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[kuro_sasori]

Comedicsteeler-MG4_LIFE wrote...

OK, thanks a lot for taking the time to look for it!  Although I noticed he said "the five game plan and further," so he is not really specifying five games tops, right? I guess it depends on how profitable this third installment turns out to be for them. 

[mikeymoonshine]

kuroi_sasori wrote...

Comedicsteeler-MG4_LIFE wrote...

OK, thanks a lot for taking the time to look for it!  Although I noticed he said "the five game plan and further," so he is not really specifying five games tops, right? I guess it depends on how profitable this third installment turns out to be for them. 

I guess so, does anyone know how profitabble the first two were? I don't think either of them did terribly or anything. 

I heard that EA is in a bit of a financial hole atm though and that DAI is meant to be one of the games they are hoping will save them so if that's true that's a pretty tall order but it may explain why they allowed the extra development time. 

[CybAnt1]

http://www.examiner....ls-and-spoilers

"I have no idea what I was talking about there, frankly. There's no plan for a specific, limited number of DA games. Oh, we totally do have an arc planned for DA, but if I said it was five games, I must have misspoke. More ongoing." -- Mike Laidlaw

[Mercedes-Benz]

Yes, thank you that video.

As for the topic (the Qun), until BioWare release an actual copy of the Qun (or at least put it all in a codex entry (or numerous codex entries)), it is hard to give a proper evaluation of it, but considering that the Qunari are strong (both in terms of physical strength and army (and navy) might) and are the most technologically advanced race (not to mention that they also have Human and Elven converts to aid them), I doubt that their philosophy is much of a weakness, if at all.

[Kidd]

The Qun does not know weakness. Weakness comes out of disarray, that which happens when one is not true to oneself. By rejecting one's nature, one can never attain anything.

Glory is not something that is found in submitting to chaos, it is only by learning the structure of the world that we can reach it. By taking pride in lacking the insight of self, it is impossible to know anything but weakness for all but a select few. And even those would reach higher, manage more and walk further from their past weakness by knowing order and their role in it.

No, the Qun does not know weakness. It does not need to.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I thought I heard one of the devs say that if Qunari conquer a society that has something that works better for them they will assimilate that practice into the Qun.

[CybAnt1]

They are not Borg. They certainly do want other humanoid races to join the Qun. In general, because they believe it is the best way of life/ethos for all to live under. Not so much to assimilate their cultures or technologies.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, Gaider was the one who described them as "militant Islamic borg". I mean, sure he later regretted that choice of words, but I think that was because that implied they were culturally similar to Muslims rather than thematically like a foil for Europe.

[CybAnt1]

The big differences between the Qun & the Qu(ra)n (you only need to add two more letters) is that the Qunari are essentially atheists. It is a moral/societal philosophy without any deities or a lot of the other trappings of religion. In that way, it reminds me somewhat of Buddhism - or maybe of Confucianism. However, like religious missionaries, they wish to bring the Qun to all, thinking that without it their societies will succumb to decay and chaos.

Very little is known about Ashkaari Koslun - which is to say so far they haven't said much about him in the lore. We know far less about him than, say, this world does about the Prophet Mohammed. He seems to have decided that individualism was the problem of his people. Perhaps he lived in a time where warlords struggled with each other among the Kossith - like Confucius. Thus he decided the answer was to eliminate individual selfishness - along with individual love and identity - and to create a society defined by rigid caste roles (sort of like Brave New World).

Functionally, I think the Qunari within Thedas work kind of like the Ottomans, complete with their cannons aimed at the capitals of various nations. Culturally, they are obviously very different. Hence Gaider's statement. Personally, they are careful not to make the Qunari seem too much like Muslims, because that could touch some rather contemporary political nerves in Europe. 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 09 février 2014 - 09:40 .

[Sentinel358]

CybAnt1 wrote...

The big differences between the Qun & the Qu(ra)n (you only need to add two more letters) is that the Qunari are essentially atheists. It is a moral/societal philosophy without any deities or a lot of the other trappings of religion. In that way, it reminds me somewhat of Buddhism - or maybe of Confucianism. However, like religious missionaries, they wish to bring the Qun to all, thinking that without it their societies will succumb to decay and chaos.

Very little is known about Ashkaari Koslun - which is to say so far they haven't said much about him in the lore. We know far less about him than, say, this world does about the Prophet Mohammed. He seems to have decided that individualism was the problem of his people. Perhaps he lived in a time where warlords struggled with each other among the Kossith - like Confucius. Thus he decided the answer was to eliminate individual selfishness - along with individual love and identity - and to create a society defined by rigid caste roles (sort of like Brave New World).

Functionally, I think the Qunari within Thedas work kind of like the Ottomans, complete with their cannons aimed at the capitals of various nations. Culturally, they are obviously very different. Hence Gaider's statement. Personally, they are careful not to make the Qunari seem too much like Muslims, because that could touch some rather contemporary political nerves in Europe. 

Qunari are not athiest though

[Jedi Master of Orion]

All I was saying was that Gaider apparently regretted the wording because of the "Islamic" connotations, not the "borg" part.

[Lulupab]

Well when whole Thedas was fighting the Qunari using mages against the armies of Qun was probably the case the battles were even resulting in truce. Mages were called into battle from all circles.

The Qunari are unmatched in sea battles cause of their explosives, making Par Vollen not possible to invade because the only possible way to reach it is through Naval attack. This is also why they could conquer Seheron (an Island) but they never set foot in Tevinter soil located in mainlaind Thedas, because mages, the strongest and best trained mages at that.
I'd say magic is a qunari weakness. 

Modifié par Rassler, 09 février 2014 - 09:56 .

[DRTJR]

The Qun's closest equivalent is the Codex of Ultimate wisdom from the Ultima games. except Koslun wrote his big book of what is good/bad, where as Lord British got the GD Avatar to steal it from a bunch of Gargoyles.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Rassler wrote...

Well when whole Thedas was fighting the Qunari using mages against the armies of Qun was probably the case the battles were even resulting in truce. Mages were called into battle from all circles.

The Qunari are unmatched in sea battles cause of their explosives, making Par Vollen not possible to invade because the only possible way to reach it is through Naval attack. This is also why they could conquer Seheron (an Island) but they never set foot in Tevinter soil located in mainlaind Thedas, because mages, the strongest and best trained mages at that.
I'd say magic is a qunari weakness. 

Actually during the Qunari Wars, the Qunari not only set foot on the Tevinter mainland but conquered every major city in the Imperium except Minrathous. And they it ruled there for 50 years. Since the Llomerryn Accords they haven't been able to succeed at any more invasions of Tevinter but they did prove they can defeat Tevinter mages.

[Sentinel358]

Rassler wrote...

Well when whole Thedas was fighting the Qunari using mages against the armies of Qun was probably the case the battles were even resulting in truce. Mages were called into battle from all circles.

The Qunari are unmatched in sea battles cause of their explosives, making Par Vollen not possible to invade because the only possible way to reach it is through Naval attack. This is also why they could conquer Seheron (an Island) but they never set foot in Tevinter soil located in mainlaind Thedas, because mages, the strongest and best trained mages at that.
I'd say magic is a qunari weakness. 

Thats not really unique to Qunari though, thats just a major advantage Tevinter has over every nation in Thedas. The qunari were able to over come that obstacle once but tevinter rebelled and  gained their land back. Really not a "weakness"

[Androme]

I don't think you understand what assimilation means. A society cannot ''assimilate itself'' into other cultures, which seems to be what you're trying to say.

Besides, if an entire race of people or a culture ''integrates'' with another one, then both races/cultures are lost anyways, so it's a defeat.

Modifié par Androme, 09 février 2014 - 10:02 .

[CybAnt1]

Qunari are not athiest though

Well, here's what the Wiki says:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Qun

The Qunari do not believe in deities and find the concept of invisible, omnipotent beings laughable. The Qunari place religious focus on the divine moral structure of the world, not divine beings. The Qunari tolerate deism in the converted populations in Rivain and Seheron, however, as they view their inhabitants as just beginning the path to enlightened self-knowledge, and that they will discard that sort of superstition eventually.

[end]

Of course, as always, it depends on how you define atheism. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Sentinel358 wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Well when whole Thedas was fighting the Qunari using mages against the armies of Qun was probably the case the battles were even resulting in truce. Mages were called into battle from all circles.

The Qunari are unmatched in sea battles cause of their explosives, making Par Vollen not possible to invade because the only possible way to reach it is through Naval attack. This is also why they could conquer Seheron (an Island) but they never set foot in Tevinter soil located in mainlaind Thedas, because mages, the strongest and best trained mages at that.
I'd say magic is a qunari weakness. 

Thats not really unique to Qunari though, thats just a major advantage Tevinter has over every nation in Thedas. The qunari were able to over come that obstacle once but tevinter rebelled and  gained their land back. Really not a "weakness"

Apparently, though, the Qunari lack this advantage more than any other nation does. They use mages, but IIRC everyone else uses them better.

[Sentinel358]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Qunari are not athiest though

Well, here's what the Wiki says:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Qun

[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">The Qunari do not believe in deities and find the concept of invisible, omnipotent beings laughable. The Qunari place religious focus on the divine moral structure of the world, not divine beings. The Qunari tolerate deism in the converted populations in ] and [/color]Seheron, however, as they view their inhabitants as just beginning the path to enlightened self-knowledge, and that they will discard that sort of superstition eventually.

[end]

Of course, as always, it depends on how you define atheism. 

Id define them as Agnostic for the lack of a better word because 1.) They do believe in some sort of afterlife and 2.) because David Gaider said they are not an athiestic society  

[CybAnt1]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

All I was saying was that Gaider apparently regretted the wording because of the "Islamic" connotations, not the "borg" part.

And whatever he meant by that statement, you can see that the Qunari goal is to bring other nations to the Qun because they think it will end social disharmony among them; not because they have a more functional goal of acquiring their technology or knowledge for the ox-man/qunari race. This is why I think he was suggesting the 'borg' analogy from Star Trek doesn't quite work perfectly, although it's one way to visualize how they act; the Qunari DO want to unite all races and all nations under the Qun. 

[Sentinel358]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Apparently, though, the Qunari lack this advantage more than any other nation does. They use mages, but IIRC everyone else uses them better.

I think you forgot dwarves lol but really the only nations or factions that have mages are Tevinter the Circle and the Dalish. Just because they have better knowledge of magic, that doesnt mean they're especially vlnerable to it. I dont see how that makes sense. They suffered losses due to magic no different than Orlesians suffering from fereldan swords

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Sentinel358 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Apparently, though, the Qunari lack this advantage more than any other nation does. They use mages, but IIRC everyone else uses them better.

I think you forgot dwarves lol but really the only nations or factions that have mages are Tevinter the Circle and the Dalish. Just because they have better knowledge of magic, that doesnt mean they're especially vlnerable to it. I dont see how that makes sense. They suffered losses due to magic no different than Orlesians suffering from fereldan swords

Better knowledge of magic? If I remember correctly they believe that mages can get you possessed by speaking to you. Which you could argue comes from better knowledge if there was any other evidence in that direction. In context of the rest of the setting I think we're meant to conclude the opposite of what you did. I'll concede the dwarves have fewer mages, though.

Edit: Or did you mean that everyone else has better knowledge of magic than the Qunari? In that case I'll have to point out that having more of an essential resource is always an advantage. If the other side has a better navy, you're vulnerable to naval attacks. If the other side has better long-range artillery, you're vulnerable to an artillery barrage. If the other side has a better magical force, you're vulnerable to magical attacks.

As for the Circle being one of the few groups that have mages, don't forget that there's a Circle in just about every human nation. So those nations have indirect access to magic.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 10 février 2014 - 12:08 .

[Sentinel358]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Sentinel358 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Apparently, though, the Qunari lack this advantage more than any other nation does. They use mages, but IIRC everyone else uses them better.

I think you forgot dwarves lol but really the only nations or factions that have mages are Tevinter the Circle and the Dalish. Just because they have better knowledge of magic, that doesnt mean they're especially vlnerable to it. I dont see how that makes sense. They suffered losses due to magic no different than Orlesians suffering from fereldan swords

Better knowledge of magic? If I remember correctly they believe that mages can get you possessed by speaking to you. Which you could argue comes from better knowledge if there was any other evidence in that direction. In context of the rest of the setting I think we're meant to conclude the opposite of what you did. I'll concede the dwarves have fewer mages, though.

Edit: Or did you mean that everyone else has better knowledge of magic than the Qunari? In that case I'll have to point out that having more of an essential resource is always an advantage. If the other side has a better navy, you're vulnerable to naval attacks. If the other side has better long-range artillery, you're vulnerable to an artillery barrage. If the other side has a better magical force, you're vulnerable to magical attacks.

As for the Circle being one of the few groups that have mages, don't forget that there's a Circle in just about every human nation. So those nations have indirect access to magic.

Im not arguing against it being an advantage im saying its not really a "vulnerabilty" because again, if they can conquer all of tevinter then, theyre no more vulnerable than anyone is to swords, its not their "kryptonite" so to speak. Yes every human nation has a circle but they still call for aid, they dont have direct control of them like with the Grey Wardens

Modifié par Sentinel358, 10 février 2014 - 12:46 .

[CELL55]

Sentinel358 wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

Qunari are not athiest though

Well, here's what the Wiki says:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Qun

[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">The Qunari do not believe in deities and find the concept of invisible, omnipotent beings laughable. The Qunari place religious focus on the divine moral structure of the world, not divine beings. The Qunari tolerate deism in the converted populations in ] and [/color]Seheron, however, as they view their inhabitants as just beginning the path to enlightened self-knowledge, and that they will discard that sort of superstition eventually.

[end]

Of course, as always, it depends on how you define atheism. 

Id define them as Agnostic for the lack of a better word because 1.) They do believe in some sort of afterlife and 2.) because David Gaider said they are not an athiestic society   

Would nonthiest work for you? I've heard Buddhism described that way and there are certain similarities with the Qun and 'finding the right Way', I think on an at least superficial level.

[Sentinel358]

CELL55 wrote...
Would nonthiest work for you? I've heard Buddhism described that way and there are certain similarities with the Qun and 'finding the right Way', I think on an at least superficial level.

Works for me

Modifié par Sentinel358, 10 février 2014 - 04:41 .