67 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

riverdalewhiteflash sorry my bad.


She could have made the case for her father to join the Grey Warden. Trying to get the Warden in trouble was a no win for her.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

riverdalewhiteflash sorry my bad.


She could have made the case for her father to join the Grey Warden. Trying to get the Warden in trouble was a no win for her.

How does she know she can trust you, though?

[Cobra's_back]

This is her problem isn't it? Any lie can backfire.

As for Loghain, I'm of the opinion he planned it. Howe would never have went after the Couslands without his consent.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

You're wrong about that, actually. Word of Gaider is that Loghain didn't know about Howe's attack on the Couslands until after the fact. So at worst, when he found out about it he did nothing. He didn't give his blessing though.

As far as Anora suggesting Loghain could be a Warden, I doubt it occurred to her. It's not like the Warden suggests it as an option either. (And even then, Alistair would have argued against it.)

[Cobra's_back]

Shadow: I just thought that because King Cailan stated how did Howe think he could get away with this.

I’m sure Loghain wasn’t pleased that Cailan was going to marry the Empress. He had every reason to hate the Orlesian. I don't think letting King Cailan die was a last minute decision. Did Gaider make a statement about this?

Shadow wrote:

"As far as Anora suggesting Loghain could be a Warden, I doubt it occurred to her. It's not like the Warden suggests it as an option either. (And even then, Alistair would have argued against it.)"

Shadow: To be honest I always wondered if Anora went after Riordan and asked about her father being a Grey Warden would the outcome be different? Both the Warden and Alistair didn't know what needed to happen to kill an Archdemon. Would it have been different if they knew a warden had to make the killing blow and would die as a result before killing Loghain?

My character will not learn the truth until the end.

Modifié par ghostbusters101, 19 février 2014 - 01:07 .

[Cobra's_back]

Here is a funny thought. You have a brawl the Warden and Alistair are killed. Anora is queen and her dad tries to take on the archdemon himself but fails. Ferelden becomes zombie town.

Just kidding

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Shadow: I just thought that because King Cailan stated how did Howe think he could get away with this.

I’m sure Loghain wasn’t pleased that Cailan was going to marry the Empress. He had every reason to hate the Orlesian. I don't think letting King Cailan die was a last minute decision. Did Gaider make a statement about this?

Yeah. He stated that Loghain knew from the very start that he might be forced to walk away, and that that's part of why he tried to make Cailan see reason on the whole "fight on the front lines" thing. He also stated that Loghain didn't make the actual decision until he saw the signal.

Also, as I previously pointed out, it's pretty clear from the dialogue that Loghain didn't know what Cailan was planning until he saw the letters.

Shadow wrote:

"As far as Anora suggesting Loghain could be a Warden, I doubt it occurred to her. It's not like the Warden suggests it as an option either. (And even then, Alistair would have argued against it.)"

Shadow: To be honest I always wondered if Anora went after Riordan and asked about her father being a Grey Warden would the outcome be different? Both the Warden and Alistair didn't know what needed to happen to kill an Archdemon. Would it have been different if they knew a warden had to make the killing blow and would die as a result before killing Loghain?

My character will not learn the truth until the end.

Considering that Alistair is only slightly less ticked off if Loghain makes the ultimate sacrifice, I'd say it wouldn't have changed things much.

[Dabrikishaw]

Sure, I do it all the time. She gives you her support for the Landsmeet, Alistair avenges the losses at Ostagar, Alistair is made sole ruler of Fereldan by default since Anora breaks off her deal. I get everything I wanted.

[DarthGizka]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Word of Gaider is <whatever>

What Gaider says he intended - or what he thought he was writing - is completely irrelevant. The prat couldn't write a believable, consistent character or story if his life depended on it. Just go read the inflated game exposés that he sells as books.

What matters is only what he actually did write, and even there mostly the parts that made it into the game and which may have been changed by the game designers. It is difficult enough to build a consistent picture from the data provided in-game; random noise from Gaider only adds contradiction and confusion.

[Cobra's_back]

Good point DarthGizka.

It is confusing and has many inconsistencies. One thing is clear if the wardens were killed the archdemon would have made Ferelden a zombie town. Loghain was suppose to be a great general but he doesn't even study the situation well. This is the fifth Blight. You would think the guy would study the past four and put a plan together to save Ferelden. If he was smart would he not see a connection between the warden and the archdemon?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Good point DarthGizka.

It is confusing and has many inconsistencies. One thing is clear if the wardens were killed the archdemon would have made Ferelden a zombie town. Loghain was suppose to be a great general but he doesn't even study the situation well. This is the fifth Blight. You would think the guy would study the past four and put a plan together to save Ferelden. If he was smart would he not see a connection between the warden and the archdemon?

Actually, Ferelden was screwed because he was slightly smarter than that. The Wardens being the ones to defeat the previous four Archdemons doesn't mean they're necessary. In point of fact they are necessary, but the fact that they killed the last four isn't proof of that. So, in the absence of the non-publically-available information as to why they're necessary, why should he believe that they are?

[Cobra's_back]

Thanks Riverdaleswhiteflash for the reply. It doesn't make sense to me for Howe to attack Cousland when Cousland has the king's support. Per Gaider Loghain didn't make the decision until the last minute also doesn't make sense for a General. Thanks for the data.

[Cobra's_back]

Riverdaleswhiteflash Howe had the warden documents. Loghain is a general and yet he doesn't ask why they are needed? The first Blight proved they were needed but the details were not public. What is the function of spies? Why was he not using them? I can't believe this guy was a great general.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Thanks Riverdaleswhiteflash for the reply. It doesn't make sense to me for Howe to attack Cousland when Cousland has the king's support. Per Gaider Loghain didn't make the decision until the last minute also doesn't make sense for a General. Thanks for the data.

Nothing Howe does makes any sense. (Unless you count the slavery, which is amoral and cruel but at least makes sense in the context of "we have no money.") I think Gaider just didn't care.

As for a field general not making any last minute decisions, I think you're overestimating them a bit. Things change on a battlefield. Sometimes very quickly.

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash Howe had the warden documents. Loghain is a general and yet he doesn't ask why they are needed? The first Blight proved they were needed but the details were not public.

No it didn't. What it proved was that those Wardens in particular were useful.

As for the documents, Riordan notes that they were encrypted. He notes that they were pretty well encrypted too, for whatever his opinion is worth. (I have little respect for Riordan. Notwithstanding that Loghain does turn out to be useful, killing him on the Landsmeet floor really is the smarter option. I'm defending him from a meta-game perspective, not that of most of my Wardens.)

What is the function of spies? Why was he not using them? I can't believe this guy was a great general.

Considering that Alistair didn't even know, I'm uncertain what spying on them would have accomplished. Besides, it's not like he doesn't have some espionage going on. (Though the stuff we know he has going on is controlled by Howe, and Gaider knows whether he would have done anything with it.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 19 février 2014 - 04:12 .

[Cobra's_back]

Thank you Riverdaleswhiteflash. I thought Alistair was a fresh recruit and wouldn't have known much. I was thinking if Loghain was going to make such a bold move, he would have planned for it. It looks as if he made a rash decision at the last minute.

I'm just looking forward to the brawl that I never did yet. I watched a you tube video and it looks like fun.

Modifié par ghostbusters101, 19 février 2014 - 04:49 .

[Cobra's_back]

I guess you can win the landsmeet without Anora's support found this on you tube:

Dragon Age: Origins - Told Anora to shove it and still won the Landsmeet.

Steps completed to secure the win:
- Spoke to Arl Wulff *before* the landsmeet (before rescuing the queen), during the landsmeet, persuaded that the blight was the real threat, not Orlais
- Rescued Oswyn, son of Bann Sighard from Howe's dungeons, spoke to Bann Sighard afterward (tavern)
- Freed Bann Vaughan from the prison (after defeating Howe) and asked for his support in the landsmeet
- Freed Bann Alfstanna's brother, Irminric, from the dungeons, spoke to Bann Alfstanna afterward (tavern)
- Completed the Trial of the Crows quest (given by Master Ignacio) for the support of a noble who claims you helped him with "a family matter"
- Brought up the slave trading in the Elven Alienage
- Did NOT bring up Cailan or Ostagar at all

Looks as if there is another approach. I don't think I can let Bann Vaughan live after what he did to the Elves. The brawl looks good.

Modifié par ghostbusters101, 19 février 2014 - 05:29 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The wiki states that if you bring up Loghain's intereference with the Templars (assuming you've done the quest whereby Alfstanna can prove it for you), you'll need to either also do Trial Of Crows or free Vaughn. Which I felt like pointing out because while both are somewhat dirty actions, Trial of Crows is easily the better one for Ferelden and you seem to be going for as clean a character as possible. (Good luck with that in this setting, btw.)

Edit: Further warning: do not bring up the slave trading. The wiki says that for this, you want to bring up uniting in the face of the Blight first round, Howe's torture of nobles second round, and Eamon's poisoning third round.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 19 février 2014 - 06:14 .

[Cobra's_back]

Thanks Riverdaleswhiteflash excellent information.