104 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike3207]

I thought the Human Noble origin was the best for similar reasons. It has the most involvement in the main plot by virtue the origin story being tied up in Loghain's coup, and in settling later conflicts the Human Noble is better suited to play the role of a neutral arbitrator than Dalish or Dwarven characters.

 

On the flipside however there is little incentive as a Human Noble to spare Loghain. The man is indirectly responsible for the murders of your family and all the hardships your character has gone through in the game, and it is difficult to come up with a plausible reason for sparing him. The Dwarf or Dalish origins work better on a playthrough where you intend to spare Loghain and recruit him into the Wardens. He is still an enemy of course, but its a lot less personal.

We've probably covered this before, but Gaider has already said Loghain had nothing to do with the attack on the Couslands-indirect or not. That ones completely on Howe.

 

If you're going to be marrying his daughter, there's obviously RP reasons to spare Loghain. She'll accept it he dies at the Landsmeet, but I still think you spare him because it's best for Ferelden.

 

One issue I have-you can tell Alistair you've agreed to make Anora queen, and it seems like he never even considers an accomodation about sparing her father might be part of that. I know Alistair is politically naive at the Landsmeet, but that really underscore a major reason why he should never take the throne. He simply doesn't have the political skills required at the time of the Landsmeet.

[Shadow Fox]

Hear, hear!

Screw with my loved ones you die!*as Vaughan,Marjolaine,Flemeth,Loghain and Howe learned the HARD way*

[Zazzerka]

lol what is this? The "who hates Howe more" competition?

 

"He dishonoured my people far more than yours!"

"No, mine!"

[Shadow Fox]

Hear, hear!

 

P.S. Not to mention the historical and cultural wound of knowing elves used to be slaves, put up with second-class citizenry because they figure "At least we're no longer slaves," then Howe re-opens the wound and robs them of their dignity by selling them back into slavery.

 

Not to mention BEFORE slavery, Howe locked the gates and massacred the people inside just because he could. Then, while everyone was reeling from their losses, they started dropping like flies from a new plague. (Which I'm still convinced Howe started.) THEN, as people were coughing and dying all over the streets, Howe sold what few healthy survivors were left into slavery. All in the guise of offering what they thought was much-needed medical aide. 

 

I repeat: slaughter, plague, slavery. In that order. Because of him. 

 

Someone's getting hurt.

No not hurt...Shanked.

[mousestalker]

The last thing you ever want to hear from my city elf warden is "Don't worry, I've got your back." She had Howe's back all the way from full health to x.x. 

[BioWareM0d13]

We've probably covered this before, but Gaider has already said Loghain had nothing to do with the attack on the Couslands-indirect or not. That ones completely on Howe.

 

 

 

 

The thing is...Howe's actions don't make a lick of sense unless he was given the go-ahead by Loghain.

 

Howe had to know in advance of Loghain's planned coup, otherwise an attack on the Couslands would have been sure to end in disaster. Even if he succeeds in seizing Highever the King will just declare him a traitor to the realm, strip him off all titles and lands, and charge his bannermen to bring the King's Justice to the false knight Rendon Howe. His little rebellion would have been over almost as soon as it began. Howe wouldn't have been foolish enough to plan an attack on the Couslands unless he knew of Loghain's coup, and knew that Loghain would confirm him as the rightful lord of Highever.

 

Also the Couslands were the most powerful noble family in Ferelden and among the most loyal to the king. Loghain's coup stands a very good chance of failure without first dealing with the Couslands. Without the Couslands first being dealt with, the betrayal of the king at Ostagar would have likely ended with the Couslands rallying support and marching on Denerim, with the king's banner flying high. Its awfully convenient that the noble family most likely to be a thorn in Loghain's side post-coup are murdered shortly before Loghain puts his plan into action.

 

In any case even if Howe acted alone and was thinking more strategically than Loghain in dealing with the Couslands first, Loghain still had to give saction to the attack after the fact. He had to confirm Howe's authority over Highever and protect him from the justice he would otherwise face for treason and murder. If Loghain didn't saction it beforehand, he certainly did after the fact.

[Mike3207]

The thing is...Howe's actions don't make a lick of sense unless he was given the go-ahead by Loghain.

 

Howe had to know in advance of Loghain's planned coup, otherwise an attack on the Couslands would have been sure to end in disaster. Even if he succeeds in seizing Highever the King will just declare him a traitor to the realm, strip him off all titles and lands, and charge his bannermen to bring the King's Justice to the false knight Rendon Howe. His little rebellion would have been over almost as soon as it began. Howe wouldn't have been foolish enough to plan an attack on the Couslands unless he knew of Loghain's coup, and knew that Loghain would confirm him as the rightful lord of Highever.

 

Also the Couslands were the most powerful noble family in Ferelden and among the most loyal to the king. Loghain's coup stands a very good chance of failure without first dealing with the Couslands. Without the Couslands first being dealt with, the betrayal of the king at Ostagar would have likely ended with the Couslands rallying support and marching on Denerim, with the king's banner flying high. Its awfully convenient that the noble family most likely to be a thorn in Loghain's side post-coup are murdered shortly before Loghain puts his plan into action.

 

In any case even if Howe acted alone and was thinking more strategically than Loghain in dealing with the Couslands first, Loghain still had to give saction to the attack after the fact. He had to confirm Howe's authority over Highever and protect him from the justice he would otherwise face for treason and murder. If Loghain didn't saction it beforehand, he certainly did after the fact.

I think Howe has evidence that the Couslands were traitors to Ferelden, evidence that he gives to Loghain. Or am I wrong on that?It's what I've heard.

 

Howe has control of the North after the fact. It's simply a fact that Loghain needs to deal with. It is a bit questionable that he gives Howe all those titles, and he might have had trouble getting all of them ratified by the Landsmeet.

[Corker]

The thing is...Howe's actions don't make a lick of sense unless he was given the go-ahead by Loghain.

 

Howe had to know in advance of Loghain's planned coup, otherwise an attack on the Couslands would have been sure to end in disaster. Even if he succeeds in seizing Highever the King will just declare him a traitor to the realm, strip him off all titles and lands, and charge his bannermen to bring the King's Justice to the false knight Rendon Howe.

 

I dunno.  It's been a while, but I seem to recall hints that the Couslands were actively pursuing foreign trade and alliances - the Antivan wife for Fergus, and something about Bryce's trip to Orlais?  I don't think they were up to something nefarious, but Howe strikes me as the sort who'd be able to turn those facts, plus some innuendo, lies, forgeries and false witness, into a halfway plausible case against the Couslands.  Surely his hand must have been forced?  This is Bryce Cousland, his oldest friend, we're talking about here.  Why, there were plans to marry their children!    But when he found these handy incriminating documents and confronted Bryce with them, et cetera. 

 

Really, he'd have to have some kind of plan.  He couldn't have known ahead of time how badly Ostagar would go - the Highever army with Fergus at its head was still out there when he set his plan in motion.  I suspect the idea would be to appeal to Loghain's paranoia about Orlesians, and get him to lean on the young king to accept Howe's words as legit.  When the king was dead, it just got easier.

[caradoc2000]

Now if I could find a mod that would allow for some nice marriage and romance scenes with Alistair (he's still my favorite) then I'd be all over that.

 I thought there was a marriage mod for Alistair?

[Zazzerka]

 I thought there was a marriage mod for Alistair?

 

There is. The keyword was "nice."

[congokong]

You make good points on how the human noble origin puts you in a strong position throughout the game. "Best" can be defined different ways though. I've only played mage, dalish, and human noble origins and the human noble one was the most boring and short.

 

The mage one was fairly long and I love mages. The developers also probably put more effort into it because warrior and rogue can have 5 backgrounds while mage has only 1.

 

I liked the dalish because it's sadder. Yes, the human noble loses their parents but you barely knew them. The dalish is taken from a content life as a nomad with a beloved clan and thrown into a human world that despises the dalish; forced to be a Grey Warden sentenced to death by either darkspawn or the 30 year lifespan. Duncan really comes across as an ******* in this origin as well. The human noble has lost their parents and land but they're still nobility and are given respect the dalish nor mage ever gets.

[Xilizhra]

To add insult to injury, Merrill and Hawke destroy the Warden's clan.

 

Oh, how I'd love to know the Warden's take on this.

In my Warden's case... deep rage at Marethari.

[Xilizhra]

Ah yes.. we can definitely formulate our viewpoint already. I just think it's sad that we may never be able to actually play through it. If I was to become enraged at Marethari, I'd still like to have the conversation with Merrill where she explains herself on why I might want to think that.

Well, the clan's still alive in my playthrough, so all that happened was that Marethari got herself killed and pinned the blame on Merrill.

[Xilizhra]

I haven't played DA2 in awhile. I know I've gotten that result. What are the requirements again?

Say that you take responsibility. A lie in my case, but worth it to avoid bloodshed.

[KaiserShep]

I didn't expect to slaughter the whole clan on my first go, and I have to say, Master Ilen puts up a good fight. I usually reload and spare them, but part of me likes the battle. I just wish there was more immediate impact on Merrill at the camp sight. Like, I imagine there should have been some kind of cut scene after it was over.

[cronshaw]

If I'm ranking:

Dwarven Noble

Dalish Elf

Dwarven Commoner

Human Noble

City Elf

Mage (but perhaps that's because I've played this one the most because I like mages. Or perhaps it's because Jowan is such a whiny ******)

 

as a class the warrior is the most annoying because you loose a talent point If you want to do a two handed weapon fighter

if you want a dual weapon fighter you are screwed unless you take the dalish

Rogues and Mages each at least are stuck with useful skills