645 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

@Master Warden Z

You have to admit blaming all those who have magical powers for the actions of a few Tevinter Magisters simply because they used magic as a means to enter the Golden City and release the Darkspawn threat is awfully generalizing. That's like saying "A few nobles are using their power to rape people. We should kill or castrate all nobles."

I don't blame the Magisters alone.  I blame the Magisters and those they had murder thousands of elves to power the ritual.

I don't seriously believe ten mages personally slaughtered thousands, or personally used up 2/3rds of the lyrium in the Empire at the time.  They were the focus of the ritual, to be sure, but I would be shocked if we were told they were the only ones performing it.

As for the current mage problem, I don't think killing all mages is necessary.  I, personally, am pro-Circle and, to an extent,  anti-'Whatever the BSN Pro-Mage population thinks is a good idea'.  I think a well run Circle, with as much freedom as could be expected from an effective total quarantine program, would be ideal.  The Tranquil and the Templars would conduct any and all business with the outside world on behalf of the Mages, and there would be a zero tolerance policy on people attempting to break out or break in.  The only time Mages would interact with the outside populace even close to directly would be during times of extreme crisis.

Of course, I also think the policy of 'put them in whatever building we have handy, regardless of where it is or what it was originally for' is absurd.  Mages Circles should be specifically designed and built with their inhabitants in mind.  They should have interior courtyards where mages can be outdoors.  They should have open spaces and naturally well-lit rooms.  They should have places for plants and greenery, and as importantly, there should be places to congregate and to play.  Entertainment is as important to mental health as anything else, and from the limited slices of Circle life we've seen, there don't appear to be many, if any, places dedicated purely to that purpose.  To put in a simpler way, Mage Circles should be less 'big mage building' and more 'enclosed mage village'. 

If they want to have children?  That's fine, but they should understand that the budget for resources is limited, and additional population does not mean additional supplies.  If a Circle is supplied monthly for 100 adults, and mages have kids, then they have to figure out how to make food for 100 adults meet the new demand.  They should also keep in mind that no one leaves the Circle.  If two mages have a kid who turns out normal, then they have to figure out how to raise a normal kid in a mage enclave on limited supplies.  As such, it would behoove them to institue their own population controls.  If they want to dedicate space to growing supplimental crops, that's fine, but that's on them to decide.

And for the love of sanity, don't be a moron and build a Circle anywhere near a city, much less in one.  That's just the height of stupidity.  Build them in remote, isolated, and inhospitable regions no one would want anything to do with.  Deserts.  Tundra.  High Mountain fastnesses.  Islands out of sight of land.  And, if possible, keep the locations secret.

A normal person's interaction with even the idea of Mages should be "My cousin knew a guy who's neighbor's sister lived in a village where a little girl maybe burned down a barn and vanished the next day."  Mages view of the outside world should be an endless vista devoid of signs of civilization beyond the Circle.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

It's not a baseless generalization but i do admit it is a generalization.

Its just all Mages have capacity for horrors far beyond those not cursed with magic.

Sure Humans can commit their own horror stories with out and do so within our own reality, but they do not become posssed at the drop of a hat due to exhaustion or lack of willpower.

But of course you know this.

Point of it is though, Plain old Humans are restricted in the ways they commit horror stories, they stick to tried and true and mostly realistic means. They cannot seize control of your mind or blast people away with a blast of kinetic energy.

So my point is.

Mages are dangerous, more so beyond their magic because as history as shown they are still subject to the vices and stupidity of their species.

And thus they cannot be trusted with powers beyond the majority of their species.

Its a conclusion i have shared with people on several threads here, Mages are no more then walking, ticking time bombs and should be treated as such.

Or beheaded.

Their choice really.

At least you admit it is a generalization. 

And yeah, I see that the only way for mages to have any sense of freedom would have to come with restrictions. That's a universal truth for any society because that's what it means to be part of a society. You sacrifice some personal freedoms for the safety of the community.

Now do I think locking them in a tower for the entirety of their lives will work? Not really. All that does is create detachment from both sides, as seen in the games. It's easier to think little of others when you know almost nothing about them. It's when bonds are formed that the reluctance to do the evil measures becomes more of an issue because now the person has a face of someone they formed a bond with that will somewhat restrain their impulses. 

[Master Warder Z_]

TK514 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

@Master Warden Z

You have to admit blaming all those who have magical powers for the actions of a few Tevinter Magisters simply because they used magic as a means to enter the Golden City and release the Darkspawn threat is awfully generalizing. That's like saying "A few nobles are using their power to rape people. We should kill or castrate all nobles."

I don't blame the Magisters alone.  I blame the Magisters and those they had murder thousands of elves to power the ritual.

I don't seriously believe ten mages personally slaughtered thousands, or personally used up 2/3rds of the lyrium in the Empire at the time.  They were the focus of the ritual, to be sure, but I would be shocked if we were told they were the only ones performing it.

As for the current mage problem, I don't think killing all mages is necessary.  I, personally, am pro-Circle and, to an extent,  anti-'Whatever the BSN Pro-Mage population thinks is a good idea'.  I think a well run Circle, with as much freedom as could be expected from an effective total quarantine program, would be ideal.  The Tranquil and the Templars would conduct any and all business with the outside world on behalf of the Mages, and there would be a zero tolerance policy on people attempting to break out or break in.  The only time Mages would interact with the outside populace even close to directly would be during times of extreme crisis.

Of course, I also think the policy of 'put them in whatever building we have handy, regardless of where it is or what it was originally for' is absurd.  Mages Circles should be specifically designed and built with their inhabitants in mind.  They should have interior courtyards where mages can be outdoors.  They should have open spaces and naturally well-lit rooms.  They should have places for plants and greenery, and as importantly, there should be places to congregate and to play.  Entertainment is as important to mental health as anything else, and from the limited slices of Circle life we've seen, there don't appear to be many, if any, places dedicated purely to that purpose.  To put in a simpler way, Mage Circles should be less 'big mage building' and more 'enclosed mage village'. 

If they want to have children?  That's fine, but they should understand that the budget for resources is limited, and additional population does not mean additional supplies.  If a Circle is supplied monthly for 100 adults, and mages have kids, then they have to figure out how to make food for 100 adults meet the new demand.  They should also keep in mind that no one leaves the Circle.  If two mages have a kid who turns out normal, then they have to figure out how to raise a normal kid in a mage enclave on limited supplies.  As such, it would behoove them to institue their own population controls.  If they want to dedicate space to growing supplimental crops, that's fine, but that's on them to decide.

And for the love of sanity, don't be a moron and build a Circle anywhere near a city, much less in one.  That's just the height of stupidity.  Build them in remote, isolated, and inhospitable regions no one would want anything to do with.  Deserts.  Tundra.  High Mountain fastnesses.  Islands out of sight of land.  And, if possible, keep the locations secret.

A normal person's interaction with even the idea of Mages should be "My cousin knew a guy who's neighbor's sister lived in a village where a little girl maybe burned down a barn and vanished the next day."  Mages view of the outside world should be an endless vista devoid of signs of civilization beyond the Circle.

Must admit i am not against the Isolation mindset.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TK514 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

@Master Warden Z

You have to admit blaming all those who have magical powers for the actions of a few Tevinter Magisters simply because they used magic as a means to enter the Golden City and release the Darkspawn threat is awfully generalizing. That's like saying "A few nobles are using their power to rape people. We should kill or castrate all nobles."

I don't blame the Magisters alone.  I blame the Magisters and those they had murder thousands of elves to power the ritual.

I don't seriously believe ten mages personally slaughtered thousands, or personally used up 2/3rds of the lyrium in the Empire at the time.  They were the focus of the ritual, to be sure, but I would be shocked if we were told they were the only ones performing it.

As for the current mage problem, I don't think killing all mages is necessary.  I, personally, am pro-Circle and, to an extent,  anti-'Whatever the BSN Pro-Mage population thinks is a good idea'.  I think a well run Circle, with as much freedom as could be expected from an effective total quarantine program, would be ideal.  The Tranquil and the Templars would conduct any and all business with the outside world on behalf of the Mages, and there would be a zero tolerance policy on people attempting to break out or break in.  The only time Mages would interact with the outside populace even close to directly would be during times of extreme crisis.

Of course, I also think the policy of 'put them in whatever building we have handy, regardless of where it is or what it was originally for' is absurd.  Mages Circles should be specifically designed and built with their inhabitants in mind.  They should have interior courtyards where mages can be outdoors.  They should have open spaces and naturally well-lit rooms.  They should have places for plants and greenery, and as importantly, there should be places to congregate and to play.  Entertainment is as important to mental health as anything else, and from the limited slices of Circle life we've seen, there don't appear to be many, if any, places dedicated purely to that purpose.  To put in a simpler way, Mage Circles should be less 'big mage building' and more 'enclosed mage village'. 

If they want to have children?  That's fine, but they should understand that the budget for resources is limited, and additional population does not mean additional supplies.  If a Circle is supplied monthly for 100 adults, and mages have kids, then they have to figure out how to make food for 100 adults meet the new demand.  They should also keep in mind that no one leaves the Circle.  If two mages have a kid who turns out normal, then they have to figure out how to raise a normal kid in a mage enclave on limited supplies.  As such, it would behoove them to institue their own population controls.  If they want to dedicate space to growing supplimental crops, that's fine, but that's on them to decide.

And for the love of sanity, don't be a moron and build a Circle anywhere near a city, much less in one.  That's just the height of stupidity.  Build them in remote, isolated, and inhospitable regions no one would want anything to do with.  Deserts.  Tundra.  High Mountain fastnesses.  Islands out of sight of land.  And, if possible, keep the locations secret.

A normal person's interaction with even the idea of Mages should be "My cousin knew a guy who's neighbor's sister lived in a village where a little girl maybe burned down a barn and vanished the next day."  Mages view of the outside world should be an endless vista devoid of signs of civilization beyond the Circle.

Interesting. While not perfect, this definitely sounds better at least than the current system.

[KC_Prototype]

No, mages are awesome and thet are people as well. Besides, if you could even manage to kill them off, more would be born.

[Uccio]

Mages need to rule over mundanes with Iron Fist. Tevinter 2.0, This Time With Ruthless Power. Teaches dirty peasants to know who are the real masters.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ukki wrote...

Mages need to rule over mundanes with Iron Fist. Tevinter 2.0, This Time With Ruthless Power. Teaches dirty peasants to know who are the real masters.

Do you really want a reason for the Qunari and Thedas to fight side by side?

That thought disgusts me but given 90% of the world opposes said idea well, You might as well take allies where you get them.

._. So the stupid robes united the world...not how they wanted to acheive it, but they did so neverless the less.

It would get any one who isn't a mage really chummy with each other i do believe.

[aTrueFool]

Inprea wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I'm calling bullcrap on your bullcrap.

We have been shown things like mages making magical artifacts, offering healing and aid in war.
You probably think there should be more. Like mages should be making floating cities,ending world hunger and such.
However, what makes you think any of that is even possible?
What makes you think that your view is how the devs see the world of thedas and mages?
In other words, your view on the balance of upsides and downsides and limits of magic may not reflect how TheDas works.

Really? When did we see mages offering healing and aid in war? You make a clame but you don't bother noting any examples. Even then I highly doubt they would have the same influence as the examples of disasters I noted thus it makes magic look far more destructive then beneficial.

I sure didn't see Wynne over in the tints at Ostagar healing the wounded soldiers. Which is pretty strange given that she's one of the circle's main healers. All we see is the mages keeping to their camp. As for the making of magical items. How often do we see those actually benefiting anyone?

What makes me think it's possible for mages to make floating cities? I don't. That's you trying to put words into my mouth.

We see that mages can heal illness and influence plants. The only thing that might be uncertain in what I said is if they can conjure water or not though the creation tree has the conjuring oil slicks and the primal tree inclundes influencing the temperature. So I don't consider conjuring water a large stretch.

If you're going to make a contradictory claim how about noting some actual examples or other supporting evidence that hasn't already been mentioned? Anyone can make groundless statements after all.

You're clearly right those mages weren't there to help they just like to vacation in old ruins. Total coincidence

[dragonflight288]

TK514 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

@Master Warden Z

You have to admit blaming all those who have magical powers for the actions of a few Tevinter Magisters simply because they used magic as a means to enter the Golden City and release the Darkspawn threat is awfully generalizing. That's like saying "A few nobles are using their power to rape people. We should kill or castrate all nobles."

I don't blame the Magisters alone.  I blame the Magisters and those they had murder thousands of elves to power the ritual.

I don't seriously believe ten mages personally slaughtered thousands, or personally used up 2/3rds of the lyrium in the Empire at the time.  They were the focus of the ritual, to be sure, but I would be shocked if we were told they were the only ones performing it.

As for the current mage problem, I don't think killing all mages is necessary.  I, personally, am pro-Circle and, to an extent,  anti-'Whatever the BSN Pro-Mage population thinks is a good idea'.  I think a well run Circle, with as much freedom as could be expected from an effective total quarantine program, would be ideal.  The Tranquil and the Templars would conduct any and all business with the outside world on behalf of the Mages, and there would be a zero tolerance policy on people attempting to break out or break in.  The only time Mages would interact with the outside populace even close to directly would be during times of extreme crisis.

Of course, I also think the policy of 'put them in whatever building we have handy, regardless of where it is or what it was originally for' is absurd.  Mages Circles should be specifically designed and built with their inhabitants in mind.  They should have interior courtyards where mages can be outdoors.  They should have open spaces and naturally well-lit rooms.  They should have places for plants and greenery, and as importantly, there should be places to congregate and to play.  Entertainment is as important to mental health as anything else, and from the limited slices of Circle life we've seen, there don't appear to be many, if any, places dedicated purely to that purpose.  To put in a simpler way, Mage Circles should be less 'big mage building' and more 'enclosed mage village'. 

If they want to have children?  That's fine, but they should understand that the budget for resources is limited, and additional population does not mean additional supplies.  If a Circle is supplied monthly for 100 adults, and mages have kids, then they have to figure out how to make food for 100 adults meet the new demand.  They should also keep in mind that no one leaves the Circle.  If two mages have a kid who turns out normal, then they have to figure out how to raise a normal kid in a mage enclave on limited supplies.  As such, it would behoove them to institue their own population controls.  If they want to dedicate space to growing supplimental crops, that's fine, but that's on them to decide.

And for the love of sanity, don't be a moron and build a Circle anywhere near a city, much less in one.  That's just the height of stupidity.  Build them in remote, isolated, and inhospitable regions no one would want anything to do with.  Deserts.  Tundra.  High Mountain fastnesses.  Islands out of sight of land.  And, if possible, keep the locations secret.

A normal person's interaction with even the idea of Mages should be "My cousin knew a guy who's neighbor's sister lived in a village where a little girl maybe burned down a barn and vanished the next day."  Mages view of the outside world should be an endless vista devoid of signs of civilization beyond the Circle.

Seems like an interesting idea. I do have a few areas of conern with this system if you would like to address them. 

1. You have the templars and the tranquil doing business on behalf of the Circle. While this looks good on paper, what's stopping said templars from simply abusing their power over mages as is done frequently in the current system? If the mages are kept in a completely secret and isolated community, so that people who lose their children, possibly taken from their arms in chains as was the case with Anders and his mother, who would enforce it?

It's sort of reminds me of what was announced of the Purge in Final Fantasy XIII. Take everyone from this one section and promise to take them to Pulse where they could live freely, but the powers that be decided not to waste the resources and simply killed them in a mass slaughter.

I'm not saying the templars will do this, but given the fanatical views of the templars, this is something that must be addressed. 

2. Supplies. 

By positioning the Circle in such remote areas, you are in essence making them almost completely reliant on supply caravans. An observant bandit camp would notice wagons constantly coming and going, and would likely hit them. If you supply a Circle for 100 adults, but the wagon is raided on the way, then it's lost supplies and those mages go without, and probably will starve. 

You would need to have a heavily armed caravan, and that would pretty much completely destroy the very concept of a secret location for a Circle, and the supply train can't be too long otherwise you run the risk of losing said supplies and the Circle never gets them. 

3. When nobles/royalty need mages.

Whether a noble needs a mage for his arling or whatever it's called for banns, or when the country needs mages in the event of war, to whom do they appeal and how many mages are allowed to leave in order to serve? And who ultimately makes the call?

4. Runaways. 

Like it or hate it, one of the most effective ways to have something happen is to tell people not to do it, and this is especially true with rebellious teenagers. It might be especially true for mages who have been locked up their whole lives and are pretty much told they can't leave the Circle they're housed in. Ever. 

How would you handle mages who run away to return to their families or among the elven ones, those who wish to join the Dalish? Would you simply track them and kill them as examples or would you foce them back? Would you psychologically torture them by putting them in isolation upon their return, or simply say "don't do it again"?

[Uccio]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Mages need to rule over mundanes with Iron Fist. Tevinter 2.0, This Time With Ruthless Power. Teaches dirty peasants to know who are the real masters.

Do you really want a reason for the Qunari and Thedas to fight side by side?

That thought disgusts me but given 90% of the world opposes said idea well, You might as well take allies where you get them.

._. So the stupid robes united the world...not how they wanted to acheive it, but they did so neverless the less.

It would get any one who isn't a mage really chummy with each other i do believe.

Thedas will not ever "unite/fight side by side" with Qunari unless Qunari conquer all of Thedas. Qunari care nothing about anyone, just their precious Qun. Thedas as whole either surrenders or dies. Anyone teaming up with qun against Tevinter would be bleeding madman. under Tevinter rule everyone will be happy though, no more chantry bull to eat.

Tevinter and mages are the only thing keeping qunari under check. Quardians of freedom for Thedas.

Modifié par Ukki, 09 février 2014 - 01:42 .

[mikeymoonshine]

Ukki wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Mages need to rule over mundanes with Iron Fist. Tevinter 2.0, This Time With Ruthless Power. Teaches dirty peasants to know who are the real masters.

Do you really want a reason for the Qunari and Thedas to fight side by side?

That thought disgusts me but given 90% of the world opposes said idea well, You might as well take allies where you get them.

._. So the stupid robes united the world...not how they wanted to acheive it, but they did so neverless the less.

It would get any one who isn't a mage really chummy with each other i do believe.

Thedas will not ever "unite/fight side by side" with Qunari unless Qunari conquer all of Thedas. Qunari care nothing about anyone, just their precious Qun. Thedas as whole either surrenders or dies. Anyone teaming up with qun against Tevinter would be bleeding madman. under Tevinter rule everyone will be happy though, no more chantry bull to eat.

Tevinter and mages are the only thing keeping qunari under check. Quardians of freedom for Thedas.

While I agree that a qunari/rest of thedas is very unlikely but the Qunari do care about people. They are like Jehovah's witnesses with an army. They don't want to kill people unless they have to, they feel that those who do not follow the Qun are fighting against their own nature and against the world so they must be converted for the good of everyone. 

[DKJaigen]

AutumnWitch wrote...

I was just thinking. Mages in DA really do represent a horrible, horrible risk to "humanity" (Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Qunari, etc). And so if their existence REALLY was as dangerous as they say in DA the fact is, society would have instituted a policy of either killing them ALL or making them ALL tranquil as soon as it was discovered they had magic. This would have been deemed acceptable out of necessity despite moral concerns.

I would also suspect, in a Medieval/Dark Age mentality that exists in Thedas that most likely the bloodlines would soon come to an end because if indeed all Mages were killed or made tranquil the likelihood of them reproducing would be very low and eventually they would die off. And lets face, if we use the way humans act in real life as a model, they would certainly have a stigma about them so this would also help stop the bloodlines.

I would also argue because of this the Tevinter Imperium probably would have never existed. Especially if you keep in mind that in Thedas there seems to be (from what we have seen) a low ratio of Mages to non-mages. So as a "numbers game" and the instinctive urge to destroy what threatens us, the Imperium would have been unlikely.

People in general are very, very quick to kill off dangerous competitors. Just look at what we have done on Earth to wolves, tigers etc. There is even a widely supported theory in anthropology that way back in our ancestry there were several other humanoid species that arose about the same time as homosapians (Neanderthals for example) that we literally killed off because they were competition for the same resources and they were also a physical threat to us. And this all happened back in the Stone Age, centuries or millennia before the Medieval Age (about the Age that DA takes place in).

So it seems to me, that it's human nature to destroy something that threatens us. And from the rhetoric we get in DA and from Gaider himself, a huge majority of the population intensely fears and hates the Mages. So by all rights, all things being sort of equal, Mages should have disappeared centuries ago.

However they haven't and that's most likely because "magic" even given the dangerous nature of those who have it, must also provide something that makes it just that much too valuable to completely wipe out entirely.

So somewhere along the line, those with power have decided that although exterminating all Mages might be good on one hand, the benefit they get from Mages/Magic is just enough to keep it going. And indeed, an argument could be made that the Mage Circles are an attempt to control and limit Magic and at the same time minimizing its danger. I guess sort of like how many people IRL view nuclear energy. Its horribly, terrifyingly dangerous but if we regulate it and limit what we do with (as well as take as many safety precautions as possible) its worth keeping.

Now if we can accept that magic is a "necessary evil" in Thedas then how in the world do we regulate it so that things like the Mage-Templar war /Veal Tear don't continue to happen?

If theory, the Mage Circle model (and others) look good on paper but in reality people abuse power on both sides and there isn't anyway we can fix that problem. Any time we give that much power and control to one group of people over another, abuse will occur which will always lead to revolts and revolutions.

So is the ONLY solution to this, the actual complete extermination of Mages across the board? Our do we have to accept that there is always going to be abuse and danger on both sides and try to work to a solution that minimizes the problems?

Is there an actual way in Thedas for Mages to exist in the world while living a quality of life that is equivalent to those of non-mages, therefore minimizing the threat of revolution? Can people co-exist within an uneasy peace or is this just a pipe dream that can never happen?

You somehow created a we vs them vision thats not productive. its the same idiotic visions that templars seem to be holding. simply humans will not survive using magic. killing the mages simply leaves you more vunrable to other forms of magic

[Master Warder Z_]

Ukki wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Mages need to rule over mundanes with Iron Fist. Tevinter 2.0, This Time With Ruthless Power. Teaches dirty peasants to know who are the real masters.

Do you really want a reason for the Qunari and Thedas to fight side by side?

That thought disgusts me but given 90% of the world opposes said idea well, You might as well take allies where you get them.

._. So the stupid robes united the world...not how they wanted to acheive it, but they did so neverless the less.

It would get any one who isn't a mage really chummy with each other i do believe.

Thedas will not ever "unite/fight side by side" with Qunari unless Qunari conquer all of Thedas. Qunari care nothing about anyone, just their precious Qun. Thedas as whole either surrenders or dies. Anyone teaming up with qun against Tevinter would be bleeding madman. under Tevinter rule everyone will be happy though, no more chantry bull to eat.

Tevinter and mages are the only thing keeping qunari under check. Quardians of freedom for Thedas.

I am sure the horrorific war they started and lost also has nothing to do with it.

 

Honestly i give the Imperium props for continuing the conflict when the rest of Thedas threw in the towel but that said?

Fighting over one Island for centuries doesn't mean you are holding back the Qunari, It means you are locked in a conflict over an island.

[Toasted Llama]

I like TK514's idea, though I don't think the circles should be kept secret.

Circles should be like every other non-mage people city, with adjustments suited to educate and protect mages.

Non-mage people villages should be like every other Circle, with adjustments suited to create jobs for and protect non-mage people.

It shouldn't be a punishment to be a mage, but they need to be educated in the dangers their gift holds. If they understand and see the dangers their gifts hold, it should be much less of a problem to move them from one village to another. If they don't understand the dangers their gifts holds after continuous education, then they MUST be killed. There is no other solution.

Then again, this idea probably only fits in an utopia where nobody abuses their power.


On the other hand though; in our own real world (and the non-mage people world of Thedas) power is being abused just as much and we're doing just fine. Sometimes I think the mages just have to suck it up and deal with it, just like someone who was born different has no other option but to deal with the potential bullying. It's harsh and I hate it too, but this is not an Utopia and there are no other options.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TK514 wrote...

If they want to have children?  That's fine, but they should understand that the budget for resources is limited, and additional population does not mean additional supplies.  If a Circle is supplied monthly for 100 adults, and mages have kids, then they have to figure out how to make food for 100 adults meet the new demand.  They should also keep in mind that no one leaves the Circle.  If two mages have a kid who turns out normal, then they have to figure out how to raise a normal kid in a mage enclave on limited supplies.  As such, it would behoove them to institue their own population controls.  If they want to dedicate space to growing supplimental crops, that's fine, but that's on them to decide.

Why?

This is even more strict than the normal circle.

At least mages get to go outside and to the town occasionaly

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

Then by that logic we should destroy all guns today because it has caused billions of people to die,the reason that won't happen is because it's stupid.Magic is like guns today,let the right people wield it and good things can happen...let the crazies/evil people do the same thing and bad things will happen

Guns don't whisper to you in your dreams, trying to corrupt you.
Guns also can't take over your mind and body.
Guns aren't something you have on your person 24/7.
You can also take away someones guns easily.

There is a really big difference between magic and guns

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Toasted Llama wrote...
On the other hand though; in our own real world (and the non-mage people world of Thedas) power is being abused just as much and we're doing just fine. Sometimes I think the mages just have to suck it up and deal with it, just like someone who was born different has no other option but to deal with the potential bullying. It's harsh and I hate it too, but this is not an Utopia and there are no other options.

That's a terrible mindset. Just because things are bad doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for something better. That's the only way society has advanced as far as it had.

[KaiserShep]

Toasted Llama wrote...


On the other hand though; in our own real world (and the non-mage people world of Thedas) power is being abused just as much and we're doing just fine. Sometimes I think the mages just have to suck it up and deal with it, just like someone who was born different has no other option but to deal with the potential bullying. It's harsh and I hate it too, but this is not an Utopia and there are no other options.

Oh, Civil Rights activists would certainly eat this up for sure. Who determines whether or not someone has an option? The bully? The person of privilege?

Modifié par KaiserShep, 10 février 2014 - 12:40 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

fhs33721 wrote...

2. Okay fair point. Still even if you kill all mages, those sealed demons will still continue to cause trouble for thedas since they do not miraciously dissapear.
3. Well my point still stands. Demons invded the estate without being summoned by a mage. Red lyrium might be the cause for that or as Mage-Hawke can commented it might have been due to the torture Bartrand inflicted on his mercenaries and servants. Either way demons were able to cross the veil without mages.
4. There was apparently a battle with darkspawn going on before the demon possesed the dwarf so it is likely that the veil just teared due to bloodshed.
5. While they had good reltionships with dwarves I doubt that Tevinter magisters were hanging around in every dwarf outpost and ripped the veil apart for fun. It could also have something to do with red lyrium. I actually agree with you on red lyrium definitely being dangerous and needing to be removed.
6. I think it largely depends on how powerful the demon is to begin with. A weak little demon of wrath can posess a mage and it will still be no more threat than a pack of wild wolves for example. A powerful pride or desire abomination are indeed a very big threat. The same way there are Shadows and walking corpses who are far more powerful than the ordinary one. So while yes, abominations are on average more dangerous that is not a universal truth. It depends on the demon.

On an unrelated note:
I still think claims about the danger of an abomination are blown out of proportion. So they can lay waste to an entire village full of peasants, before someone takes them out? Wow impressing. A group of about twenty heavyly armoured knights could pull that one off.
Seriously is there the mention of any abomination that actually made it past destroying the unprepeared place were it was summoned before getting stopped? Because I can't remember if we heard of anything like that.

I mean so far the only unstoppable eldritch abomination of death and destruction I've seen in the Dragon Age Unsiverse were our player-charcters.
I mean seriously they can slaughter trough hundreds of warriors, demons and Darkspawn without getting as much as scratch. It's truly scary.

1.Yep they still will be there but avoiding that there won't by abomnations any more still we have benefit because as long mages are alive they will seal demons or summon them to thedas without them we will left only with demons that were already sealed like it or not killing mages is mostly alone profit for peoples in theadas... 
2.Well avoiding that red lyrium isn't widely available (at least wasn't before) it is unique situation red lyrium like mages need to be destroyed for same reasons... 
3.Don't know i didn't read book so i will belive in that what you said so as far we have 2 demons in thedas caused by non-mages and hundreds by mages...
4.That was rather in case judging that pride demon was sealed on deep roads that obvious that blood mage was around another part is that tevinter or at least some magisters were helping dwarves with creating second army of golems which failed horrible and now we will have to deal with army of harvesters thanks to mages we have another disaster caused by them...
5.It doesn't matter i think that weaker abomnations could match reaver when desire abomnations or pride abomnations would crush reaver.Another matter is that abomnations have desire to destroy world (or control it by destroying:whistle:) when reavers are hostile only for surroundings...

About abomnations connor , circle tower and i want mention that connor was only child possesed by desire demon and he slained entire castle and village without any problem until chuck norr... sorry the warden show up and kill him and his small army before it had opportunity to make undead army and found another mages to create another abominations... so it is only for protagonist easy kill abomnation...

[mikeymoonshine]

Toasted Llama wrote...

On the other hand though; in our own real world (and the non-mage people world of Thedas) power is being abused just as much and we're doing just fine. Sometimes I think the mages just have to suck it up and deal with it, just like someone who was born different has no other option but to deal with the potential bullying. It's harsh and I hate it too, but this is not an Utopia and there are no other options.

 what the hell? 

[Lotion Soronarr]

TK514's idea for a Circle is not bad, but in some ways it's worse.

First of all, the NO ONE LEAVES, EVER policy. No. The same system of proven, trusted mages being allowed to go out of the Circle occasionally should remain.
A bigger, more open Circle would be nice - ideally a walled-off village. Of course, that presents the problem of building the entire village and the big-ass wall around it.
I think there's a reason why the Circle we've seen so far have been all in older re-purposed buildings. It's simpler and it makes the templars job easier.

However, that isn't necessarily better.

[KaiserShep]

I'm curious as to how the templars would deal with normal people that wish to explore outside of the Circle once they're of age. There's no sound argument against it other than there being a policy that these Circles be kept secret, but that's not a method that would work for very long. The templars would have to be the ones to manage population control as well as keeping any non-magical progeny from escaping the prison.

[Master Warder Z_]

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm curious as to how the templars would deal with normal people that wish to explore outside of the Circle once they're of age. There's no sound argument against it other than there being a policy that these Circles be kept secret, but that's not a method that would work for very long. The templars would have to be the ones to manage population control as well as keeping any non-magical progeny from escaping the prison.

Most Circles have-Had "Normal" Humans living among them preforming some task or another, Whether they were preforming tasks for the Chantry, Circle or Templars they were given duties if they were of the staff there.

So i suppose they would be kept on for services in that system as well, But again given resource requirements that may ultimately not be for the best but we shall see.

[Master Warder Z_]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TK514's idea for a Circle is not bad, but in some ways it's worse.

First of all, the NO ONE LEAVES, EVER policy. No. The same system of proven, trusted mages being allowed to go out of the Circle occasionally should remain.
A bigger, more open Circle would be nice - ideally a walled-off village. Of course, that presents the problem of building the entire village and the big-ass wall around it.
I think there's a reason why the Circle we've seen so far have been all in older re-purposed buildings. It's simpler and it makes the templars job easier.

However, that isn't necessarily better.

A Big wall certainly makes their job easier as well  

[Lotion Soronarr]

And despite being stuck in large stone buildings with only one entrance/exit, mages still manage to escape.

A walled off community just gives you a bigger area to watch over.