61 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

It's the constant reassurance you have to do which gets irritating, regardless of content.
I can see why they did it but there should have been an alternative for those who were on the third iteration of the romance at least (just re-record the lines to make them less friend zoning).

I replayed lotsb last week as part of a complete play through and the scene on the ship where the two years of loss and hope come out ("ok.. ok..") really make it work.

I understand the whole point if you don't romance her she can seem stalkerish but I think that is because they tried to shoehorn two different paths into one set of dialogue, satisfying no-one.

[daveliam]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Since you say other LI's in the topic, romancing Kaidan has him making a reference to Shepard not waking him up, implying that they were sleeping in the same bed. So I'm assuming that the way it's supposed to come across is that Shepard and their LI are sleeping together, be it literally or post coitus, from the moment that they lock-in the romance, at the least, with the romance scene just the one time we get to see.

Was just going to add this.  I can't speak for Liara, but since you mention "other LI" in the title, I can say that it is definitely implied that Kaidan and Shepard are intimate.  There are a few dialogue options about "not waking him up" or "last night" which make it sound like they are regularly sleeping together.  Plus, I'd like to assume that Kaidan's date night option in The Citadel also leads to some play.  I mean, he comes over with beer and cooks you steak and bacon.  Then cuddles on the couch with you.  C'mon.  Shepard's only human, right?  S/he has to reward Kaidan for a well-played move.

[nallepuh86]

wombat777 wrote...

are lovers during the whole time in ME3? Or is it just that one time before the end of it all? I wonder because the devs make that one time all seriously romantic and everything, but Aethyta makes it clear she knows Shepard and Liara adre pretty steady lovers. What do YOU think?

Yes they are. They dont show everything they do. And that is one reason when they do something in camera, then it feels more special.

Frybread76 wrote...

The relationship does seem inconsistent throughout the game, IMO.

it was clear to me that they were all the time together and i cannot think how it could seen anyotherway.<3

Liara:wub: oh goddess.

[eyezonlyii]

Posting for the Cortez romance. At one point he says "If you're wondering why I'm smiling, it's because I'm still thinking about last night."

Then there's after the Geth Dreadnought mission where he sulks about being jealous of Shep in the squad in a tight space, to which Shepard replies, "Well we can try under the bed next time."

Modifié par eyezonlyii, 10 février 2014 - 06:42 .

[SwobyJ]

The game technically takes place over months, but we're not privy to a lot of the regular stuff.

Once a romance is secured, if it's an on-ship romance you can probably bet a bunch of things happened off-screen.

It's not like only a few days passed.

[Derpy]

Liara probably cheats on Shepard behind the scenes because all Asari are sex-driven and can't get enough.

[congokong]

As an exclusive Liaramancer I had to look up the alternate dialogue for the friend-zone. Some scenes have subtle changes like after Thessia. Occasionally there's comments for romances in the Leviathan DLC but it often falls flat. The time capsule scene should have been different and the citadel lock-in meet up for Liara was just awful. You can just switch romances on the Citadel without any effect. WTF! If you had a faithful Liara romance since ME1 you should be locked in unless you break it off. Traynor and Diana Allers shouldn't be coming onto you.

It's not all bad though for romance in ME. LotSB had my favorite scene of the series with the Normandy tour. It was very touching. That DLC had the biggest evidence of Liara's affection for Shepard even if you rejected her in ME1.

And I don't think ME3 takes any longer than say 2 months. After the geth dreadnought mission (roughly halfway through the game) Hackett states they only lost earth a few weeks prior.

Modifié par congokong, 10 février 2014 - 09:15 .

[dgcatanisiri]

StreetMagic wrote...

Daemul wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

If it's really that bad, I take back what I said. I only speak from the perspective of non-romanced. I figured since she had many lines, I thought it was positive (I romanced Jack btw.. so you'll see where I'm coming from. She's barely in the game).

The problem is Bio ware tried to write Liara as Shepards main friend/advisor but this meant that the romance was put on a back burner. It's why you'll find that the vast majority of the scenes with Liara are the same regardless of whether or not you're romancing her.

I can't tell what her role is really. As someone who doesn't romance her, I find her overbearing. And now I'm hearing people who do romance her think there isn't enough content.

If it makes you feel better, I'd prefer you guys getting as much "personalized/romance" type of content as possible, but only if she stops being my advisor. That way everyone's happy.

She's a Schrodinger's romance, perpetually in a state of both romance and not romanced until the chance to lock it in, unlike the others, who generally require prompting on the player's part to indicate that you want to be on that romance path. The problem with that is that by doing that, it plays up her relationship with Shepard above the others, which not everyone appreciates. I started fairly neutral on her myself, but having her repeatedly having these moments that felt like they were building to something romantic made me resent her - I get moment after moment with Liara, but Kaidan, who I had to wait until 3 to romance, gets one date on the Citadel and the pre-Cronos scene as pretty much the whole of their relationship... It's bothersome, putting it mildly.

I mean, I get the practicality of the whole conservation of resources and the give and get matters of resource alocation on the design level, but the fact still remains that this is still a case of railroading a Shepard-Liara close friendship at the expense of pretty much all other possibilities where the player does not find that level of relationship earned.

[RangerSG]

von uber wrote...

It's the constant reassurance you have to do which gets irritating, regardless of content.
I can see why they did it but there should have been an alternative for those who were on the third iteration of the romance at least (just re-record the lines to make them less friend zoning).

I replayed lotsb last week as part of a complete play through and the scene on the ship where the two years of loss and hope come out ("ok.. ok..") really make it work.

I understand the whole point if you don't romance her she can seem stalkerish but I think that is because they tried to shoehorn two different paths into one set of dialogue, satisfying no-one.

Yeah, this is the issue in a nutshell. Certain dialogues are too intimate for friendship, others too distant for an ongoing relationship. Perhaps if there was the fragility of having left her in ME2, it's not as jarring. But if you told her what you wanted in Shadow Broker, and reiterated it on Mars, that *ought* to have been enough to lock in. 

But I agree, Liara in Shadow Broker is very touching, even when she wishes you the best with someone else. But especially when you reaffirm her. And I'm saying that as someone who doesn't consider the Liara romance my canon choice.

[SiniisteR]

wright1978 wrote...

I'm a little disappointed that they didn't go with the approach of locking in the imported romance unless the player goes out of their way to break up. That way romances could have got more consistent content with the stage their relationship should be at and not have to field characters making passes at Shep.

Yeah, it would of been a more natural approach than the alternative, which for some reason implies that after just 6 months apart, all romances have to be put on break for some unknown reason.

Modifié par SiniisteR, 10 février 2014 - 09:44 .

[SwobyJ]

Broadly speaking:

ME1 - Couple months tops.
--Time Gap of 2 years dead--
ME2 - Couple months tops.
--Time Gap of several months on Earth--
ME3 - Couple months tops.

= 3-4 years passing (at most) since Shepard got on that Normandy the first time

Modifié par SwobyJ, 10 février 2014 - 09:52 .

[SwobyJ]

Initial arc - Couple weeks
Genophage arc - Couple weeks
Rannoch arc - Couple weeks
Ending arc - Couple weeks
Squeeze in another possible couple weeks for DLC, though you know I have questions about those Street

~~~

Earth's resistance is minimal by the end. They're hiding in camps in more rural/outskirts areas, and barely surviving. Most of the world's population has been surrendered, were directly killed, or were harvested during the initial weeks, with indoctrinated leaders and more accelerating the process.

Almost everyone who could be gathered, were gathered to get to London. (this is actually true for the galactic stage too, with places like the Citadel, species capital planets, and more, taken so everyone has no choice but to form a herd and follow the Shepard to Earth..)

Modifié par SwobyJ, 10 février 2014 - 10:07 .

[Daemul]

Theres a point in the game where Shepard tells Liara that they have been warning people about the Reapers for 4 years, its post-Thessia in Liaras room.

[SwobyJ]

Daemul wrote...

Theres a point in the game where Shepard tells Liara that they have been warning people about the Reapers for 4 years, its post-Thessia in Liaras room.

Good point. Yeah closer to 4 years, not 3.

[SwobyJ]

It's not always so much 'extremes' to them, I think. More the nature of game development budgets. Instead of doing almost everything but doing them all really half-assed, they try to trim enough things down and focus on what enough people said they wanted.

Bioware actually might go the extra mile for things, but that also results in... some annoying and angering things like Photoshop Tali...

[RangerSG]

SwobyJ wrote...

It's not always so much 'extremes' to them, I think. More the nature of game development budgets. Instead of doing almost everything but doing them all really half-assed, they try to trim enough things down and focus on what enough people said they wanted.

Bioware actually might go the extra mile for things, but that also results in... some annoying and angering things like Photoshop Tali...

I don't know. I've never been as mad about Tali as others. I mean, they all but cloned Yvonne to make Miranda. And the lore said years before that Quarians were closest to humans in cosmetic appearance, including having hair. So I think a lot of people ignored the hints. Not to say I didn't prefer the initial unmasked Tali that went out before, or the one corrupttemplar did on DA. But I can't get mad about that, despite the Talimancer being my favorites. The only thing I get mad about in the Tali romance is the final dialogue in the EC. Where once again Harbinger Assumes Control and ensures Shepard doesn't say what you plainly wanted him to say. I have to headcanon he whispered the 3 little words to her before pulling away at the end. :S It's sad, because the initial final dialogue between them was actually better, with the reversal of the lines from Rannoch. 

Modifié par RangerSG, 10 février 2014 - 11:50 .

[SwobyJ]

I wasn't angry about Photoshop Tali, but I get why people were.

I think the only thing I had any anger over (if anything) was that I think Bioware treated the end of a trilogy as instead the transition into another story. I still think that, after all DLCs. Actually no, not mad. Really just disappointed (though less so after seeing what I view as big hints in the DLCs).

[CosmicGnosis]

RangerSG wrote...

And the lore said years before that Quarians were closest to humans in cosmetic appearance, including having hair. So I think a lot of people ignored the hints. 

Whoa, when was this revealed? I've never heard anything about it.

[General TSAR]

Meh.

Blue Bimbo sucks anyway.

[fhs33721]

Well as someone whose mother language is german and who plays the game mostly in german I have to say the liara romance doesn't seem that badly inconsistent. Mostly due to the fact that the german word for friend "Freund(in)" can be used for a friend or someone you are in a relationship with. Only during my second playthrough, where I didn't romance her, did I notice that the lines are mostly the same.

To answer the OP:
If you have the citadel DLC you can sleep with your LI on-screen once more before the Cerberus headquarters. Also I think that they Shepard and their respective LIs are indeed lovers troughout ME3 (At least starting from the point where you confirm your romance) but its just off-screen.

[RangerSG]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

And the lore said years before that Quarians were closest to humans in cosmetic appearance, including having hair. So I think a lot of people ignored the hints. 

Whoa, when was this revealed? I've never heard anything about it.

Follow the wikia link in the Quarian article, and you'll see the 1st Mass Effect concept art appearance for the Quarians, the public release of which dates to after the 1st game, and has the same lavender tone skin, hair and other similarities to humans. The Tali Unmasked image that was popular before ME3 was based on that concept art as well, and affirmed as being 'close' to what Quarians looked like. 

So the idea the Photoshop somehow 'dealienized' the Quarian appearance isn't accurate, because they rendered it in line with the concept art. 

[RangerSG]

daveliam wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Since you say other LI's in the topic, romancing Kaidan has him making a reference to Shepard not waking him up, implying that they were sleeping in the same bed. So I'm assuming that the way it's supposed to come across is that Shepard and their LI are sleeping together, be it literally or post coitus, from the moment that they lock-in the romance, at the least, with the romance scene just the one time we get to see.

Was just going to add this.  I can't speak for Liara, but since you mention "other LI" in the title, I can say that it is definitely implied that Kaidan and Shepard are intimate.  There are a few dialogue options about "not waking him up" or "last night" which make it sound like they are regularly sleeping together.  Plus, I'd like to assume that Kaidan's date night option in The Citadel also leads to some play.  I mean, he comes over with beer and cooks you steak and bacon.  Then cuddles on the couch with you.  C'mon.  Shepard's only human, right?  S/he has to reward Kaidan for a well-played move.

Should note that Tali and Shepard are intimated to have been physical more than the few times shown in game as well. And corroborating this is Tali's dialogue about having 'adapted' to his physiology. If Quarian immune systems adapted in (at most) 5 exposures, then no one would think their systems nearly as weak as they are made out to be. Especially given the 7 or even 8 month gap from when the Normandy crew is broken up post ME2 until their reunion. And even further, because, given her concerns for decorum with the other Admirals, I doubt they're intimate again until Rannoch's resolution. 

So yes, I'd always assumed there was more contact than shown. I'm pretty sure even the Liara romance hints at him suggesting he steals her away 'nightly.' I took that as a 'slight' exaggeration. But still, intimacy is implied as regular in all of the crew member relationships.

[RangerSG]

fhs33721 wrote...

Well as someone whose mother language is german and who plays the game mostly in german I have to say the liara romance doesn't seem that badly inconsistent. Mostly due to the fact that the german word for friend "Freund(in)" can be used for a friend or someone you are in a relationship with. Only during my second playthrough, where I didn't romance her, did I notice that the lines are mostly the same.

To answer the OP:
If you have the citadel DLC you can sleep with your LI on-screen once more before the Cerberus headquarters. Also I think that they Shepard and their respective LIs are indeed lovers troughout ME3 (At least starting from the point where you confirm your romance) but its just off-screen.

It's not so much the use of the 'word' friend, to us. As I've said, a person can be both a lover and a friend. Indeed, part of why I like the Garrus and Tali relationships is that they are the blossoming of that 'best friend' relationship. The two people who 'always' had Shepard's back and trusted the PC. 

But the way Liara uses friend in context often seems like she's putting a wall up between herself and Shepard. And it's a wall that ought to have been breached if the relationship was in its 3rd iteration. It makes sense if there are reasons for those doubts in the events of ME2. But not for a 'faithful' Shepard.