49 réponses à ce sujet

[rosey1579]

Hello, this is my first topic, and what better a first topic than one where I get to share my vast knowledge of boss thumping methods. I shall single out difficult battles and some otherwise just required for strategy.
I will tell you what you need in your party and what spells/talents you need. I will also tell you choice methods of beating fights. Most of these are from my own experience, but I must learn to share the limelight, so  a few (VERY VERY VERY FEW) come from other people<_<.
Boss Battle 1: The tower of Ishal Ogre. The trick to this is to have your main character learn poison making. If your main character is a mage, then learn stone fist. If a weapon and shield warrior, shield bash. Use the when the ogre picks someone up. (If you are a rouge, you usually get poison making and Alistair has shield bash). The poison making is for all the acid flasks that you must throw at him, as they do considerable damage to him. Just be sure to run away because it is difficult to run from him.

Boss Battle 2: Sloth Demon. For this you will need 2 mages (NO MORE), and at least one warrior. It is best to train a spirit mage for any boss battles, because then you really cant lose. (Basically up to crushing prison, plus walking bomb and the spirit healer spells and vulnerability hex). Freeze the ogre with a cone of cold, or something, and crushing prison it. (It will still be able to move, but maybe a vulnerability hex would help speed up the damage process.) Then it takes on couple more forms, but you need more or less the same strategy. For the blizzard one, just follow the demon to where he goes to escape his blizzard, or interrupt his spell. You should win soon enough, remember, nothing is stopping you from changing forms.

Boss Battle 3: Uldred. I almost left this out, because I have won this game 8 times and he has never beaten me. Then I saw a forum post, they said they had been at it for 3 goes, their current lasting 15 minutes, and they could not beat him. So I decided to tell you, equip the litany of addralla on all party members (to avoid cooldown) and then wait for any white circles to appear around mages, then use it. After the original abominations are gone, send everyone to attack uldred. You will win in like 3 minutes, provided you have wynne and one other mage.

Boss Battle 4: Zathrian (in the ruins) I really cannot help you if you struggle with this one. Just aim everything at Zathrian. Ignore everything else. Much like the return to ostagar final battle

Boss Battle 5: Witherfang. Okay, so, you will need wynne another mage, a tank and anyone except leliana or zevran. Kill swift runner as quickly as possible with a crushing prison, then pick of a wold or two with a few elemental spells. Aim all your fire on Witherfang and then sort of clean up the rest of the wolves.

Boss Battle 6: Zathrian (in camp). That is easy, just kill him and then pick off the rest.

Boss Battle 7: Brood Mother. Eish! It frightens me to think of millions of genlocks suckling on that thing. Well, I am very happy to say that there is an easy soulution to this. This is the one battle on which I permit you to take Zevran along. First, give everyone you can a bow (except the mages which must be Wynne and one other mage). Don't take leliana unless you are confident she won't die every five seconds. Then set all their behaviour tactics to ranged. Now, go to the back of that room. Most of the floor is covered in weird red stuff, but at the back is some stone sticking out. place ALL your party members on the stone and make sure that they stay there. Now the tentacles can't reach you! Just shoot the broodmother and make  the mages destroy any darkspawn waves. Just remember to stop them attacking the tentacles.

Boss battle 8: Branka. Just attack her like you would any other boss, and when she multiplies, note that the real one has a differnt weapon.

Boss battle 9: Caridin. Try to defeat the yellow ranked golems frist by placing them in a crushing prison, sothat your allied golems can help you throughout this fight. Ignore caridin until the white ranked golems are almost dead. Then concentrate all you've got on caridin.

Boss Battle 10: Gaxkang the unbound. Take along a templar (like alistair)  and bring two mages (wynne being one of them) and a tank. Be sure not to make them all stand in a line. The templar will drain his mana, and maybe mana-clash (spirit) would help. Just avoid the cone of cold with all costs.

Boss battle 11: Revenant phylacteries. They are not worth it, just ignore them.

Boss Battle 12: Archdemon. Summon the mages to help. If you sided with the templars then use the dalish. If you sided with the werewolves use the Golems. If you destroyed the anvil use the dwarves, but seriously, mages are the best. Then ballista it when you can (send a rouge to do that). This battle is too easy for any more cheats, but you can feel free to ask for some.

[rosey1579]

Awww.... Really? This took me forever!

[DarthGizka]

Perhaps people would have shown more interest if you had done only one, but made it worth reading?

Or if you had posted some nice strategies, instead of general advice on how to muddle through?

Somewhere else I read about the trick with casting Inferno, running in to lure your enemies back into it, and then casting Force Field. I just tried it and it is totally awesome. The ogre in RtO just stood in the raging inferno, getting roasted while he was uselessly beating on the force field. Once it was over he was near death, and his minions were all toast.

The exact recipe is (for nightmare solo):
- Virulent Walking Bomb and Paralysis Explosion, in the most convenient order
- Inferno or Storm of the Century centred on the meanest bastard
- once the buggers start moving again, pick a nice spot in the inferno and force-field yourself there
Needless to say, this should be spiced with Fireballs and Hexes to the taste of the cook.

Modifié par DarthGizka, 22 février 2014 - 03:47 .

[DarthGizka]

rosey1579, it looks like you wanted to post a comprehensive guide for taking the sting out boss battles and thus making the game more enjoyable overall. And that is an extremely good idea. I've been enjoying the game much, much more since I found good strategies for most of the nastier battles, whereas formerly I used to dread those parts.

But. After four years there are plenty of comprehensive guides and walkthroughs out there already. However, many of them are fairly superficial and not very helpful, because they only give half-baked recipes instead of offering insights that would allow the reader to build their own strategies or that would enable them to play things by the ear and still breeze through. So the hows and whys tend to be more important than specific whats.

There was one fight that I was always apprehensive about and that I always put off til late in the game, and that was 'Andraste'. Well, not anymore, thanks to force-field tanking.

Recipe for a Dragon Scale a la Force-Field Tanking

Ingredients:

1 Shale with Threaten, Taunt, Hurl and fire crystals
1 Wynne with Heroic Defence and her usual healing spells
1 mage with Glyph of Warding and Force Field
1 lesser health potion
2 lesser lyrium potions
1 round ruin for holding the dragon in place

Shale is perfect for tanking 'Andraste'. Her high HP allow her to absorb quite a bit of punishment, which makes the job of the healer less stressful. She can use Hurl to attack the dragon reliably  while standing still on a Glyph of Warding, whereas most other tanks will have trouble landing blows without moving a lot. And like Barkspawn, Shale cannot get grabbed or chomped.

Her job is simple: Hurl and Taunt, then get force-fielded and regenerate health/stamina. Rinse and repeat.

Wynne's job is to cast Heroic Defence on Shale shortly before the force field wears off, and to regenerate Shale's health/stamina.

The mage's job (could be Wynne as well) is to cast Force Field on Shale whenever the spell is available, and to cast Glyph of Warding for protecting Shale when she is not force-fielded.

All party members except for Shale must stay as far away from the dragon as possible, to avoid drawing threat. They should not attack the dragon before Shale has secured its attention, and then use only low-key ranged attacks like staves and bows. Things like the hexes and the bomb spells are probably a bad idea: for me they always drew the dragon straight to the caster, despite Shale's hard work at building aggro.

In order to lure the dragon into the killing zone, Shale should stand in the opening of the round ruin, slightly inside. The other party members should stand in the small space between the ruin and the high plateau so that the dragon will be drawn straight into the ruin. Once Shale has drawn aggro they can hurry to their final battle stations, close to the corner of the plateau but still in casting range of Shale, with a clear line of sight to the dragon for staff/bow attacks. Stealthed Leliana can go to her final battle position right away without danger of confusing the dragon. The spellcasters should be set to "Ranged" behaviour so that they use their staves without having to be told to.

The Warden will likely get fireballed when the dragon first appears, if Shale is too slow with her first hurl. That's what the health pot is for. The chance of that is low, however, if Shale hurls as soon as the dragon casts a red circle on the ground. A suitably placed Paralysis Explosion reduces that risk further, but is likely not necessary.

It seems that Shale's Hurl always does the same amount of damage to 'Andraste', regardless of crystal type. If you use two fire crystals then the damage is the same but you get some more fire resistance from the set bonus.

I just re-did the fight with a level 13 mage on Nightmare, to see whether the recipe works as described (the earlier fight during which I came up with it was extremely messy). The battle was totally uneventful, and it took about ten minutes. The only consumables used were two lesser lyrium potions, because my mage did some experiments with Paralysis Explosion. Wynne could cast all the spells she needed - Heroic Defence, Rejuvenation and Regeneration - from her natural mana regen.

The same strategy worked well against Kolgrim earlier, which was the first time I fought him outside. Shale, Wynne and Leliana focussed on Kolgrim while my mage nuked the extras.

Modifié par DarthGizka, 23 février 2014 - 01:36 .

[Blazomancer]

^Might as well add an Incense of Awareness and Leliana's Suppressing Fire into the pot.

[DarthGizka]

Good idea. Leliana is often the biggest help in nasty battles because she pours a steady stream of ranged damage into the enemy horde; you just need to tell her where you need it most. Melees spend a lot of time not doing any damage at all, chasing after enemies or re-approaching after having been swept aside by a massive attack. Even mages spend a lot of time not doing damage; prepping the enemy, positioning and things like that, even as nukers. Not so Leliana. She starts shooting when battle commences and doesn't stop until the last enemy is down. In many of my games she has the biggest contribution to party damage of all companions. Speccing her as an archer makes her even more effective, but it is not strictly necessary.

Anyway, I wanted to show the bare bones of the strategy to show how little you need by way of equipment, special training and so on, while giving enough detail so that people can try it out.

The key principle is focussing aggro on someone and then force-fielding them while the enemy takes damage from elsewhere. That someone might well be a soloing mage, with 'elsewhere' being an Inferno or a bomb spell. Once you have seen the power of this trick in action, it becomes a potent weapon in your arsenal.

[Blazomancer]

Force field is powerful indeed, and fun as well. I'm of the opinion that it is overpowered like Mana Clash. 18 seconds of invulnerability for the aggro magnet is quite something. It was intended that FF would reduce threat on the affected target but the script's broken I've heard. It can also be exploited for Blood Sacrifice without damaging the affected which makes it even more lucrative for blood mages. There are unofficial tweaks around that fixes these thankfully. But there I go, can't really blame them - mages in Thedas are supposed to be powerhouses after all.

[DarthGizka]

Threat reduction would certainly make Force Field less useful for some tactics; I'm glad that for once the scripts are broken in our favour. FF is powerful, but not too much so I'd say. It still forces you to get inventive with bridging the difference in duration compared to the infernos that you can unleash, and with bridging the gap between FF wearing off and the spell being ready to cast again.

Mana Clash is overpowered, I agree. But at four points its cost is exorbitant, given how rarely you use the spell and considering that the other spells in that line are mostly useless. Spellmight can occasionally be useful but the number of those occasions can probably be counted on one hand.

During the last couple of days I have tried to plan the rest of the spellbook for my nightmare mage, post level 14. That's why I have looked at Entropic Death, Storm of the Century and Mana Clash in great detail, to see whether they are worth the investment if you have to start them from scratch. Unfortunately, none of them are, compared to the cost. That is, considering all the useful spells that you would have to do without, all the necessities that you wouldn't be able to cover.

Conversely, Crushing Prison is almost back in favour because it gives you another big hammer against yellows and emissaries (I'm still somewhat traumatised from the clusters of fire-resistant drakes and yellow ash wraiths).

I've also come off Mana Clash because life without it is so much more interesting.

[DarthGizka]

I've gone and read up on threat in the wiki, in order to find out how much mayhem a mage can safely do without drawing aggro away from the tank.

Damage-based threat is basically the damage expressed as a percentage of the target's max HP. Since bosses have thousands of hitpoints, damage-based threat becomes insignificant even if doubled by Threaten. Distance-based threat and constant threat bonusses, like 300 for Taunt or 100 for Crushing Prison, play a much bigger role than normally and damage-based threat almost none. This means that the efforts of the tank to increase aggro by doing damage are mostly in vain if the enemy is a boss.

Someone at the edge of spell-casting range draws at best 30 to 40 less distance-based threat than someone within melee distance of the dragon. Even a simple Affliction Hex could nullify that difference, let alone a Misdirection Hex (60) or Death Hex (100).

Hence, Taunt is absolutely key in boss battles. A mage shouldn't even fart in the direction of the dragon before the tank has taunted, except for plinking away with a staff.

A tank can generate 300 threat every 20 seconds, but a mage can easily generate much more in a shorter time. Dropping the four hexes on the dragon and a Crushing Prison takes five seconds and already gives 300 threat, even if the damage component is ignored.

Hence it is important to look at the threat generated by the various spells and to dose them carefully in relation to the tank's taunts. The first two hexes plus Virulent Walking Bomb plus Crushing prison amount to 210, leaving ample space for a Misdirection Hex to reduce wear and tear on the tank.

Hence a mage can hasten the demise of the dragon considerably, but that will cost quite a bit of lyrium.

[Mike3207]

I'll admit I was never really ever able to get Taunt to work properly. It always seemed like Alistair activated it only after the battle was over.

[mousestalker]

With Tactics the only way to be really certain something will happen is to put the trigger first in the queue. The problem is that you can not put every trigger you want in the first spot.

[DarthGizka]

Mike Smith wrote...

I'll admit I was never really ever able to get Taunt to work properly. It always seemed like Alistair activated it only after the battle was over.

Letting the AI taunt can backfire in major ways, and I'd never use tactics for that except for special battles. That said, why don't you post your Alistair tactics in a separate topic and we'll fine-tune it to your exactest specifications? Such a discussion is bound to bring some gold nuggets to the surface, if we tap the rich ore of the experience in this forum.

Modifié par DarthGizka, 24 février 2014 - 07:00 .

[Cobra's_back]

I just played this game again. It is easier on the computer than the xbox 360. They have changed some spells to make them less useful. Having said that they still work great for the enemy AI. Crushing prison and Paralyze are a function of party size. If you travel with a party of four it is useless and doesn't even work on yellow AI.

 

Force Field doesn't work if there is an enemy mage or templar. It is easily removed. Spell Shield enemies take down easily.

 

Unbound is easy to solo with a warrior tank templar. Get the spell resistant gear and take some health potions and ice salves. He loves to freeze you. 

 

I have killed Flemeth and the High Dragon solo not hard as a warrior or mage provided you have fire resistance for Flemeth. Her fire breath really does some nasty damage. Dragons can't be stunned don't use this on them. Hexes do work so do traps for the high dragon. I know where he is going to land.

 

The first boss in Ostagar is easy if you have glyph of paralysis. He is the first enemy and you don't have many talents at this point. The Glyph is a first level and it works great. Move your people around. He can be stunned as well. I'm always careful to manage the group with this guy and use the stun and paralysis to get the best hits on him.

 

Soth demon is easy. You can change to four forms to nail this guy. Arcane horror has weakness to fire, can be stunned. Have ice salve and spirit salve for his ice spells and crushing prison. If he uses crushing prison use templar cleanse area or shockwave. I do spread the people out and use the tank to take the major damage. Just remember abominations have resistance to electric damage and Arcane can Regen. Arcane can be stunned and mind blast and dirty fighting can work plus it has weakness to fire. Uldred will freeze your tank. I spread the team out here. Glyph line works well here. Uldred is resistant to many spells. Glyph line and cone of cold do lock him in place. Warding is great and so are the following heroic aura, heroic defense to help your warrior.

 

Zathrian is easy with a templar. Mana Clash isn't going to one shot this guy. He can be stunned or paralyzed with the glyph line. Spell resistance gear on your templar. Cone of cold locks down many of your enemies. 

 

Revenants are easy skill points. They are immune to stun, konckdown, nature and ice but cone of cold can lock them in place. Petrify and glyph can't be resisted. The hex line works on this guy as well. Curse of mortality also works. I have played rogue, warrior and mage in dragon age. As long as you know the enemies weakest and strengths you can take them all down easily. I try to make sure to keep different equipment for different enemies.

 

Haste and archery is still bugged. The only fix in xbox 360 is the repeater gloves return to Ostagar or Shales rock mastery.

 

It is also fun to solo an enemy one on one. Your warden thanks to the fade has the highest level and attribute points. I like to keep the warden at least 50 percent contributor if not higher.

 

 

Darthgizka's combo: Virulent Walking Bomb and Paralysis Explosion, in the most convenient order. Killer combo. Walking bomb line does the most single spell damage. 

[DarthGizka]

Also regarding revenants: the ones with Mass Pull can be quite a bit more difficult to handle than those without, and they may have better combat tactics as well. In my last playthrough, all the Juggernaut revenants only had single Pull and they only used it on the character with aggro. All the phylactery revenants had Mass Pull as well and used it liberally, independent of primary threat and aggro.

My rogue and warrior Wardens ate revenants for breakfast as soon as they were past the magical level 12 barrier, and they always soloed them for greater enjoyment and to reduce the chance of collateral damage. That is why the question of Mass Pull has never come up before. I was quite surprised that the revenants proved such a hard nut to crack for my mage, who had to engage the help of Shale and Wynne.

The revenants without Mass Pull can easily be put down using ranged attacks in combination with kiting or force-field tanking, and they can safely be dosed with Virulent Walking Bomb and all the other good stuff if due care is given to threat (the tank's taunts in relation to the mayhem wrought by mages). Unlike High Dragons, they respond extremely well to fiery treatments, especially Inferno which can also burn away their minions with a minimum of fuss.

There is one particular twist to roasting revenants: once the inferno starts raging they may run out and try pulling the tank out after them. If the tank is safely anchored via Force Field and none of the other party members is so close as to distract the revenant, then they will run back into the fire and continue beating on the force field.

Even with the lowest-tier flawed fire crystals Shale can get close to maximum fire resistance if Wynne has enough spellpower behind her Heroic Defence, especially if Wynne uses her Vessel of the Spirit ability. Aneirin's token awaits collection only a few steps away from one of the gravestone revenant sites.

The rest of the party can help out with ranged attacks in order to speed things up, but everyone should have a clear idea where to hide within one second should the revenant start to pull. That can easily happen if you heaped too many hexes, bombs and other goodies on the revenant in relation to the tank's taunts.

The Mass Pull revenants are a different kettle of fish. Once the tank is force-fielded they seem much more likely to look for someone else to beat up, and they use Mass Pull liberally to fish for new victims. You still have one or two seconds to scatter your troops and hide them behind obstacles to break the pull, but the frequency of the pull means that it is better to cut down on the number of companions in the battle zone. Particular care should be given to secure Wynne from pulls, since she cannot heal herself while running away and she usually doesn't have things like Cone of Cold to ensure a quick getaway.

Shale's Slam is invaluable in getting a revenant away from a squishy in a hurry, and it may even be enough to refocus the bugger. The revenant will often follow up with a normal (single) pull, though, so you need to watch out for that.

After Cone of Cold you can get just far enough away to arrange a Paralysis Explosion, even on nightmare. PE in turn gives you enough time for a bomb and a fireball in addition to running as far as you like, and to chose a better place for kiting or to peel the revenant off on your tank (Bellow/Slam).

 

Does anyone know how close you have to be to a revenant in order to keep ranged attacks from triggering a pull?

[Blazomancer]

Does anyone know how close you have to be to a revenant in order to keep ranged attacks from triggering a pull?

Ranged attacks won't trigger a pull unless the attacker happens to be the most hated. Mass pull will only trigger if most of your teammates (excluding those that have fainted) is comprised of archers (warrior or rogue) or mages. So it's a given that a team comprising of a melee warrior/rogue, two mages and a ranged rogue/warrior for example will never be pulled en masse, unless the melee or the ranged character faints. Every revenant in the game have access to mass pull.

[DarthGizka]

Mass pull will only trigger if most of your teammates (excluding those that have fainted) is comprised of archers (warrior or rogue) or mages.

 

Blimey! So all the stress with Mass Pull could have been avoided entirely, if Leliana had switched back to melee after using her bow to open that DC 60 chest in the ruins? I've got to have a serious talk with her about stuff like that.

 

Anyway, that information is pure gold and it already made this thread worthwhile on its own. Thanks, you're amazing!

 

Does the script check whether ranged weapons are equipped, or does it probe for archery feats? Does range play any role at all, like perception range for example?

 

I read in several places that Mass Pull can be avoided by getting the distance just right, not too far, not too near. That was the reason for my original question, but it seems to be based on myth and conjecture.

[rosey1579]

You people are so sweet! You are so kind to reply! Just for you nice people, I will add a high dragon one!

High Dragon: This dude can only transport to four set areas, making him easy to defeat. Grab some mages and an archer and a melee dude. Place the mages in the space across the lava river with the little hills. Put them on those hills. You will need powerful spells and force field. Force field is probably one of the most important spells in the game, next to revival.  Use the warrior(s) to distract him (or her) from attacking the mages. You will notice that he does not really move much. Group heal whenever he fireballs. When he starts chewing on your warrior, force field!

In hindsight I can see the charm of revenant phylacteries, but I think you guys have mostly covered those. You are also highly educated in topics such as these. It makes me feel special that you guys took so much time in typing out these replies. I just took all my facts and glued them together into one place, then you guys made them whole.

[David]

I assume this is for Nightmare difficulty...

[rosey1579]

I suppose it could work for every difficulty level, because I am telling you these are overkill tactics.

[rosey1579]

Or maybe they're underkill... Sorry, just did a Flemeth.

[Blazomancer]

Does the script check whether ranged weapons are equipped, or does it probe for archery feats? Does range play any role at all, like perception range for example?

 

I read in several places that Mass Pull can be avoided by getting the distance just right, not too far, not too near. That was the reason for my original question, but it seems to be based on myth and conjecture.

It only checks for equipped weapons. Range doesn't seem to play any role; mass pull will be used even when the ranged members are out of perception range and/or don't have a line of sight. Mass pull doesn't affect anybody who is out of it's range, which I guess any bow can easily cover.

[DarthGizka]

Just did the revenant in the royal palace in Orzammar. Shale, my mage Fiona and the revenant were in the throne room, Leliana and Wynne out of sight in an adjoining room but within spellcasting range of all three combatants. Wynne and Fiona had their staves equipped, Leliana was standing by with her daggers.

 

Revenant did Mass Pull.

 

Should Wynne have switched to her sword instead of using the staff to boost her spellpower?

 

By the way, both the Ageless dragon and the revenant immediately lost interest in Shale when she got force-fielded, and started chasing my mage. Both had already been properly taunted at least once at that point, and neither had been dosed with more than one or two bomb spells and the odd cone or flame blast per taunt.

 

P.S.: Mass Pull seems to have a very long range. Definitely much farther than spellcasting range (28 m) but I couldn't say whether it can compete with a good longbow or staff. I'll do some experiments with the next vial where the environment is suitable for measurements (i.e. tiled like the elven ruins).

[Mike3207]

I really think you want some serious attack for your warriors when you start taking on revenants and dragons. For me, that means Perfect Striking with +100 attack for 15 seconds. Add in some talents like Owerpower and Assault, and you should do enough damage to keep aggro on your tanks.

[rosey1579]

It is so beautiful when people work in harmony to help fill a topic. Putting this all in one place has made me realise how much work bioware put into this! Let's keep posting, any comments on the following:

 

Annoying walking corpses in elven ruins: Alright, so I am sure we have all screamed at this one before, even though it doesn't have a boss in it (imagine the horror if it did!) it is difficult enough to make the forums. All one really needs is walking bomb and crushing prison spells, but a force field won't go amiss. If you have the crushing prison then you have the force field. They go boom and then the others go boom.

 

BTW. I want to know how many Dragon Age fans are out there, females and males (yes you get both) who have extensive knowledge on this topic, because honestly, these corpses can be more difficult than the Sloth demon. If you can't remember these corpses, they are the ones that appear after the ghostly boy says Mamme? Mammea? Mammea samae sandwich - or something...

[luna1124]

To kill Flemeth AND Andraste the dragon, I use Wynne (stay way back) and 3 archers with poison arrows. Stay out of the way, lots of greater warmth balm and when her life is down to 1/4 hit her with melee and more poison.

 

~Added, in fact this is how I kill Archy also_ Adding the balista into the equation.