104 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

To add insult to injury, Merrill and Hawke destroy the Warden's clan.

 

Oh, how I'd love to know the Warden's take on this.

Mine would punch Merrill in the face while calling her a moron.

[KaiserShep]

I honestly did not expect Merrill's quest to end well either, but curiosity got the better of me so I figured, what the hell, Sundermount's already a demon-infested hellhole anyhow. I certainly did not expect Marethari to take one for the team, but I suppose it's also her fault for walking into that nonsense and keeping it to herself all that time. Would've been pretty something to come back to the camp site to see the entire clan was offed by a giant pride demon.

 

It's just a damn shame that the Warden's story is supposedly over. Wtf is that about.

 

I actually prefer the Warden's story to be over, but I just wish that they didn't make the Warden (and Hawke) disappear. Ferelden/Thedas is a big place. You can keep a character around and simply have them at a great distance from the next protagonist. But overall, I dislike the idea of seeing these characters return outside of my influence, so the less I see of them after their stories are over, the better.

[Mike3207]

I have yet to play and elf and dwarves don't really interest me. I'm sticking with the human noble because I like the ending the most. Such a shame too because I wish I could have the same ending with an elf. At some point I'll play and elf, maybe in my next game or the one after that. It would be interesting but I have become so attached to my HNF, especially since I head cannon it and give her mage powers with a bit of story change for my own fun. Sometimes head cannon games provide the most fun really. Now if I could find a mod that would allow for some nice marriage and romance scenes with Alistair (he's still my favorite) then I'd be all over that.

There's a cameo in Awakenings between Alistair and the female HN about their marriage. There's also a comparable scene between Anora and the male human noble.

[Ryzaki]

The problem with me is that only a handful or maybe even just two versions of the Warden story make any sense or have closure. A romance with Morrigan or Ultimate Sacrfiice. The rest is crap.

 

Yeah gotta love the run off into the sunset for reasons endings. Living your LI and potentially the kingdom you were ruling behind. Classy.

[KaiserShep]

Is that where I went? The sunset? News to me.

 

Some of my characters don't romance anyone, so I don't have any attachments in that sense. It's the disappearance that bothers me in general. Also, I wonder if I should worry about Flemeth. If you don't kill her, she says you won't see her again. And yet I disappear anyways. It might make sense if Flemeth gets revenge on the Warden, but I don't understand if I left her on good terms.

 

Anyways, I'm getting way off topic, I guess? Maybe DAI will answer all of this, even if the Warden's story is over.

 

He'll show up drunk under someone's bed, much like Varric's friend.

[Cobra's_back]

I think Howe has evidence that the Couslands were traitors to Ferelden, evidence that he gives to Loghain. Or am I wrong on that?It's what I've heard.

 

Howe has control of the North after the fact. It's simply a fact that Loghain needs to deal with. It is a bit questionable that he gives Howe all those titles, and he might have had trouble getting all of them ratified by the Landsmeet.

I just played it. He didn't have any evidence of that. The King himself said he would take out Howe. The Couslands were loyal to the King and the King gave his word he would march an army against Howe. Howe had planned this ahead of time. You pick up a letter about this in Awakening. If you read the Cousland's families history, the Couslands supported the overthrow of the Orlesians. Howe's family were actually supporting the Orlesians. The Couslands defeated them and then the Howe's family supported Ferelden. 

[KaiserShep]

The problem with me is that only a handful or maybe even just two versions of the Warden story make any sense or have closure. A romance with Morrigan or Ultimate Sacrfiice. The rest is crap.

 

And all it took was just one line from Cassandra to do it. I dunno what the writers had planned for this, and if they actually intend to follow through, but I still wish that Cassandra just left the Hawke estate, talked about the war with Leliana for a few seconds, then fade to credits.

[Mike3207]

I just played it. He didn't have any evidence of that. The King himself said he would take out Howe. The Couslands were loyal to the King and the King gave his word he would march an army against Howe. Howe had planned this ahead of time. You pick up a letter about this in Awakening. If you read the Cousland's families history, the Couslands supported the overthrow of the Orlesians. Howe's family were actually supporting the Orlesians. The Couslands defeated them and then the Howe's family supported Ferelden. 

In the Rescue the Queen quest, you have a option to ask Howe why he attacked your family. There's a dialogue where Howe talks about your father taking trips to Orlais all while Howe sunk into obscurity. No evidence on wikia about documents-i must have read that in a fanfiction story or somewhere else.

[Ryzaki]

Is that where I went? The sunset? News to me.

 

Some of my characters don't romance anyone, so I don't have any attachments in that sense. It's the disappearance that bothers me in general. Also, I wonder if I should worry about Flemeth. If you don't kill her, she says you won't see her again. And yet I disappear anyways. It might make sense if Flemeth gets revenge on the Warden, but I don't understand if I left her on good terms.

 

Anyways, I'm getting way off topic, I guess? Maybe DAI will answer all of this, even if the Warden's story is over.

 

lol

 

But even mine that didn't romance anyone was Chancellor. He wouldn't just up and bounce.

 

I doubt Flemeth was even angry about it. She did plan for it.

 

hopefully.

[Cobra's_back]

In the Rescue the Queen quest, you have a option to ask Howe why he attacked your family. There's a dialogue where Howe talks about your father taking trips to Orlais all while Howe sunk into obscurity. No evidence on wikia about documents-i must have read that in a fanfiction story or somewhere else.

 

Thanks Mike. Taking trips to Orlais is not treason to me. If this is all he had he surely didn't need much to start butchering everyone.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Thanks Mike. Taking trips to Orlais is not treason to me. If this is all he had he surely didn't need much to start butchering everyone.

While I absolutely agree with you on that, I will note in Howe's defense that it's probably the fact that it's Orlais rather than... the Free Marches, for example, that does it. (Assuming he's not just doing it because he wants more power and just making excuses with the whole "Orlais" thing, which knowing Howe is not a safe assumption.)

[Cobra's_back]

"(Assuming he's not just doing it because he wants more power and just making excuses with the whole "Orlais" thing, which knowing Howe is not a safe assumption.)"

 

Good point.

 

 

His behavior points to power. Because he doesn't have any hardcore facts I dismiss him. 

[Mike3207]

As a Cousland, I find that line more like an excuse for why he felt justified rather than any kind of actual reason because again, based on the game, Orlais has been gone for 30 years, no? Could it not be possible that peace with them and becoming allies might hold a future. Outside of metagaming into game two... you have to wonder about that. And actually, with the Couslands dead and Cailan not on the throne, it turns out in DA2 that we have problems with Orlais. I wonder if could be due to the fact that without Cousland and Cailan working to be friends things go south because nobody is trying to or wanting to have some sort of peaceful relationship with them. Nobody seems to mention that as a likely reason why in game two things with orlais aren't going well but the tides shifted quite a bit when the king and cousland died. It seems they were the only two trying to seal them as allies. You lose them and the political landscape changes dramatically.

 

The blanket assumption is that Orlais betrays or will betray you and Cailan was a fool. Why is that the only route? I see it more as having lost the two people that were working toward making them allies and having true peace are dead and that changes things. Old hates continue and even fester. Loghain brought up many of them himself, probably revitalizing it when perhaps it was ready to be a thing of the past.

I think what really killed both Cailan and Bryce was their support of let's call it the Orlesian peace initiative. Basically, it gives the Orlesians Ferelden free of charge and turns them into a client state of Orlais. I think Howe knew that Bryce supported it and felt that was sufficient to kill all the Couslands. The Orlesian peace initiative was political dynamite and it would have been risky for anyone to support it at this point in time. You will notice that no one in Ferelden has tried to approach peace with the Orlesians since-or at least I don't think they have.

 

EDIT-Cailan wasn't killed by the treaty, more the darkspawn. I think though if he had presented it to the Landsmeet it would have meant his death.

[Ryzaki]

I think as a warden, once you kill the archdeamon, your job there is done and you get back to being a warden. The fact that people seem to think their job is actually more involved than that shows how badly written this part of the story was because you started as a grey warden. You are a grey warden. That is for life. Seems like doing anything else is having this rival for that main plot line take over and the story becomes wholly convoluted. Any writer worth their weight would look at it and wonder what the hell just happened to the main story of you being a warden. Was that never the main story? Was it just perchance that you became a warden so that everything was REALLY about the throne. There really is no logic in this. It's a major issue within the storytelling. You are a grey warden. What you do after should be grey warden stuff more so than anything throne related given that you are the last or second to last grey warden left in all of Ferelden. That's a pretty big issue. You didn't abandon your post before all this. But now that we've got this landsmeet issue, which truly is no different than the Orzamar one, we've ended up inserted into politics when really it is not our place except the game mechanics make it our place and even madate it. And suddenly, this warden thing no longer matters much. It's just a brief thing you did to stop the blight. Even if you are the last warden... becoming entangled in the throne is essentially abandoning being a grey warden, tis it not?

 

Considering 90% of my characters were conscripted they really don't give a damn what the wardens think they should do at that point. And they're more than strong enough to walk away and influential enough to make it a pain for the wardens to drag him/her back.

 

So yeah they'll abandon the order if they feel like it. They're not like Alistair who went willingly and they have no good experiences about the whole stick.

 

But if my character was playing as a pure grey warden who was only thinking about the blight and the order he/she would've went to Orlais (which isn't possible). Fereldan GW order was dead. Staying there and gathering armies at that point was trying to save a specific country from the blight (which while easily justifiable isn't what I feel a "true" GW would do.

 

The story isn't really convoluted though...the GWs were always means to ending the blight. The PC has no experience as a grey warden outside that.

[Cobra's_back]

I think what really killed both Cailan and Bryce was their support of let's call it the Orlesian peace initiative. Basically, it gives the Orlesians Ferelden free of charge and turns them into a client state of Orlais. I think Howe knew that Bryce supported it and felt that was sufficient to kill all the Couslands. The Orlesian peace initiative was political dynamite and it would have been risky for anyone to support it at this point in time. You will notice that no one in Ferelden has tried to approach peace with the Orlesians since-or at least I don't think they have.

 

EDIT-Cailan wasn't killed by the treaty, more the darkspawn. I think though if he had presented it to the Landsmeet it would have meant his death.

 

There is no proof of this. Howe states this because the Couslands traveled there. That is not proof. Nor is it a reason to murder them.

[Mike3207]

There is no proof of this. Howe states this because the Couslands traveled there. That is not proof. Nor is it a reason to murder them.

Have you played the DLC Return to Ostagar? In it, there are 3 letters-2 from Celene to Cailan, one from Eamon to Cailan. The first letter Celene says she'll send in Chevaliers with the Orlesian Wardens, the second letter Eamon says Anora is barren and that he suggests divorcing her, and the 3rd letter has Celene talking about a "permanent Alliance between Orlais and Ferelden" Now what is meant by that is your interpretation, but it could mean a marriage between Celene and Cailan. Take Loghain to Ostagar one time or watch the Youtube video-it's very entertaining.

 

As for Bryce-yeah it's likely theorizing. If there were to be a alliance between Orlais and Ferelden, Bryce would be the one to get involved. You have Marjolaine in Denerim-who's to say she didn't tell Howe about the negotiations. All this is guesswork, but it's at least plausible.It's would take a lot to get Howe to murder his liege lord-but he'd do it if he thought Bryce was a threat to Ferelden. I can definitely see where would think that alliance to be dangerous.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Have you played the DLC Return to Ostagar? In it, there are 3 letters-2 from Celene to Cailan, one from Eamon to Cailan. The first letter Celene says she'll send in Chevaliers with the Orlesian Wardens, the second letter Eamon says Anora is barren and that he suggests divorcing her, and the 3rd letter has Celene talking about a "permanent Alliance between Orlais and Ferelden" Now what is meant by that is your interpretation, but it could mean a marriage between Celene and Cailan. Take Loghain to Ostagar one time or watch the Youtube video-it's very entertaining.

 

As for Bryce-yeah it's likely theorizing. If there were to be a alliance between Orlais and Ferelden, Bryce would be the one to get involved. You have Marjolaine in Denerim-who's to say she didn't tell Howe about the negotiations. All this is guesswork, but it's at least plausible.It's would take a lot to get Howe to murder his liege lord-but he'd do it if he thought Bryce was a threat to Ferelden. I can definitely see where would think that alliance to be dangerous.

The problem is that from all we've seen (shamelessly embezzling, throwing Vaughn into the pit, that kind of thing), Howe is exactly the sort who would commit petty treason (ie, killing your lord rather than your king) for no reason other than to near the top of the food chain. He has never shown any degree of morality or hesitance to screw others over. I agree he would do it if there was to be a marriage, or maybe even merely an alliance, but we have no evidence of either apart from this. And on it's own, I don't think it's enough to merit rethinking Howe.

 

As for the letters, I think the "uncharacteristically familiar tone" Celene takes is evidence of her, at least, wanting this marriage. This isn't the proof Loghain certainly seems to view it as, but it is evidence.