645 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

The Chant of Light itself calls magic a gift, it's not just Greagoir.

I'm not completely fond of the way that's phrased, as it allows for it to be revoked by those who claim to be the Maker's representatives.

[dragonflight288]

The Chant of Light itself calls magic a gift, it's not just Greagoir.

 

This is true, but Gregoire is also the only person connected to the Chantry in the games itself that calls it such. Ser Bryant says they have more than just swords to fight the cursed magics. Ser Perth (a devout knight of Eamon, but not a templar or anything, simply devout) hates anything that has to do with magic, and prefers useless trinkets with the chantry symbol on it over anything that is magical that would actually help him. His exact words are "I don't approve of magic. But the chantry amulets are holy and bear the Chantry's symbol."

 

The revered mother has to reassure an Amell warden that she won't raise a mob against him/her. 

 

No one connected to the chantry besides Gregoire and the Chant itself ever calls magic a gift. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

This is true, but Gregoire is also the only person connected to the Chantry in the games itself that calls it such. Ser Bryant says they have more than just swords to fight the cursed magics. Ser Perth (a devout knight of Eamon, but not a templar or anything, simply devout) hates anything that has to do with magic, and prefers useless trinkets with the chantry symbol on it over anything that is magical that would actually help him. His exact words are "I don't approve of magic. But the chantry amulets are holy and bear the Chantry's symbol."

 

The revered mother has to reassure an Amell warden that she won't raise a mob against him/her. 

 

No one connected to the chantry besides Gregoire and the Chant itself ever calls magic a gift. 

 

LoL and why peoples should tell about magic something other than curse... mages are endless mine of disasters and are responsible for many disasters as well biggest when providing almost nothing but suffering , death and destruction by their existence peoples have reasons to see that as curse because it is curse it provides very little positive traits and massive negative traits... even if asked if you want to be mage on this forum most siad no so it proves it isn't gift only curse as well.

 

and pro-mage twisting word revered mother in redcliff said that warden don't have to worry she won't have problem with that s/he is mage.

 

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

even if asked if you want to be mage on this forum most siad no so it proves it isn't gift only curse as well.

Out of sincere curiosity, do you have the data for that?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Out of sincere curiosity, do you have the data for that?

Hmm i tried to find it but i can't find it topic was about which class do you would want (as person) to be if you could choose it wasn't very long time ago so someone should remember...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hmm i tried to find it but i can't find it topic was about which class do you would want (as person) to be if you could choose it wasn't very long time ago so someone should remember...

Aww, too bad. I would have liked to have read it. Oh, well. Thanks for trying to find it, Kommandor.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Hmm i tried to find it but i can't find it topic was about which class do you would want (as person) to be if you could choose it wasn't very long time ago so someone should remember...

I remember there being such a thread, and that I decided I wanted to be a rogue since the warriors and mages pay too much for their magic. (Since Templars get amnesia and Reavers apparently go psychotic.) I also remember a whole lot more wannabe mages than I'd have expected.

[dragonflight288]

 

and pro-mage twisting word revered mother in redcliff said that warden don't have to worry she won't have problem with that s/he is mage.

 

 

 

Revered Mother Hannah: Don't worry. I won't raise a mob against you.

 

Why on earth would she need to feel the need to say that, unless such things happened?

[TK514]

Revered Mother Hannah: Don't worry. I won't raise a mob against you.

Why on earth would she need to feel the need to say that, unless such things happened?

I don't recall the scene, so I'm requesting clarification on context. Namely, how does she know you're a Mage at this point, and how does she know you aren't an Apostate? Or is this just one of those unfortunate cases in game where NPCs just know things because they do.

As a Tangent, while I enjoyed DA:O, and still do, as time goes on and we have further entries into the setting (not just games, but books and animated features as well), its relevance seems to diminish. In my opinion, the writing team has changed direction on several things over the years that DA:O tends to take for granted as 'given'. Relatively recent developer quotes have called into question things like Dalish immortality, DA2 was a specific attempt, however poorly implemented, to rephrase the Templar/Mage issue to show both sides as equally right and wrong, and World of Thedas provides new information on various topics that overrules and contradicts previous developer statements. It seems clear to me that with each new entry, and as the writers get a better idea of what they want the setting to look like, DA:O becomes increasingly apocryphal. It's just not as relevant on some topics as it used to be.

[EmissaryofLies]

Mages and mundanes living side by side is a worthwhile goal. But at this point, it will surely take generations for all the hate and anger to even begin to dissipate. There's so much bad blood between them, that I don't see integration happening any time soon. 

 

The Andrastians hold all of the power. Why would they deign to let the mages be 'equal' when they can simply cage them up like they have been for damn near a millennia? 

 

It has taken and will continue to take oceans of blood for either side(mundanes/mages) to come to the table and seriously try to compromise.

[KaiserShep]

even if asked if you want to be mage on this forum most siad no so it proves it isn't gift only curse as well.

 

Heh, this could just as well have much to do with DA:O's mage class being a bit boring to play compared to the others.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Heh, this could just as well have much to do with DA:O's mage class being a bit boring to play compared to the others.

You jest, but that is probably an actual reason.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Mages and mundanes living side by side is a worthwhile goal. But at this point, it will surely take generations for all the hate and anger to even begin to dissipate. There's so much bad blood between them, that I don't see integration happening any time soon. 

 

The Andrastians hold all of the power. Why would they deign to let the mages be 'equal' when they can simply cage them up like they have been for damn near a millennia? 

 

It has taken and will continue to take oceans of blood for either side(mundanes/mages) to come to the table and seriously try to compromise.

The only way for the integration to begin again quickly is to have some sort of crisis that effects both sides since nothing brings people together more than tragedy. Incidentally, we will have such an event occur in the form of the Veil Tears. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Revered Mother Hannah: Don't worry. I won't raise a mob against you.

 

Why on earth would she need to feel the need to say that, unless such things happened?

 

 

because mages don't trust chantry and when you are making thing up it is truth when in theory chantry doctrine says that magic is gift and curse in practice majority of the members have negative view on magic (and i can see why). So i won't pretend that chantry isn't dandy as some pro-templars try to say. 

 

Ig mage show up they probably bring templar not rise a mob...

 

 

The only way for the integration to begin again quickly is to have some sort of crisis that effects both sides since nothing brings people together more than tragedy. Incidentally, we will have such an event occur in the form of the Veil Tears. 

 

Don't count that even if that will make them closer in what i doubt same was with humans and elves after fifth blight... they will accept each other very short time after crisis especially that mages are walking time bombs and endless mine of disasters non-mages quickly will hate them.

 

 

You jest, but that is probably an actual reason.

 

IT wasn't most even said that they would chose mages but thanks to their negative traits and penalties they won't and mostly rogue was final choice.

[EmissaryofLies]

The only way for the integration to begin again quickly is to have some sort of crisis that effects both sides since nothing brings people together more than tragedy. Incidentally, we will have such an event occur in the form of the Veil Tears. 

 

Yes. But alliances between enemies are fragile at best. 

 

If there is a moderate group, something like what Thrask was trying to do in DAII and they actually make an impact, I'd agree. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes. But alliances between enemies are fragile at best. 

 

If there is a moderate group, something like what Thrask was trying to do in DAII and they actually make an impact, I'd agree. 

Indeed. Well, hopefully the Inquisition may prove to be that moderate, stabilizing element that is desperately needed. It serves that group's interest because one less war means less Veil Tears, both in number and extremity. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Indeed. Well, hopefully the Inquisition may prove to be that moderate, stabilizing element that is desperately needed. It serves that group's interest because one less war means less Veil Tears, both in number and extremity. 

 

Both sides will likely need to put their war on hold for the duration of the crisis, achieving that will not be easy but it will be needed.

 

Hence why i think the Templar/ Mage conflict will continue past DAI and reach conclusion in its sequel.

[The Elder King]

Both sides will likely need to put their war on hold for the duration of the crisis, achieving that will not be easy but it will be needed.
 
Hence why i think the Templar/ Mage conflict will continue past DAI and reach conclusion in its sequel.

I think as well that the war might not end in DAI. Don't know about the sequel, since I think there are high chances for a Qunari invasion plot.

[Master Warder Z_]

I think as well that the war might not end in DAI. Don't know about the sequel, since I think there are high chances for a Qunari invasion plot.

 

It could occur at the same time but i personally think that the Qunari Invasion is long overdue already.

 

Damn Oxmen need to be routed again  

[dragonflight288]

I don't recall the scene, so I'm requesting clarification on context. Namely, how does she know you're a Mage at this point, and how does she know you aren't an Apostate? Or is this just one of those unfortunate cases in game where NPCs just know things because they do.

 

 

It's in Redcliff, if you tell Teagan you'll help. Talk to the Revered Mother, she'll only give the line if you're playing as a human mage. She thanks you for helping in their greatest need, and then proceeds to reassure the Warden that she won't raise a mob against them, and that they have other problems to deal with, like surviving the night. 

[dragonflight288]

 

because mages don't trust chantry and when you are making thing up it is truth when in theory chantry doctrine says that magic is gift and curse in practice majority of the members have negative view on magic (and i can see why). So i won't pretend that chantry isn't dandy as some pro-templars try to say.

 

It's more than just mages who say these things in the game. 

 

I happened to play an Andrastian mage, and before I even asked for a blessing she was making reassurances. 

 

Add in that many people in the game, like Duncan make it very clear that the Chantry only tolerates magic. Wynne says that mobs form and kill mages, sometimes even if they're children. 

 

It is not inconceivable that some of these mobs may have been raised by zealot members of the Chantry. It's not reaching for straws or changing the context when one of the first things she says to a human mage is that she won't raise a mob against him when taken into account everything else we hear in the game, from ser Bryant calling magic cursed, Ser Perth saying he doesn't trust any magic at all, Duncan saying that the Chantry barely tolerates magic and Irving saying that if they felt they could get away with it, they would tranquilize all mages and call it a kindness. 

 

It simply part of the game lore, and this is all established in Dragon Age Origins. I'm not changing any context because I sympathize with mages more than I do templars. It's because of these things adding up when I first played the game that made me want to sympathize with mages in the first place. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

 

It's more than just mages who say these things in the game. 

 

I happened to play an Andrastian mage, and before I even asked for a blessing she was making reassurances. 

 

Add in that many people in the game, like Duncan make it very clear that the Chantry only tolerates magic. Wynne says that mobs form and kill mages, sometimes even if they're children. 

 

It is not inconceivable that some of these mobs may have been raised by zealot members of the Chantry. It's not reaching for straws or changing the context when one of the first things she says to a human mage is that she won't raise a mob against him when taken into account everything else we hear in the game, from ser Bryant calling magic cursed, Ser Perth saying he doesn't trust any magic at all, Duncan saying that the Chantry barely tolerates magic and Irving saying that if they felt they could get away with it, they would tranquilize all mages and call it a kindness. 

 

It simply part of the game lore, and this is all established in Dragon Age Origins. I'm not changing any context because I sympathize with mages more than I do templars. It's because of these things adding up when I first played the game that made me want to sympathize with mages in the first place. 

 

 

better safe than sorry...

i pointed that many/most chantry members doesn't have positive view on magic because in practice there is no much positive to say about magic and mages so well... prehaps many of that is just "he is black so i hate him" but in mages it is more than "he is different so i hate him" and at least some have they are dangerous so i treat them as dangerous" same action different reasons and it more healthy stance than current divine views or thrask views when it comes about magic/mages.

 

Do you mean grand cleric in redcliff or lothering when you speak about blessing because as i recall that in redcliff doesn't have problems with giving blessing for mage i still renember morrigan shaking her head   if you talk about that in lothering she refuse give you blessing only when you didn't pay her...

 

Duncan said only that chantry doesn't want send mages to help with war and in truth chantry was again right because as we could saw uldred...

[Dean_the_Young]

 

 

It's more than just mages who say these things in the game. 

 

I happened to play an Andrastian mage, and before I even asked for a blessing she was making reassurances. 

 

Add in that many people in the game, like Duncan make it very clear that the Chantry only tolerates magic. Wynne says that mobs form and kill mages, sometimes even if they're children. 

 

It is not inconceivable that some of these mobs may have been raised by zealot members of the Chantry. It's not reaching for straws or changing the context when one of the first things she says to a human mage is that she won't raise a mob against him when taken into account everything else we hear in the game, from ser Bryant calling magic cursed, Ser Perth saying he doesn't trust any magic at all, Duncan saying that the Chantry barely tolerates magic and Irving saying that if they felt they could get away with it, they would tranquilize all mages and call it a kindness. 

 

It simply part of the game lore, and this is all established in Dragon Age Origins. I'm not changing any context because I sympathize with mages more than I do templars. It's because of these things adding up when I first played the game that made me want to sympathize with mages in the first place. 

 

 

There would be, however, a presumption to assert that anti-mage sentiment is a result of the Chantry, rather than reflected by it. Many people insist that the Chantry is the source of anti-mage sentiment that would not otherwise exist, rather than the the Chantry reflecting an already prevalent anti-mage sentiment. Chicken and egg, if you will. Considering the history and context at play, I suspect it's very much the later: in so much that the Chantry defines itself against the dangers of magic, it was a result of a very real time of strife and abuse of magic that still exists in not too distant corners of Thedas. Institutionalization of culture provides momentum to such widely held fears and views, but does not create them from a vacuum. Thinking you can destroy the fear by destroying the institution routinely misreads the culture at work.

 

 

And then some people have a tendency to assign the origin of views of people who identify with an organization to the organization itself, whether that organization has it as a doctrine at not. The views an organization tolerates being expressed by its members and the views an organization espouses as its own are not the same thing- at least in organizations that tolerate internal dissent and disagreement, like the Chantry does on a number of levels. We have Chantry officials who call magic a gift- others a curse. If neither is considered dogmatic truth by the institution, than neither view can be called the position of the institution. In which case, a Mother who preaches for or against magic is doing it on her own beliefs, and not as a reflection of dogma.

 

Which is pretty common in real life as well, all things considered.

[Dean_the_Young]

It's in Redcliff, if you tell Teagan you'll help. Talk to the Revered Mother, she'll only give the line if you're playing as a human mage. She thanks you for helping in their greatest need, and then proceeds to reassure the Warden that she won't raise a mob against them, and that they have other problems to deal with, like surviving the night. 

 

It's been awhile since I saw that line, and I don't remember the tone it was delivered with, but I took it as a world-reflecting reassurance of what she thought the Warden-mage might fear, not as a assertion of what she would normally do. Sort of like how in DA2 when Flemeth arrives and scoffs at the myth that she steals children as if she doesn't have anything better to do, it's meant to insinuate that she doesn't steal children rather than only not stealing children when something more important is at hand.

 

Awkwardly worded, sure, but I took it as a world-building drop to avoid another trite phrase such as 'as you know' or some equivalent.

[Savber100]

How about a system in where a force fights not for mages or tempars but for peace?

 

The Templars are too biased and the system is too open for abuse when Templars only task is to kill mages.

 

The mages are people with power which needs a check.

 

So create a force in where the purpose is to play the moderate who only uses violence when any side howls for blood.

 

This group will integrate both mages and templars, living by a code of peacekeeping.

 

Think the Jedis in where they actually gaiend the people's respect during the time of the Galactic Republic (sure there's the anti-Jedi sentiments but overall they were generally seen as heroes until the Sith took over)