36 réponses à ce sujet

[knaus86]

 If the genesis system returns for me4, aside from the 3 main choices, what should be the main options to change the background of the game?

for me it's:

1. Rannoch/quarians saved/destroyed?
2. Geth saved/destroyed?
3. Genophage cured?

It would be cool to have one game where u can visit a thriving Rannoch, and another game where the geth have taken over?


obviously this creates a lot of extra work and content that may not be seen. That why I limited it to 3. 

Whats your top 3-5?

Modifié par knaus86, 11 février 2014 - 08:22 .

[SwobyJ]

Assuming:
-Sequel to ME3
-Yet not full sequel, and acts as partial reboot with less factors to take into account (at least for anything in main storyline)

~~~

1. State of ME1/ME3 squadmates (ignore ME2 ones)
2. Genophage and Krogan status
3. Rannoch and Geth and Quarian status
4. (High) Destroy, (High) Control, Synthesis; Breath Control and lower states only possible with import

~~~

However, if they go for a Keep-type system, then whatever, have at it with most variables.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

(off-topic) -- SwobyJ, where does EDI say that line?

[ImaginaryMatter]

I assumed they would be using some spacier sounding version of the Dragon Age Keep system. That is if any thing is imported at all which I doubt. The endings pose to great a difference unless there is some sort of massive time gap, in which case nothing else would really matter either.

Otherwise to be a good sport I'll go with:

• Ending Choice (minus Refuse)... unfortunately...
• Rannoch choice
• Tuchanka choice (including Wrex, Wreav, and Eve)
• Rachni choice (a chance to have this mean something?)

Basically anything that effects the outcomes of the various races.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 11 février 2014 - 09:14 .

[shodiswe]

I hope they put the most effort into the new character/s rather than the old story.

Allowing us to evolve our character with whatever background we choose. Perhaps we could get a chance to actualy experience the backgrounds as short sequences of our characters life until we get thrown out into the mainstory.

My point is, most of Shepards initial fame and greatness came before the player got into the picture. It didn't seem as real even if a lot of people were talking about it.

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 février 2014 - 10:41 .

[shodiswe]

While it might be nice to get thigns to carry over in some fashion I would prefer it if they focused on making the best game ever, rather than putting a bandaid on the old series.

[katamuro]

I hope there is no such thing, I hope its a fully new trilogy or if its a direct sequel then there needs to be a canon decision on all of those or at least on how the ending has impacted stuff. Ehh, I have not a frieking idea i just hope they do their best and produce something really good.

[Grizzly46]

This would assume ME-Next is a sequel to ME3, and that would be quite hard to do since every ending changes the galaxy too much.

[Ironhandjustice]

If they were smart, they should do a mid-quel where all these factors do not matter, minus in the end to show you some slides... and your final mission is to find the TRUE way to defeat the reapers. Shep should be indoctrinated and all be an illusion.

As stated on the MS comics, the crucible would be a trap, and if you are smart enought you'll be able to save your sheppard. Or kill him/her.

This would make the ending much easier to fix for BW and EA. I'm not particularly fan of IT, but on a commercial point of view, this would be the easier way to continue the franchise for them.

I put in bold FOR THEM, I'm not entering in the "ending swamp".

[JasonShepard]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

(off-topic) -- SwobyJ, where does EDI say that line?

You're refering to the line in SwobyJ's sig? That's if you take EDI with you to Thessia. She says it as Reaper walks past.

On-Topic
If they can set up something like the Keep for Dragon Age, I don't see why they couldn't set up something similar for Mass Effect. Which means most variables could probably be set.

As for default states - if they do go for a sequel without canonising an ending choice, I'd expect three default starting states, each based around one of ME3's endings with other choices being roughly consistent.
Something like this:

Destroy - Killed the Rachni Queen, Didn't cure the Genophage, Saved the Quarians, picked Destroy.
Control - Released the Breeder, Didn't cure the Genophage, Saved the Geth, picked Control.
Synthesis - Released the Rachni Queen, Cured the Genophage, Saved everyone at Rannoch, picked Synthesis.

Character states would probably be at their simplest - ie most people that can be dead, would be dead.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 11 février 2014 - 11:57 .

[cap and gown]

I have no desire for a Genesis, any import ability, or any questions about how things were decided in the last game. I want a fresh start. "I'm calling blank slate on ME1-3. Gas these commandos and start over again."

[Ironhandjustice]

cap and gown wrote...

I have no desire for a Genesis, any import ability, or any questions about how things were decided in the last game. I want a fresh start. "I'm calling blank slate on ME1-3. Gas these commandos and start over again."

That's my point.

If you make a paralell story, the states are irrelevant.

-Krogan: the krogan could be both dying because of a cure failure or find genophage cure in any case with  time.
-Geth: Same. If they were destroyed, with a hundred living platforms, the could move to somewhere and rebuild to avoid friction with quarians. If not, they could move anyway to have more room (or avoid friction anyway)
-Quarians: Same. Not all the ships were destroyed, so some survived. For me was idiotic to send every man, woman and child to fight. Why on space they should do that?
-Rachni: Revived once, revived twice. They could be cloned, or the noveria queen could have made another queen that was stolen by Saren but got lost.

The messy problem is JUST the ending. Is the only stuff that has enough relevance to broke the continuation, and thats because the reapers. The only bypass to this is "after 20.000 years and after a galactic cataclysm, we forgot about them", and is just crappy.

On the other hand, with a standarized ending (that's why IT is good for them, allows to continue the universe without pissing up the choices, that Shep ACTUALLY did), they could move on.

And, to finish, in a huge and vast galaxy... Do you think you'll find some relevant of the Shep's crew? Yea, sure, and you can win euromillion first prize as well.

So, for me, a clean ending is possible without effort. Only with revamp or IT ending. And I would not believe they're going to revamp.

Art.

[Iakus]

 IHJ has it right.  The choices simply lead to too much potential divergence in the state of the galaxy.  And Bioware has shown they can't even handle a dozen characters living or dying, or the state of the Council.
Which is why I say disregard Shepard's story.  Start over with a clean slate.  Don't worry about Shepard's choices.  There is no spoon Shepard.  

[bayofangels]

No choices please. Fresh start.

[AlexMBrennan]

It would be cool to have one game where u can visit a thriving Rannoch, and another game where the verb have taken over?

That seems very inefficient - Bioware would have to write appropriate dialogue, make appropriate geth models, balance the geth's combat abilities to provide a fair challenge... for the vast majority of players to never see it.
Any of the big issues (Reapers dead/enforcing police state/synthesised) will have to be retconned in some form (e.g. "Synthesis is inevitable" means Bioware can go forward with a transhumanist plot in ME4 regardless of Shepard's choice)

[Dextro Milk]

I would prefer the next Mass Effect game to start with a clean slate, and not even try to touch upon Mass Effect 3's events.

[SwobyJ]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

(off-topic) -- SwobyJ, where does EDI say that line?

I believe on Thessia.

It's that whole "If we can get to that beacon, we can all wake up" kind of thing, I think.

[SwobyJ]

StreetMagic wrote...

If they couldn't handle the Council choice of ME1 right (keeping status quo, human led, or all human councils), I doubt they'd do something as drastic as factoring in Tuchanka/Rannoch in imports. Changing the whole face of societies doesn't sound viable to me. I have to think they're up to something entirely different for the next game.

Tuchanka and Rannoch would be just one level (if anything). I'm at least very sure that we're not getting any more multimission-arcs with them. Though I wonder about the state of species outside of that.

Then again, you know I don't view the Rannoch/Genophage choices to be what they seem (as in, they were virtual, and the real-universe events followed a more direct and singular outcome).

[SwobyJ]

Ironhandjustice wrote...

If they were smart, they should do a mid-quel where all these factors do not matter, minus in the end to show you some slides... and your final mission is to find the TRUE way to defeat the reapers. Shep should be indoctrinated and all be an illusion.

As stated on the MS comics, the crucible would be a trap, and if you are smart enought you'll be able to save your sheppard. Or kill him/her.

This would make the ending much easier to fix for BW and EA. I'm not particularly fan of IT, but on a commercial point of view, this would be the easier way to continue the franchise for them.

I put in bold FOR THEM, I'm not entering in the "ending swamp".

I don't think of it so simplistically (not to bash you, but talking about the concept).

-Defeated the Reapers? Yes we did. But they're not all gone.
-Shepard indoctrinated? Yes I suppose. But not in the way we think.
-All an illusion? Okay, sure, but an illusion based on memory.
-Crucible a trap? Alright, but by who? By Leviathans? By Reapers? Ultimately, by us? Maybe all 3?
-'Save' Shepard? How? Maybe in your RP, his proper place is in a Reaper? Maybe in your RP, his proper place is to make things wonderful for a whole 'galaxy' ?

I like IT and I'd roll with it for sure, but I think by now that Bioware has put enough hints in their games (including ME2..) and DLCs that IT is just part of the picture.

~~~

Anyway, I DO like the concept of both:
A)Every choice we made in the Shepard trilogy were real choices that affect things but
B)The choices were more isolated and confined than they first seem (which is why I like to speculate ME3 being a virtual dream while connected to a Reaper, and ME2 just being more plainly virtual purgatory while the real/clone Shepard is being a total a-hole and herding the galaxy towards a Reaping)

It would make everything in our trilogy mean things, but also give the writers the freedom to address our decisions on a more singular level. Fresh start, nothing in ME1-3 (except maybe Crucible and a bit more) is necessary for the upcoming story, but Bioware could insert some scenes and choices based on the trilogy throughout (just not connected to the main story).

(For example: Shepard in a romance with Miranda is pretty declarative that 'everything will change, but on our terms'. And that they will be meeting again. If we go Breath Destroy and meet Miranda, that would more fully address and conclude their romance but also have some potentially tough decisions around it. If we go Control, our Shepard just continues to enjoy his time on the Silversun Strip with 'Miranda', until he decides to Control and watch over everyone both in the virtual world and the physical one as a Reaper. Then whatever 'Shepard' gets up will be more of a AI-copy and will have to try harder to convince Miranda of what he is. If we go Synthesis, we ensure that the virtual world is ideal but kinda leave the situation on the ground without anyone identifying himself as Shepard, which would affect the relationship with Miranda there.
Confusing? Okay. I think we'd have to see if I'm right or just talking nonsense.)

Modifié par SwobyJ, 11 février 2014 - 06:20 .

[SwobyJ]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It would be cool to have one game where u can visit a thriving Rannoch, and another game where the verb have taken over?

That seems very inefficient - Bioware would have to write appropriate dialogue, make appropriate geth models, balance the geth's combat abilities to provide a fair challenge... for the vast majority of players to never see it.
Any of the big issues (Reapers dead/enforcing police state/synthesised) will have to be retconned in some form (e.g. "Synthesis is inevitable" means Bioware can go forward with a transhumanist plot in ME4 regardless of Shepard's choice)

I think we're in for a transhumanist plot, yes, but not the actually posthumanist idea of Synthesis.

[Ruadh]

'Did you buy a space hamster or not?' This is all that matters.

[eyezonlyii]

SwobyJ wrote...

Ironhandjustice wrote...

If they were smart, they should do a mid-quel where all these factors do not matter, minus in the end to show you some slides... and your final mission is to find the TRUE way to defeat the reapers. Shep should be indoctrinated and all be an illusion.

As stated on the MS comics, the crucible would be a trap, and if you are smart enought you'll be able to save your sheppard. Or kill him/her.

This would make the ending much easier to fix for BW and EA. I'm not particularly fan of IT, but on a commercial point of view, this would be the easier way to continue the franchise for them.

I put in bold FOR THEM, I'm not entering in the "ending swamp".

I don't think of it so simplistically (not to bash you, but talking about the concept).

-Defeated the Reapers? Yes we did. But they're not all gone.
-Shepard indoctrinated? Yes I suppose. But not in the way we think.
-All an illusion? Okay, sure, but an illusion based on memory.
-Crucible a trap? Alright, but by who? By Leviathans? By Reapers? Ultimately, by us? Maybe all 3?
-'Save' Shepard? How? Maybe in your RP, his proper place is in a Reaper? Maybe in your RP, his proper place is to make things wonderful for a whole 'galaxy' ?

I like IT and I'd roll with it for sure, but I think by now that Bioware has put enough hints in their games (including ME2..) and DLCs that IT is just part of the picture.

~~~

Anyway, I DO like the concept of both:
A)Every choice we made in the Shepard trilogy were real choices that affect things but
B)The choices were more isolated and confined than they first seem (which is why I like to speculate ME3 being a virtual dream while connected to a Reaper, and ME2 just being more plainly virtual purgatory while the real/clone Shepard is being a total a-hole and herding the galaxy towards a Reaping)

It would make everything in our trilogy mean things, but also give the writers the freedom to address our decisions on a more singular level. Fresh start, nothing in ME1-3 (except maybe Crucible and a bit more) is necessary for the upcoming story, but Bioware could insert some scenes and choices based on the trilogy throughout (just not connected to the main story).

(For example: Shepard in a romance with Miranda is pretty declarative that 'everything will change, but on our terms'. And that they will be meeting again. If we go Breath Destroy and meet Miranda, that would more fully address and conclude their romance but also have some potentially tough decisions around it. If we go Control, our Shepard just continues to enjoy his time on the Silversun Strip with 'Miranda', until he decides to Control and watch over everyone both in the virtual world and the physical one as a Reaper. Then whatever 'Shepard' gets up will be more of a AI-copy and will have to try harder to convince Miranda of what he is. If we go Synthesis, we ensure that the virtual world is ideal but kinda leave the situation on the ground without anyone identifying himself as Shepard, which would affect the relationship with Miranda there.
Confusing? Okay. I think we'd have to see if I'm right or just talking nonsense.)

This seems really interesing. I want to understand, I really do...message me or something with all the details pls?

[SwobyJ]

If you're no stranger to video games, I can put it this way (but I'll PM you stuff I've sent others):

ME1-3, especially ME2-3 ('Shepard 2.0') is the Light World. One where we're the hero, not the galaxy's doom.

ME4 will reveal that we were in the Light World (purgatory, afterlife, flux, eternity) all along, and we have to face the music in the Dark World (aka the real one, beyond the Reaper illusion). The Shepard defeated the Reaper Threat no matter what, sure, but now he's done as the Commander entity, and has a whole other mess to deal with. And now, he's not assisted by the world bending to his experience as the 'good guy', as he'll find that most of the problems this world is facing were done by his physical hands (the indoctrinated real person).

Revan 2.0, really. Then we decide to be more true to what we were (and indoctrinate others to fit our world view, even as 'good' as that view may be), doing so in full knowledge now (The Blue), or we persist in fighting for their free will no matter the consequences (The Red), or we try to transcend others beyond 'control' or 'freedom' regardless of the negative side effects on those who resist (The Green).

It's a mental, physical, virtual, spiritual journey. 'Mass'.
ME1 being an organic person in a mostly physical world. Slight organic indoctrination.
ME2 being a (more) organic person in a (more) virtual world. Virtual overlay of events, actual Cerberus control chip, some indoctrination.
ME3 being a (more) organic person in an outright virtual world. Virtual overlay of events, plus outright indoctrination, plus interfacing with the creation of a new Reaper while 'dreaming'.

ME4(+?) being a (more) synthetic person ('Shepard' or not) in an outright physical world. Reversal of what Commander Shepard experienced. Interfacing with a new Reaper that we control to an extent, and being the continuation of the Reaper experiment, and the search for the solution - for better or worse...

Wake up. Breathe.
There is no War. There is only the Harvest.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 11 février 2014 - 07:27 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

knaus86 wrote...
If the genesis system returns for me4, aside from the 3 main choices, what should be the main options to change the background of the game?

for me it's:

1. Rannoch/quarians saved/destroyed?
2. Geth saved/destroyed?
3. Genophage cured?

Those, along with the endings, would certainly have to be in there. I'd add the following:

4. Status of rachni (extinct or not), hanar (did Shep & Bau stop the indoctrinated ambassador), batarians (I'm assuming they're in even worse shape if Shepard doesn't bring Balak on-side in ME3)

5. Krogan leadership (Wrex / Wreav / Bakara, who's in charge and who survived the Tuchanka missions, though I guess Wrex is automatically dead if the geonphage is sabotaged and Wreav is dead if Wrex is alive)

6. Falere alive or dead (*if* the story involves Ardat-Yakshi at all, since she may now be the only known and non-criminal Ardat-Yakshi survivor)

7. Whether or not Javik was revived

8. Whether or not the Leviathans were discovered

Things I expect would be "standardized" via intentionally vague dialogue:

1. Aria eventually regains control of Omega, and conditions there are a little better but still somewhat dangerous and unpredictable. The dialogue would just work around whether or not Shepard was involved in kicking Cerberus out.

2. The surviving councilors retire after the war is over, so regardless of the ME1 decision and the Leng/Thane/Kirrahe situation, the turian, asari, and salarian councilors are all new characters.

3. Most of the civilians on the Citadel survived whatever happened at the end.

4. Quarian admirals don't appear in person and are only ever referred to as "the Admiralty Board" in general (to avoid having to account for Tali's status).

5. Some vague reference to Shepard's crew without getting too detailed about who's actually still alive, just enough to establish that they're all busy with something else and won't be appearing.

(I still think an actual sequel that would require all this backstory would be a bad idea, but that's how I'd probably approach it if I were in charge of such a project.)

Modifié par FlyingSquirrel, 11 février 2014 - 08:29 .