645 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

Sorry, folks. I didn't expect to get much notice, and certainly didn't intend to leave you all hanging.

Just want to address Lotion's last post while it's fresh in my mind:

I imagine most escapes happen outside the building, either during outside exercise time (Anders), or during travel to/from some other locale. I doubt many are like Jowan's daring 'run out the front door, leaving a trail of blood and urine' technique.

Frankly, folks, I don't have all the answers to the good questions that have been asked. It was very much a rough draft idea, and could definitely use refinement in all areas. I invite you, obviously, to add your own refinements. Looking back, I don't necessarily agree with everything I wrote, so take it for what it's worth. The general idea was to build Mage enclaves that were far from civilization yet maintained as high a quality of life as possible so that mages would be isolated, serving the Circle purpose of protecting normals and mages through segregation, and yet fulfilled. Ideally, and I recognize this is pie in the sky, these would be facilities Mages wouldn't WANT to leave. The harsh restrictions on supplies and population are because I can't imagine these enclaves working if anyone can have a baby. You'd quickly outgrow the facilities. So while I definitely want mages to be able to have relationships, I don't want them having kids unless the whole community agrees and is willing to suffer another mouth to feed on limited resources.

The reason the Templars and Tranquil are the agents of the Mage Enclaves ties into the indoctrination aspect of 'you can't miss what you don't know'. While obviously, some mages will remember the outside world, removing the temptation would be a big aspect of total quarantine.

I think the Zero Tolerance policy probably needs revision. It is exactly as harsh as it sounds. If a mage attempts to escape, or escapes and is caught, then they would have been returned and publicly executed. No exceptions. No 'extenuating circumstances'. No 'oh, he's just a child, forgive him his youthful exuberance'. I think I saw it as a last line of defense against defections. Fear as the final ward when fulfillment failed. It seems counterproductive in retrospect, but I don't have a good alternative. I think solitary and house arrest are laughable and ineffective for a population that already has what amounts to a life sentence and forced community. I welcome suggestions.

I think someone asked about Banns and Nobles requesting Mages for their fiefdoms. The answer to that would be a polite but unambiguous 'No'. Monarchs might be able to request Mage support. Threats to the continent, like Darkspawn and the Qunari, would warrant Mage support. Local issues would have to work themselves out, unless of course the aforementioned Monarch could convince the Circle that it was a threat to Thedas as a whole. The most magical support any given noble could expect would be a fine selection of magical items, available at negotiable prices.

The supply issue: Obviously you'd have stockpiles on site. Supplies wouldn't arrive a month at a time, with no margin for error, and you would, barring absolute catastrophe, always have several months worth on hand for distribution. They would simply be distributed a month at a time. As for banditry, if bandits aren't deterred by highly trained and heavily armed Templar escort, they're free to throw their lives away trying to highjack the shipment. I imagine it's pretty much the same thing that prevents bandits from attacking supply trains to remote Circles like the one in Ferelden now.

And I think I'll stop there. I could go on about how I envision the Templar Order would need to be reformed, and why I think the Chantry will continue to be the only organization in Thedas capable of funding and maintaining any system of Mage segregation, but eh. Feel free to embellish, alter, mangle, whatever the original idea. My guiding concepts were
a place were Mages were completely isolated, because I do think Mages represent a clear and unpredictable threat to the rest of Thedas, and vice versa, yet led lives fulfilling enough that they would have minimal to no desire to leave.

[Inprea]

TK514 wrote...

Sorry, folks. I didn't expect to get much notice, and certainly didn't intend to leave you all hanging.

Just want to address Lotion's last post while it's fresh in my mind:

I imagine most escapes happen outside the building, either during outside exercise time (Anders), or during travel to/from some other locale. I doubt many are like Jowan's daring 'run out the front door, leaving a trail of blood and urine' technique.

Frankly, folks, I don't have all the answers to the good questions that have been asked. It was very much a rough draft idea, and could definitely use refinement in all areas. I invite you, obviously, to add your own refinements. Looking back, I don't necessarily agree with everything I wrote, so take it for what it's worth. The general idea was to build Mage enclaves that were far from civilization yet maintained as high a quality of life as possible so that mages would be isolated, serving the Circle purpose of protecting normals and mages through segregation, and yet fulfilled. Ideally, and I recognize this is pie in the sky, these would be facilities Mages wouldn't WANT to leave. The harsh restrictions on supplies and population are because I can't imagine these enclaves working if anyone can have a baby. You'd quickly outgrow the facilities. So while I definitely want mages to be able to have relationships, I don't want them having kids unless the whole community agrees and is willing to suffer another mouth to feed on limited resources.

The reason the Templars and Tranquil are the agents of the Mage Enclaves ties into the indoctrination aspect of 'you can't miss what you don't know'. While obviously, some mages will remember the outside world, removing the temptation would be a big aspect of total quarantine.

I think the Zero Tolerance policy probably needs revision. It is exactly as harsh as it sounds. If a mage attempts to escape, or escapes and is caught, then they would have been returned and publicly executed. No exceptions. No 'extenuating circumstances'. No 'oh, he's just a child, forgive him his youthful exuberance'. I think I saw it as a last line of defense against defections. Fear as the final ward when fulfillment failed. It seems counterproductive in retrospect, but I don't have a good alternative. I think solitary and house arrest are laughable and ineffective for a population that already has what amounts to a life sentence and forced community. I welcome suggestions.

I think someone asked about Banns and Nobles requesting Mages for their fiefdoms. The answer to that would be a polite but unambiguous 'No'. Monarchs might be able to request Mage support. Threats to the continent, like Darkspawn and the Qunari, would warrant Mage support. Local issues would have to work themselves out, unless of course the aforementioned Monarch could convince the Circle that it was a threat to Thedas as a whole. The most magical support any given noble could expect would be a fine selection of magical items, available at negotiable prices.

The supply issue: Obviously you'd have stockpiles on site. Supplies wouldn't arrive a month at a time, with no margin for error, and you would, barring absolute catastrophe, always have several months worth on hand for distribution. They would simply be distributed a month at a time. As for banditry, if bandits aren't deterred by highly trained and heavily armed Templar escort, they're free to throw their lives away trying to highjack the shipment. I imagine it's pretty much the same thing that prevents bandits from attacking supply trains to remote Circles like the one in Ferelden now.

And I think I'll stop there. I could go on about how I envision the Templar Order would need to be reformed, and why I think the Chantry will continue to be the only organization in Thedas capable of funding and maintaining any system of Mage segregation, but eh. Feel free to embellish, alter, mangle, whatever the original idea. My guiding concepts were
a place were Mages were completely isolated, because I do think Mages represent a clear and unpredictable threat to the rest of Thedas, and vice versa, yet led lives fulfilling enough that they would have minimal to no desire to leave.

Interesting but to me it's still people being imprisoned in a nation that doesn't want them just because of how they were born. I'm still very much an isolationist. If people don't want mages walking around their streets that's fine. The circle system or even one like yours wouldn't bother me if there was one exception. The mages could choose to exile themselves to a nation that welcomes free mages, an island that no nation claimed or a place far enough away from civilization.

Much like exiles of past returning would mean death if you're caught. Well unless the government itself requested the mages return, signed off on it and provided an escort.

There is at least one nation in Thedas that is willing to accept the danger a mage can pose and to them the templars are more an invading army forcing their culture on a people that don't want it. Many of the methods used to answer the mage question seem to ignore peoples right to self determination.

[Hellion Rex]

Primarily, I believe that my biggest issue with the system lies within the Seeker Order. To be blunt, they need to get their act together. I don't know how long Lambert was in charge as Lord Seeker, but the past few decades have been an absolute travesty with Mage-Templar relations, which is the Seeker Order's job. Tighter Seeker vigilance over Templar abuses within the Circles might have well prevented this conflict, or at least diminished it.

[Mirrman70]

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

[Master Warder Z_]

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

[dragonflight288]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

But if you go too far, you also take away their reason to care, about others and about themselves and soon you have sociopaths with magical powers in their hands and little to no empathy as they had not been given a reason to have it.

There is a line that must be acknowledged. 

[Banxey]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

Wasn't he not made Lord Seeker until at least 12 years after The Calling incident? He was a poor choice for the office though, most likely intentionally chosen to fan the flames by the same group Petrice was allied with. There is very little evidence to suggest he would ever be impartial.

Ignoring that, if he had his hands full with the rebellion it was well deserved. There was quite a lot of time during which he could have intervened but didn't. And as far as the mages of Kirkwall are concerned, they have a reason for being crazy. You can't blame them all for being so extreme if you read the codices on The Enigma of Kirkwall. If the Lord Seeker was actually interested in preventing things from happening, instead of sating his desire to keep mages subservient he might have actually been useful.

Modifié par Banxey2, 12 février 2014 - 09:44 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

But if you go too far, you also take away their reason to care, about others and about themselves and soon you have sociopaths with magical powers in their hands and little to no empathy as they had not been given a reason to have it.

There is a line that must be acknowledged. 

yeah now compare thrask so nice and dead to lambert harsh and successful (well almost as divine stupidity pushed her to let abomnations roam free)

my ass if there is way to control mages only competent peoples like lambert would achieve it... (yet such moorons like divine may be big obstacle in controling them)

[PinkysPain]

Vestua wrote...
Yep, either destroy the Fade somehow or find a way to exterminate all the demons there to prevent them from possesing mages.

Just strengthen the veil to the point where posession becomes almost impossible (and magobabble some solutions for the muggles to protect themselves against and detect blood magic). Of course the grim derp status quo lovers would scream bloody murder ... escapist fantasy in their "realistic" dystopia, can't have that.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 11 février 2014 - 10:45 .

[Inprea]

PinkysPain wrote...

Vestua wrote...
Yep, either destroy the Fade somehow or find a way to exterminate all the demons there to prevent them from possesing mages.

Just strengthen the veil to the point where posession becomes almost impossible (and magobabble some solutions for the muggles to protect themselves against and detect blood magic). Of course the grim derp status quo lovers would scream bloody murder ... escapist fantasy in their "realistic" dystopia, can't have that.

If it could be done I can't help but think there would be one major concern. What if in order to strengthen the fade sufficiently to insure a mage couldn't be posessed you had to make it so strong that mundanes would essentially be cut off from the fade? This would result in all nonmages being made tranquil except perhaps the dwarfs.

[Veruin]

PinkysPain wrote...

Vestua wrote...
Yep, either destroy the Fade somehow or find a way to exterminate all the demons there to prevent them from possesing mages.

Just strengthen the veil to the point where posession becomes almost impossible (and magobabble some solutions for the muggles to protect themselves against and detect blood magic). Of course the grim derp status quo lovers would scream bloody murder ... escapist fantasy in their "realistic" dystopia, can't have that.

So, how does strengthing the veil prevent possessions? Connor was possessed and his demon never left the fade.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Veruin wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...

Vestua wrote...
Yep, either destroy the Fade somehow or find a way to exterminate all the demons there to prevent them from possesing mages.

Just strengthen the veil to the point where posession becomes almost impossible (and magobabble some solutions for the muggles to protect themselves against and detect blood magic). Of course the grim derp status quo lovers would scream bloody murder ... escapist fantasy in their "realistic" dystopia, can't have that.

So, how does strengthing the veil prevent possessions? Connor was possessed and his demon never left the fade.

Technically most possession have the demon still in the Fade. The abomination is just a puppet for them to experience the World of the Living through. As for strengthening the Veil, it doesn't prevent possessions but makes it much harder for each side to connect to the other.

[TK514]

I definitely agree with eluvianix. Regardless of why, the Seekers as an organization have not been adequately fulfilling their duties as Internal Affairs for the Templars. Even if every other Circle was a Mage paradise, they had at least ten years to investigate and act in Kirkwall.

Ultimately, I think this is a necessary change to both Orders. The Seekers shouldn't be acting as Templars. The two organizations should have separate chains of command until you get to the Divine, and the Seekers should focus entirely on the Templar Order. The Lord Seeker should have a peer who is in charge of the Templars, rather than being in charge of both organizations, because there is a clear conflict of interest.

I think many, not all, of the problems we've seen are a result of this conflict of interest.

[dragonflight288]

TK514 wrote...

I definitely agree with eluvianix. Regardless of why, the Seekers as an organization have not been adequately fulfilling their duties as Internal Affairs for the Templars. Even if every other Circle was a Mage paradise, they had at least ten years to investigate and act in Kirkwall.

Ultimately, I think this is a necessary change to both Orders. The Seekers shouldn't be acting as Templars. The two organizations should have separate chains of command until you get to the Divine, and the Seekers should focus entirely on the Templar Order. The Lord Seeker should have a peer who is in charge of the Templars, rather than being in charge of both organizations, because there is a clear conflict of interest.

I think many, not all, of the problems we've seen are a result of this conflict of interest.

Actually, there is a peer who is in charge of the templars. He is called the Knight-Vigilant. Thing is, Lambert fired him and took over the position himself in Asunder. 

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

But if you go too far, you also take away their reason to care, about others and about themselves and soon you have sociopaths with magical powers in their hands and little to no empathy as they had not been given a reason to have it.

There is a line that must be acknowledged. 

yeah now compare thrask so nice and dead to lambert harsh and successful (well almost as divine stupidity pushed her to let abomnations roam free)

my ass if there is way to control mages only competent peoples like lambert would achieve it... (yet such moorons like divine may be big obstacle in controling them)

I never mentioned Thrask, and Lambert didn't stop conflict, he helped create a massive international war. 

I call that a total and utter failure.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 12 février 2014 - 03:23 .

[Master Warder Z_]

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

But if you go too far, you also take away their reason to care, about others and about themselves and soon you have sociopaths with magical powers in their hands and little to no empathy as they had not been given a reason to have it.

There is a line that must be acknowledged. 

yeah now compare thrask so nice and dead to lambert harsh and successful (well almost as divine stupidity pushed her to let abomnations roam free)

my ass if there is way to control mages only competent peoples like lambert would achieve it... (yet such moorons like divine may be big obstacle in controling them)

I never mentioned Thrask, and Lambert didn't stop conflict, he helped create a massive internation war. 

I call that a total and utter failure.

Erm no that would be Fiona.

But i do agree he failed in his initial duty to protect mankind from magic.

He recitified it quickly enough though and assembled the templars under a single banner for the first time since the days of the inquistion though.

[dragonflight288]

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

But if you go too far, you also take away their reason to care, about others and about themselves and soon you have sociopaths with magical powers in their hands and little to no empathy as they had not been given a reason to have it.

There is a line that must be acknowledged. 

yeah now compare thrask so nice and dead to lambert harsh and successful (well almost as divine stupidity pushed her to let abomnations roam free)

my ass if there is way to control mages only competent peoples like lambert would achieve it... (yet such moorons like divine may be big obstacle in controling them)

I never mentioned Thrask, and Lambert didn't stop conflict, he helped create a massive internation war. 

I call that a total and utter failure.

Erm no that would be Fiona.

But i do agree he failed in his initial duty to protect mankind from magic.

He recitified it quickly enough though and assembled the templars under a single banner for the first time since the days of the inquistion though.

Fiona wouldn't have been successful if Lambert hadn't intervened and announce that the Divine's authority was no longer applicable to him. He specifically said that at the meeting. And with wynne's death and most of the First Enchanters dead as a result of his actions, no one was around who would've talked Fiona down. 

Everyone in the novel says that Wynne could've convinced the others to vote against it, and had done so successfully twice before. That changed as a direct result of Lamberts actions. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uhm.. Lambert didn't MAKE WYnne sacrifice her life for Evangeline... So it would be indirectly caused by Lambert's actions...

[Master Warder Z_]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Mirrman70 wrote...

Lambert didn't like mages... that's why he did nothing.

I wouldn't agrue the point but i also wouldn't judge him harshly for given what he had to work with.

Ulred's Revolt, The Kirkwall Rebellion, The Calling Incident ; Decades prior to the outbreak of war, to scant months before he had his hands full managing the mages of White Thedas. Their constant attempts at rebellion, their stupidity and the results of such truely couldn't have made his job easier.

And he wasn't alone considering the Templars and Seekers both exist to manage and protect the circles and thus the common folk of the realm from the mages and the mages from themselves and the common folk.

Point being when a child is being Petulant you discipline it; You don't coddle it.

But if you go too far, you also take away their reason to care, about others and about themselves and soon you have sociopaths with magical powers in their hands and little to no empathy as they had not been given a reason to have it.

There is a line that must be acknowledged. 

yeah now compare thrask so nice and dead to lambert harsh and successful (well almost as divine stupidity pushed her to let abomnations roam free)

my ass if there is way to control mages only competent peoples like lambert would achieve it... (yet such moorons like divine may be big obstacle in controling them)

I never mentioned Thrask, and Lambert didn't stop conflict, he helped create a massive internation war. 

I call that a total and utter failure.

Erm no that would be Fiona.

But i do agree he failed in his initial duty to protect mankind from magic.

He recitified it quickly enough though and assembled the templars under a single banner for the first time since the days of the inquistion though.

Fiona wouldn't have been successful if Lambert hadn't intervened and announce that the Divine's authority was no longer applicable to him. He specifically said that at the meeting. And with wynne's death and most of the First Enchanters dead as a result of his actions, no one was around who would've talked Fiona down. 

Everyone in the novel says that Wynne could've convinced the others to vote against it, and had done so successfully twice before. That changed as a direct result of Lamberts actions. 

He said it quite plainly that he was done listening to the Divine when it came to this subject, not that he was done with her (that came later) I quoted the very page in Asunder where he strolls into the Conclave just the other day so believe me i know of what i speak.

So Fiona changes the topic to one of sedition, treason and violating the authority of both Templar and Chantry, Fiona's chief toady murders the tranquil and pins it on Enchanter Rhys, And you blame Lambert for reacting in so far as to end the conclave?

That's adorably biased if nothing else.

[Master Warder Z_]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm.. Lambert didn't MAKE WYnne sacrifice her life for Evangeline... So it would be indirectly caused by Lambert's actions...

It's just easier to and more accurate to blame the entire situation on Adrian, Fiona and Rhys.

Sure you can agrue indirectly moving to close the conclave when treason was brought up led to them fighting back, being imprisioned and later freed by the Divine and thus allowing them to declare seperation..

But if it wasn't for any of the parties mentioned by me before...That decision would have never came up anyway.

One was pushing for it, murdered for it, the other was the focal point for the entire agrument and the final one was the reason it passed.


.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm.. Lambert didn't MAKE WYnne sacrifice her life for Evangeline... So it would be indirectly caused by Lambert's actions...

Very well. He is still partially responsible though. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Without a doubt. But placing blame solely at one person, is being wilfully blind. Fiona and Adrian are just as much to blame for the volatile situation as Lambert.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Without a doubt. But placing blame solely at one person, is being wilfully blind. Fiona and Adrian are just as much to blame for the volatile situation as Lambert.

Exactly. I'm tired of all the "The war is solely the mages or Templars fault" things. It takes two to wage war. Both sides caused it through a domino effect.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Without a doubt. But placing blame solely at one person, is being wilfully blind. Fiona and Adrian are just as much to blame for the volatile situation as Lambert.

I agree, and I don't think I ever said he was the sole reason things went south. I think I have always said that he was a contributor, and his failure to try and control the mages without violence added into his own paranoia from his experiences in Tevinter makes him a failure as a Lord-High Seeker. 

He's dedicated, but it's my opinion he spent way too much time trying to be a templar and force the mages to act as he wanted them to and not enough time enforcing the Chantry's rules on the templars, as in the case of Merdith and the templars of Kirkwall. 

[The Elder King]

I agree with Emperor about the blame for the war not being on one person. Fiona, Lambert and Adrian all have their share of responsibility.
And I agree with eluvianix about the Seekers' fault in watching over the templars.

Modifié par hhh89, 12 février 2014 - 04:24 .