645 réponses à ce sujet

[kuro_sasori]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Mages aren't just dangerus for me mages are dangerous for entire world just going by that they also dangerous for me.Now lets me explain why i know because mages can't be controlled why because mage can become abomnation at any moment of their life so they are ticking bombs and now we have abomnation you can't enforce them to follow your law because:
1)They are hostile
2)They are too powerful and strong to handle by any law enforcer
Mages and abomnations proved that they can and they brought and bring many mostly most harming disasters in thedas bum yes. 
Now we have question if small minority is worth so many victims and risk of end of the world i would say without involving morality yes even just for my safety...

So simple answer mages can't be controled as proven and abomnations always will exist unless you will kill mages... 

Apparently you do not know what hasty generalization is. So they are dangerous because they can become an abomination, hence they must be slaughtered according to you. However, out there people have weapons and kill each other, authority and power which they abuse, people who hides behind banners like that of religion to commit crimes and those are justifiable but being born, something you did not ask for, and to top it off being different makes you a danger to society. 
Having mages is convenient when there is a blight and even at times when there is civil unrest, as it was mentioned in Asunder, then they are seen as a solution, but as soon as that moment passes they are again seen as a plague. How quickly people forgets about those moments. Furthermore, after reading the novels I do not agree when you say they cannot be controlled, they do not need to be controlled, when nobody messes with them most mages are peaceful, they are just tired of carrying that stigma from the moment they are born.

[fhs33721]

I think people are generally overestimating the actual danger of mages. I mean sure: They can become abominations and go on a demon fuelled killing spree, but if they really were as dangerous as people belive Thedas would be a demon infested hellhole by now.
Surprise: it isn't.

To the idea of killing every mage:
First killing all mages seems unfeasible since you know... new ones get born everyday. And I seriously doubt that every parent that discovered their child was magical would hand it over to the templers to get it killed. I mean there are already cases where they refuse to hand them over to the circle (Isolde, Leandra, the DeLauncets, Merediths parents...). Imagine how much more parents would rather hide their kids magic than have them get killed.

Second Even if you somehow manage to kill all mages, do you think demons will suddenly stop being a threat? I hardly think so since it is establised that there are other means for demons to cross the veil. Great amounts of bloodshed weaken the veil and allow demons to enter thedas. This was niceley illustrarted in DAo the orphanage in the Alienage. Howes men slaughtered the children there and as a result we had demons inhabiting the place and turning the elves around the area crazy.

Further examples of demons causing harm without mage involvement:
Lady Harriman in DA2 wasn't a mage and still sold the souls of her entire family to a Desire Demon and caused the death of Sebastians family. In "The calling" the grey wardens encounter a demon in an abandoned Dwarven thaig that possesed an Dwarven king and slaughtered the entirety of the dwarves plus all darkspawn that was sieging them. Well surely the dwarf wasn't a mage.

So if you really want to stop demons to be a threat it seems that you have to kill all non-mages as well. Better get started.

[Laughing_Man]

fhs33721 wrote...

I think people are generally overestimating the actual danger of mages. I mean sure: They can become abominations and go on a demon fuelled killing spree, but if they really were as dangerous as people belive Thedas would be a demon infested hellhole by now.
Surprise: it isn't.

To the idea of killing every mage:
First killing all mages seems unfeasible since you know... new ones get born everyday. And I seriously doubt that every parent that discovered their child was magical would hand it over to the templers to get it killed. I mean there are already cases where they refuse to hand them over to the circle (Isolde, Leandra, the DeLauncets, Merediths parents...). Imagine how much more parents would rather hide their kids magic than have them get killed.

Second Even if you somehow manage to kill all mages, do you think demons will suddenly stop being a threat? I hardly think so since it is establised that there are other means for demons to cross the veil. Great amounts of bloodshed weaken the veil and allow demons to enter thedas. This was niceley illustrarted in DAo the orphanage in the Alienage. Howes men slaughtered the children there and as a result we had demons inhabiting the place and turning the elves around the area crazy.

Further examples of demons causing harm without mage involvement:
Lady Harriman in DA2 wasn't a mage and still sold the souls of her entire family to a Desire Demon and caused the death of Sebastians family. In "The calling" the grey wardens encounter a demon in an abandoned Dwarven thaig that possesed an Dwarven king and slaughtered the entirety of the dwarves plus all darkspawn that was sieging them. Well surely the dwarf wasn't a mage.

So if you really want to stop demons to be a threat it seems that you have to kill all non-mages as well. Better get started.

"Kill all da mages" is never really about security.
The idea of Mages manages to incite a deadly mix of emotions in some people, xenophobia and inferiority 
complexes for example. And than you add the fact that the religious guys are against it, and you have a ready-made crowd of magic haters.

I supposes I should respect bioware for managing to make a fantasy problem so... real, but because some of the similarities between various groups in this fantasy world and groups in the real world, it seems that *some* people are using the similarities as a way to preach their hate filled rants in a rather cowardly "politicaly correct" way.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 08 février 2014 - 12:17 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

kuroi_sasori wrote...


Apparently you do not know what hasty generalization is. So they are dangerous because they can become an abomination, hence they must be slaughtered according to you. However, out there people have weapons and kill each other, authority and power which they abuse, people who hides behind banners like that of religion to commit crimes and those are justifiable but being born, something you did not ask for, and to top it off being different makes you a danger to society. 
Having mages is convenient when there is a blight and even at times when there is civil unrest, as it was mentioned in Asunder, then they are seen as a solution, but as soon as that moment passes they are again seen as a plague. How quickly people forgets about those moments. Furthermore, after reading the novels I do not agree when you say they cannot be controlled, they do not need to be controlled, when nobody messes with them most mages are peaceful, they are just tired of carrying that stigma from the moment they are born.

Just love when peoples compare doomsday to hitler i doubt that there was authority that want destroy entire world humans have individually same capabilities or on smiliar level so individual can hurt 1 individual human need army and support of other peoples and never will be omnicidal maniac at least not in charge... 1 powerful abomnation can challenge cities alone and leave they can create other abomnation.Abomnation can bring zombie apocalypse. So no millions died because of blight that mages created and we have much more disasters caused by mages it isn't woth pathetic minority (few thousand) that can't win even 1 battle so sorry...

All we need for grey wardens is few mages and that if we assume that mages are required for joining and because of mages technology in thedas stays in same play only one who move on technologically are qunari who hate mages and dwarves who don't have mages...   

Ahaha yes peacefull do i have point disasters that mages caused through just 10 years timeline?And abomination is abomnation doesn't matter if good or evil mage every mage can end as one and many ends...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 08 février 2014 - 03:09 .

[Laughing_Man]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Just love when peoples compare doomsday to hitler i doubt that there was authority that want destroy entire world humans have individually same capabilities or on smiliar level so individual can hurt 1 individual human need army and support of other peoples and never will be omnicidal maniac at least not in charge... 1 powerful abomnation can challenge cities alone and leave they can create other abomnation.Abomnation can bring zombie apocalypse. So no millions died because of blight that mages created and we have much more disasters caused by mages it isn't woth pathetic minority (few thousand) that can't win even 1 battle so sorry...

All we need for grey wardens is few mages and that if we assume that mages are required for joining and because of mages technology in thedas stays in same play only one who move on technologically are qunari who hate mages and dwarves who don't have mages...   

Ahaha yes peacefull do i have point disasters that mages caused through just 10 years timeline?And abomination is abomnation doesn't matter if good or evil mage every mage can end as one and many ends...

That's just an enormous heap of BS.

If mages were such a large threat, and abominations this strong:

A. The world would have been destroyed or ruled by demons long before the Chantry came around.
B. Andraste would not have managed to free the slaves.
C. The Templar-Mage war would have ended with the templar side losing.

And if you kill all the mages, do you really think that the few survivors will help you against the darkspawn? Why should they?

P.S.
If you insist on writing here, at least have the decency to download and use some kind of spell-checking program. Or something.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 08 février 2014 - 12:33 .

[fhs33721]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


Just love when peoples compare doomsday to hitler i doubt that there was authority that want destroy entire world humans have individually same capabilities or on smiliar level so individual can hurt 1 individual human need army and support of other peoples and never will be omnicidal maniac at least not in charge... 1 powerful abomnation can challenge cities alone and leave they can create other abomnation.Abomnation can bring zombie apocalypse. So no millions died because of blight that mages created and we have much more disasters caused by mages it isn't woth pathetic minority (few thousand) that can't win even 1 battle so sorry...

All we need for grey wardens is few mages and that if we assume that mages are required for joining and because of mages technology in thedas stays in same play only one who move on technologically are qunari who hate mages and dwarves who don't have mages...   

Ahaha yes peacefull do i have point disasters that mages caused through just 10 years timeline?And abomination is abomnation doesn't matter if good or evil mage every mage can end as one and many ends...

You fail to realize that demons won't just magically dissapear if you kill mages istead of locking them away. They can and will find other ways to cross the veil to **** things up. They have done so before and will most certainly do so again.
You will have to kill non-mages as well to stop them from commiting bloodshed and enabling demons to cross.

Oh and also better kill all wolves and trees because they can be possessed as well. Yes you should definitely burn down all trees they are clearly too big a danger.
And kill all those corpses that are lieing around, because they could become powerful Revenants. Oh wait they are already dead. In that case burn them. Well maybe it would be the safest option to burn down the entire planet yes?

[kuro_sasori]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Just love when peoples compare doomsday to hitler i doubt that there was authority that want destroy entire world humans have individually same capabilities or on smiliar level so individual can hurt 1 individual human need army and support of other peoples and never will be omnicidal maniac at least not in charge... 1 powerful abomnation can challenge cities alone and leave they can create other abomnation.Abomnation can bring zombie apocalypse. So no millions died because of blight that mages created and we have much more disasters caused by mages it isn't woth pathetic minority (few thousand) that can't win even 1 battle so sorry...

All we need for grey wardens is few mages and that if we assume that mages are required for joining and because of mages technology in thedas stays in same play only one who move on technologically are qunari who hate mages and dwarves who don't have mages...   

Ahaha yes peacefull do i have point disasters that mages caused through just 10 years timeline?And abomination is abomnation doesn't matter if good or evil mage every mage can end as one and many ends...

OK, first of all I had no idea what this doomsday you mentioned was, so thanks for including the link. I did not say  anything about authorities destroying the world; I mentioned authorities who abuse the power invested on them. I know one individual can harm other if so wishes to do, but what you do not seem to understand is that in order to do that you need to have the willingness to do it. Once a person has the desire to kill then that person can hardly be considered a human anymore. You do understand the word humanity has a deeper meaning. don't you? I do understand that mages are powerful and that they would not fit the category of "normal" individuals, but that does not make them less human than any other person in Thedas. 
Now you blame all mages because a few of them caused the blights, but why would every single one of them pay for something they did not do and did not even support? You want to doom all of them because you said is a risk to let them be based on  the actions of individuals not the collective. 
Should the Qunari decide to attack, I doubt any nation would have the power to oppose them, not without the help of mages. Qunari fear them because they do not understand them and that happens quite often even in real life, what is unknown, is also feared many a time. 
You also say that they had caused many bad things in 10 years, but before that there were wars, Orlais attacking Ferelden, now there is a civil war in Orlais just because people seeks power and they were not caused by mages, so violence and its different manifestations don't just come in the form of a mage. But, it seems like you and I are not going to agree on this and I respect your point of view even if I do not share it. Lets agree to disagree on this matter, shall we? Unless you want to continue lol jk 

Modifié par kuroi_sasori, 08 février 2014 - 12:52 .

[Inprea]

I'm not going to say much about the ethics or how impractical the notion of killing all mages is. People have already done that. I am going to say though it's funny how people think they're such a huge threat when really they don't hold a candle to famine or sickness in an ancient setting. How many children do you believe most parents lost to illness or hunger in medieval times? If we want to talk realism here it would be hard to keep those mages trained in healing locked up, if not impossible, just because the crowds of people trying to bash the circle doors down.

I mean seriously. You have a child laying there dieing of smallpox, maybe your first born, and you know that there is a mage that if you can get her to your home or bring your child to her she can just wiggle her fingers and your child will be fine and the only thing between you and your child's life is some jackasses in armor. Who are you going to hate?

We don't even know what all mages could do to prevent famine given how few we've seen manipulate plant life. We know they are mages who study it though. Plus it seems reasonable to me that if a mage can create ice they can create water. So when a drouth came along there would be another push to get the mage who can conjure water out and into the fields.

The book on creation mage in the circle tower even hinted that mages trained in healing are in great demand even during times of peace. Which honestly leaves me wondering why those mages who want freedom don't simply set down and learn to heal instead of learning to throw lightning. Bioware just does a rather poor job of showing this. Well unless you consider that the peasants were willing to die fighting in order to protect Anders even knowing he's a mage because he's healing their sick.

[mikeymoonshine]

The Tevinter Imperium exists/existed because some Mages are Immensely powerful, especially if they are blood mages.

Surely a decision to kill all mages would result in many mages going crazy/fighting back and becoming possessed. Maybe the fear that causes the oppression of mages is also the fear that turns many people against killing them all.

There will be a Mage vs Templar war of some kind going on during Inquisition and The Chantry apparently wanted to negotiate with the Mages. Maybe this is because many fear a conflict with the Mages as much as if not more than the existence of them.

Modifié par mikeymoonshine, 08 février 2014 - 01:14 .

[Laughing_Man]

Inprea wrote...
The book on creation mage in the circle tower even hinted that mages trained in healing are in great demand even during times of peace. Which honestly leaves me wondering why those mages who want freedom don't simply set down and learn to heal instead of learning to throw lightning. Bioware just does a rather poor job of showing this. Well unless you consider that the peasants were willing to die fighting in order to protect Anders even knowing he's a mage because he's healing their sick.

Because the DA story is tailored to put emphasis on the bad side of magic, by disregarding and silencing almost every positive quality about it.

After all, if powerful healers were allowed to perform actual miracles, that may lead some people to question the need in the extensive powers that were given to the chantry, after seeing that Mages can be powerful, sane, AND good.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 08 février 2014 - 01:29 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheRedVipress wrote...
The idea of Mages manages to incite a deadly mix of emotions in some people, xenophobia and inferiority 
complexes
for example. And than you add the fact that the religious guys are
against it, and you have a ready-made crowd of magic haters.

The idea of Mages manages to incite a deadly mix of emotions in some people, paranoia and superiority
complexes
for example. And than you add the fact that the religious guys are
against it, and you have a ready-made crowd of magesupremacists.

I supposes I should respect bioware for managing to make a fantasy
problem so... real, but because some of the similarities between various
groups in this fantasy world and groups in the real world, it seems
that *some* people are using the similarities as a way to preach their
hate filled rants in a rather cowardly "politicaly correct" way.

That goes both ways.

Because the DA story is tailored to put emphasis on the bad side of
magic, by disregarding and silencing almost every positive quality about
it.

It didn't. It showed boith sides of magic.
Unfortunately, being a mage in DA comes with some very hefty downsides.

Also, as far as I can gather, not every mage is capable ofmasteringeverything, and healing is a skill few mages are capable of.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 08 février 2014 - 01:46 .

[mikeymoonshine]

It didn't. It showed boith sides of magic.
Unfortunately, being a mage in DA comes with some very hefty downsides.

Also, as far as I can gather, not every mage is capable ofmasteringeverything, and healing is a skill few mages are capable of.

DA2 didn't though, it showed the worst of magic with almost no exceptions at all. I think there was probably a good reason for this though. Origins was more balanced but even that one spent allot more time on the down sides. 

[Anvos]

OP seems to forget a few things

1. When there were few enough mages for this to conceivably work mages weren't feared and hated widely, it took thousands of years before the blight and then Andrastian Chantry came along making public sentiment turn against mages.

2. The average citizen more fears than hates magic. Plus I think most peasants realize without soldier backing a trained mage could kill a large amount of them before being brought down if they tried to kill the mage.

3. Willingly possessed mages are far more dangerous than abominations, and if you try to exterminate them the rate of willing possession will skyrocket.

4. The White Divine view on mages doesn't exist in Tevintar as they found ways to use the Chantry's own scripture to limit the importance of Andraste and reverse it to magic is a gift of the Maker. Furthermore while they mightn't see the Templar vs Mage War as a reason to get involved start genociding mages might change that notion to sending the Legions south.

5. Mages are one of Thedas' best weapons and the Qun is largely a bigger threat to Thedas than mages.

6. While Tevintar did prove mage born had a higher chance of children having magic than others the ability to birth a mage exists in pretty much everybody except dwarves (too weak of fade connection).

7. Demons only go after mages because they have the strongest fade connection, but if you remove those then demons will start looking to normals.

Modifié par Anvos, 08 février 2014 - 03:23 .

[Inprea]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It didn't. It showed boith sides of magic.
Unfortunately, being a mage in DA comes with some very hefty downsides.

Also, as far as I can gather, not every mage is capable ofmasteringeverything, and healing is a skill few mages are capable of.

I'm going to call bull crap. DA has done a horrible job of showing both sides of magic. We have Uldred's rebellion, the darkspawn supposedly, Conner, the sickness caused by the Tivinter mages and slaving, the demons at soldier's peak, the baroness in black marsh (spelling?) and other issues all showing the dangers of magic.

How many things do we have showing the benefits of magic? Those few cases we do have are of mages trying to fix problems caused by other mages which only makes it look like the world would be better off without magic.

What proof do you have that creation magic is any more difficult to learn then primal other then the writers doing a poor job of representing mages trained in such craft?

What little evidence we do have of another aspect to magic comes from the codex or off to the side comments one might miss. LIke Duncan mentioning that he wants one mage for every unit of soldier but Gregoir is blocking the first enchanter from sending more to help with the war effort. Which that just makes it look like the reason mages can't do any good is the templars don't let them.

[AngryFrozenWater]

In DA:O's "Broken Circle" we see that not only mages can be possessed, but also the templars. So fighting the mages is fighting a symptom. It's not a cure for the main problem: The demons of the Fade.

[TheKomandorShepard]

kuroi_sasori wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Just love when peoples compare doomsday to hitler i doubt that there was authority that want destroy entire world humans have individually same capabilities or on smiliar level so individual can hurt 1 individual human need army and support of other peoples and never will be omnicidal maniac at least not in charge... 1 powerful abomnation can challenge cities alone and leave they can create other abomnation.Abomnation can bring zombie apocalypse. So no millions died because of blight that mages created and we have much more disasters caused by mages it isn't woth pathetic minority (few thousand) that can't win even 1 battle so sorry...

All we need for grey wardens is few mages and that if we assume that mages are required for joining and because of mages technology in thedas stays in same play only one who move on technologically are qunari who hate mages and dwarves who don't have mages...   

Ahaha yes peacefull do i have point disasters that mages caused through just 10 years timeline?And abomination is abomnation doesn't matter if good or evil mage every mage can end as one and many ends...

OK, first of all I had no idea what this doomsday you mentioned was, so thanks for including the link. I did not say  anything about authorities destroying the world; I mentioned authorities who abuse the power invested on them. I know one individual can harm other if so wishes to do, but what you do not seem to understand is that in order to do that you need to have the willingness to do it. Once a person has the desire to kill then that person can hardly be considered a human anymore. You do understand the word humanity has a deeper meaning. don't you? I do understand that mages are powerful and that they would not fit the category of "normal" individuals, but that does not make them less human than any other person in Thedas. 
Now you blame all mages because a few of them caused the blights, but why would every single one of them pay for something they did not do and did not even support? You want to doom all of them because you said is a risk to let them be based on  the actions of individuals not the collective. 
Should the Qunari decide to attack, I doubt any nation would have the power to oppose them, not without the help of mages. Qunari fear them because they do not understand them and that happens quite often even in real life, what is unknown, is also feared many a time. 
You also say that they had caused many bad things in 10 years, but before that there were wars, Orlais attacking Ferelden, now there is a civil war in Orlais just because people seeks power and they were not caused by mages, so violence and its different manifestations don't just come in the form of a mage. But, it seems like you and I are not going to agree on this and I respect your point of view even if I do not share it. Lets agree to disagree on this matter, shall we? Unless you want to continue lol jk 

Ok so lets start abomnation can be anyone from amoral pr*** to mother theresa in mage version so doesn't matter as i said normal person won't go into "destroy world" territory when mage as abomination will and unilike normal person abomnation have measures to do that... and to be honest humans or not they are also mages what makes them ticking bomb and only way to defuse that bomb is kill mage.About qunari perhaps they would perhaps don't but as i said mages are stop technology... 
War between nations always existed and will but it won't never destory humans war is directed toward nation not humankind and army is needed in such case... abomnation attacks and kill everyone and abomnation can be every mage in every moment of their life...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

In DA:O's "Broken Circle" we see
that not only mages can be possessed, but also the templars. So
fighting the mages is fighting a symptom. It's not a cure for the main
problem: The demons of the Fade.

And what is point demons were summoned by uldred (mage) and then "possessed" templars as they were only mind-controled by demons 

TheRedVipress wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Just love when peoples compare doomsday
to hitler i doubt that there was authority that want destroy entire
world humans have individually same capabilities or on smiliar level so
individual can hurt 1 individual human need army and support of other
peoples and never will be omnicidal maniac at least not in charge... 1
powerful abomnation can challenge cities alone and leave they can create
other abomnation.Abomnation can bring zombie apocalypse. So no millions
died because of blight that mages created and we have much more
disasters caused by mages it isn't woth pathetic minority (few thousand)
that can't win even 1 battle so sorry...

All we need for grey
wardens is few mages and that if we assume that mages are required for
joining and because of mages technology in thedas stays in same play
only one who move on technologically are qunari who hate mages and
dwarves who don't have mages...   

Ahaha yes peacefull do i have
point disasters that mages caused through just 10 years timeline?And
abomination is abomnation doesn't matter if good or evil mage every mage
can end as one and many ends...

That's just an enormous heap of BS.

If mages were such a large threat, and abominations this strong:

A. The world would have been destroyed or ruled by demons long before the Chantry came around.
B. Andraste would not have managed to free the slaves.
C. The Templar-Mage war would have ended with the templar side losing.

And if you kill all the mages, do you really think that the few survivors will help you against the darkspawn? Why should they?

P.S.
If you insist on writing here, at least have the decency to download and use some kind of spell-checking program. Or something.

Sorry but what
1.We don't know how things worked before and how in first tevinter mages were controled perhaps demons came later as far we don't have any information how old magisters were dealing with that but if that was necessary i can bet they were dealing with it brutaly... after that in scane came inquisition that was hunting mages and abomnations thing were so bad then chantry and templars...
2.As far i remember andraste was dealing with blood magic and devastated tevinter empire not abomnations and we don't know what measures she had so...
3.Not rly templars are even holding against weaker abomnations and they outnumber them as long abomnation isn't free for too long to take some serious actions like creating army of undeads so as far templars are only effective way to deal with magic or abomnations but it may end templars defeat if powerful demon will possess powerful mage.
4.Why i should ask them?

fhs33721 wrote...

You fail to realize that demons won't
just magically dissapear if you kill mages istead of locking them away.
They can and will find other ways to cross the veil to **** things up.
They have done so before and will most certainly do so again.
You will have to kill non-mages as well to stop them from commiting bloodshed and enabling demons to cross.

Oh
and also better kill all wolves and trees because they can be possessed
as well. Yes you should definitely burn down all trees they are clearly
too big a danger.
And kill all those corpses that are lieing
around, because they could become powerful Revenants. Oh wait they are
already dead. In that case burn them. Well maybe it would be the safest
option to burn down the entire planet yes?

Not rly without mages only way to cross veil for demon will be torn veil or weakened veil and even that without mages will be slower process as magic weakens and it is quickest way to do that beyond that there are 2 other ways for demon and can achieve that only with mage first is most common is possess mage (and here we deal with abomnation most powerful combination) and another being summoned by blood mage.

And as i said wolves and trees and everything including normal person can be possesed once demon cross veil when veil is torn and for that point that was rare unless we think as well about areas when veil was torn by mages and even then such creature isn't so dangerous as abomnation.So pointless...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 08 février 2014 - 03:26 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

again this bulls*t about dangerous mages)))

people, mages exist in Thedas for more than 8500 years and your Orlais Chantry Circles and n*zi Templars Order only ~600 and they do so many sh*t

the Orlais Chanty and their Templars in 99% are the only reasons why some mages in Thedas became dangerous and crazy and we have demons problems

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 février 2014 - 03:30 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dark Korsar wrote...

again this bull**** about dangerous mages)))

people, mages exist in Thedas for more than 8500 years and your Orlais Chantry Circles and Templars Order only ~600

the Orlais Chanty and their Templars are the reasons why some mages in Thedas became dangerous and crazy

Not rly we don't know how tevinter was dealing with mages or even if demons were threat then or even how things were working...

Yeah first tevinter and their march on black city yeah thanks for blight as*****

[Asdrubael Vect]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

again this bull**** about dangerous mages)))

people, mages exist in Thedas for more than 8500 years and your Orlais Chantry Circles and Templars Order only ~600

the Orlais Chanty and their Templars are the reasons why some mages in Thedas became dangerous and crazy

Not rly we don't know how tevinter was dealing with mages or even if demons were threat then or even how things were working...

Yeah first tevinter and their march on black city yeah thanks for blight as*****

Old Gods and stupid greedy humankind story...the Old Gods are the reasons of Blights and darkspawns

and if someone do not know the Tevinter blood mages create Grey Wardens with ancient elven knoledges

and all darkspawns came from deep roads and not from Old God Temples when Ancient Tevinters-90% Thedas humans do their sacrifices

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 février 2014 - 03:35 .

[Anvos]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

again this bull**** about dangerous mages)))

people, mages exist in Thedas for more than 8500 years and your Orlais Chantry Circles and Templars Order only ~600

the Orlais Chanty and their Templars are the reasons why some mages in Thedas became dangerous and crazy

Not rly we don't know how tevinter was dealing with mages or even if demons were threat then or even how things were working...

Yeah first tevinter and their march on black city yeah thanks for blight as*****

According to Tevintar and the only person (Corypheous) that we know of possibly being there the Golden City was already black when they got there.

Not to mention Hawke's expedition raises the question of were there some form of darkspawn even in the days of Primordial Dwarves, which far predates the Imperium's attempt to enter the Golden City.

Modifié par Anvos, 08 février 2014 - 03:35 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Old Gods and stupid greedy humankind story

You mean stupid greedy mages story because i doubt that non-mages were involved as something more than soldiers oh also we have huge slavery and sacrifice of thousands of slaves to get power by mages.Without being mage you wouldn't do that so well mages were crazy before as well and quentin and other mages didn't need chantry to be insane... 

Anvos wrote...


According to Tevintar and the only
person (Corypheous) that we know of possibly being there the Golden City
was already black when they got there.

Not to mention Hawke's
expedition raises the question of were there some form of darkspawn even
in the days of Primordial Dwarves, which far predates the Imperium's
attempt to enter the Golden City.

That changes a little whether it was maker who cursed them or just they went to place that they shouldn't like black city ultimately they brought taint so chantry verion is at least partially true and that was mages
fault if darkspawn corry isn't prove i don't know what is...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 08 février 2014 - 03:42 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

the humans who was in the deeep roads in some "dark place" where Corynfeus was, were not a reason of Darkspawns and blight as only Orlais Chantry claimed after 2 blight..dwarfs and elves says that this is bull****

all darkspawns came from deep roads and not from Old God Temples when Ancient Tevinters-90% Thedas humans do their sacrifices....and there was no any sacrifices and travel in fade to Black City like Orlais Chantry claimed after 2 blight

Corynfeus for Tevinter Grey Wardens who found and inprison him after 1 blight was just a crazy talking darkspawn with magic powers...noone talk about Golden city and magisters and other Chantry bull****

all Darkspawns are BORN and all creatures-even dragons who have contact with taint just became ghouls-slaves for darkspans who soon die and be food...they are not darkspans, cant create brodmothers what only darkspans can do with survived ghouls females

all Old Gods are already Archdeamons and have calling, and all original darkspawns came from their tombs in deep roads, and Grey Wardens like Bregan actually know their location

blights was before and ancient elves does know about taint, this is why with their ancient knoledge Magisters can create Grey Wardens and this is why Old Gods destroy Arlathan with their army of demons, dragons and ancient humans barbarians

the blight was before then Orlais Chanty claims, after 15 years then "magisters came to fade" all Dwarven Empire(Only a 4 thaigs(at the end only 2) survived from +22 thaigs and miles of deep roads) was destroed and darkspans was on a surface destroing all Thedas...this is impossible for Darkspawns to create such enormous army for 15 years and conquer so much territories....just look at other 4 blights history

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 février 2014 - 04:06 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dark Korsar wrote...

the humans who was in the deeep roads in some "dark place" where Corynfeus was, were not a reason of Darkspawns and blight as only Orlais Chantry claimed after 2 blight..dwarfs and elves says that this is bull****

all darkspawns came from deep roads and not from Old God Temples when Ancient Tevinters-90% Thedas humans do their sacrifices....and there was no any sacrifices and travel in fade to Black City like Orlais Chantry claimed after 2 blight

Corynfeus for Tevinter Grey Wardens who found and inprison him after 1 blight was just a crazy talking darkspawn with magic powers...noone talk about Golden city and magisters and other Chantry bull****

all Darkspawns are BORN and all creatures-even dragons who have contact with taint just became ghouls-slaves for darkspans who soon die and be food...they are not darkspans, cant create brodmothers what only darkspans can do with survived ghouls females

all Old Gods are already Archdeamons and have calling, and all original darkspawns came from their tombs in deep roads, and Grey Wardens like Bregan actually know their location

blights was before and ancient elves does know about taint, this is why with their ancient knoledge Magisters can create Grey Wardens and this is why Old Gods destroy Arlathan with their army of demons, dragons and ancient humans barbarians

the blight was before then Orlais Chanty claims, after 15 years then "magisters came to fade" all Dwarven Empire(Only a 4 thaigs(at the end only 2) survived from +22 thaigs and miles of deep roads) was destroed and darkspans was on a surface destroing all Thedas...this is impossible for Darkspawns to create such enormous army for 15 years and conquer so much territories....just look at other 4 blights history

So how corry was darkspawn and why last thing he remembered was black city if that wasn't magisters behind creating darkspawn and why old gods who tricked ended in deep roads (they are still untainted) ... he was surprised that he is in dwarven kingdom or more what left of it so... another matter that darkspawn are bonded to old gods which even more put into black city incident...

Everythings fits to chantry version even anders admitted it...
And another matter that we don't know what happened in black city magisters would simple unleash something that turned many peoples into darkspawn...

As far chantry version is closest truth and as i said only prove we have is corry only witness that confirms chantry versions 

[fhs33721]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


Not rly without mages only way to cross veil for demon will be torn veil or weakened veil and even that without mages will be slower process as magic weakens and it is quickest way to do that beyond that there are 2 other ways for demon and can achieve that only with mage first is most common is possess mage (and here we deal with abomnation most powerful combination) and another being summoned by blood mage.

And as i said wolves and trees and everything including normal person can be possesed once demon cross veil when veil is torn and for that point that was rare unless we think as well about areas when veil was torn by mages and even then such creature isn't so dangerous as abomnation.So pointless...

Well over the course of two games and some novels we had quite a few insantces where demons caused harm without mage-assistance of any sorts, so it can not be that rare.  For example we had:
The elven orphanage were demons crossed thanks to Arl Howes random slauhgter of children.
Lady Harriman selling her family to a Desire Demon although she wasn't a mage
Demons in Bartrands estate after he experimented with red lyrium and tortured his servants.
The possessed dwarven king/noble in "the calling". Im quite sure he wasn't a mage.
Also the primeveal Thaig was swarming with demons although I doubt there were many mages around since it is a dwarfen thaig.

Second to the bolded part: Well the last time I checked Revenants are capable of slaughtering  whole squads of templars easily. It even says that in their codex.
Also shades can be extremely powerful. Like the one that was sealed away under Vigils keep. They are supposed to be abe to suck the life out of their victims from the shadows without even being noticed. Just because they are often used as trash-mobs during gameplay doesn't mean that they are weak -lore wise. And even if you think that, then I have to remind you that abominations are used as trash-mobs as well.

Therefore no I don't agree that abominations are universially more dangerous than any other demonic being.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm a little late to this party, but let's look at the history...


Mages rise to absolute dominance with the Tevinter empire for millenia.

Tevinter Magisters unleash Blight insanity.

Mages are seen as a necessary evil to fight Darkspawn.


There really hasn't been an opportunity when Mundanes were in control and yet didn't need to keep Mages as a weapon in their back pocket.