobselVith8, on 26 Feb 2014 - 7:15 PM, said:

 

Wut?

I don't recall Cullen every saing that the Grand Cleric can't oppose the templars.

 

When the Champion asks the Knight-Captain who the Grand Cleric will side with, Cullen says that she must side with the templars: "She is bound by faith and duty to support the templars. We have dominance over mages by divine right."

[Hellion Rex]

When the Champion asks the Knight-Captain who the Grand Cleric will side with, Cullen says that she must side with the templars: "She is bound by faith and duty to support the templars. We have dominance over mages by divine right."

And yet that is contested by Elthina herself who puts herself squarely in the middle, trying to defuse the tension between both groups.

[LobselVith8]

Fallacies neverending.

 

1) You are so convinnced of the Chantry's teaching being a fable and the Dalish beliefs being true.. based on what?

 

2) You claim that Andrastian and Dalish teaching are opposed, because dalish call magic a gift and the Chatnry calls it a curse. You are (unsurprisingly) wrong.

The Chantry, beaing reasonable people, accept the dual nature of magic.

They call if a curse.. AND a GIFT. We heard that from both templars, chantry mothers and it's even in the Chant.
 

3) The Dalish glorification of magic doesn't go as high as you think it does. Even they recognize - at least to some extent - the dangers of magic. But their lack own culture and views prevent them from being effective at controling it. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing 2 entire dalish clans perishing because of their Keepers (mages)

 

First, what are you talking about? I stated my preference for the Dalish and the elven pantheon over the Andrastian faith of the Chantry of Andraste, in part because they don't demonize magic and mages in the name of religion, since the People see it as a gift of the Creators, while the Chantry condemns it as a curse; that has nothing to do with my belief for one religion being true over the other.

 

Second, (in the narrative) only Greagoir calls it a gift and a curse; Keili, Bethany, and Meredith all call magic a curse, and the first two deal with a lot of mental anguish over being mages as a result of their religious convictions, and that's the kind of mindset that leads to Andrastians killing innocent mages, as Wynne talks about when she says mages outside the Circle are killed because ignorant Andrastians blame them for anything that goes wrong - from crops failing to the death of an infant.

 

Third, I doubt anyone doesn't recognize the dangers of magic. The difference between the Chantry and the Elvhen is that the latter doesn't vilify mages and magic as a whole because of that danger.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Chant of Light itself calls magic a gift, it's not just Greagoir.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Chant of Light itself calls magic a gift, it's not just Greagoir.

 

Indeed something to benefit humanity.

 

That said it also said that those who abuse said gift need to be destroyed.