105 réponses à ce sujet

[MassEffect762]

Sten and Morrigan both. HYPOCRITES!



Stens cool though just little rough on the edges. Morrigan is a sacrifice of heart.

[code2501]

I actually pity Jowan. The first enchanter straight out uses him to make a political point to the chantry.

If the first enchanter simply stoped his escape plan when he knew about it and made him tranquil Jowan would have never had the chance to do ANY of the harmfull things he did.

Instead he plots to get Jowan and his girlfriend caught just so the chantry had to punish one of their own. Very machaevelian for someone who seems so "good" at first glance.

[MadCat221]

http://img23.imagesh...disapproves.jpg

Modifié par MadCat221, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:26 .

[Mikka-chan]

You can actually talk around Sten's insubordination- he makes a snarky comment, but if you handle it coolly, he backs down and doesn't try and fight you and you get a +2. Not bad. I was actually a bit worried- I knew it was coming, and I wasn't sure how it would go, but I had the picture of him with his two handed sword starting right on top of my mostly healing-specced Mage and it would be all stun, smack, smack, oops, dead.



He has a strange code of honor. He'll also protest you leaving the lost elf in the forest (at least, he does if that elf just, er, happens to find himself meetin' the dead book and all that) because he believes a warrior shouldn't rot alone. I find myself liking him... although I have no idea what to think about them. He protests things that say, Morg and Zev and Shale back, and he protests the things Ali and Lei and Wynne back. Definitely his own code, there.

[Original182]

Sten disapproves you releasing Jowan simply because he is a mage, nothing more. He hates anything to do with magic.
This is further proven when you attempt to save Connor by entering the Fade through the help of the First Enchanter, Sten would comment "Hmph. Magic.". 2 words, -10 approval. He wouldn't even give me a chance to rebuke him.
In his country, mages have their tongues cut out and are caged, being nothing more than animals. Even monkeys and beasts are ranked higher than mages to him. That's how low he thinks of mages.

Modifié par Original182, 28 novembre 2009 - 08:38 .

[Original182]

 I find myself liking him... although I have no idea what to think about them. He protests things that say, Morg and Zev and Shale back, and he protests the things Ali and Lei and Wynne back. Definitely his own code, there.

I think he protests things just for the sake of not wanting to agree with anyone from Ferelden.
Once his approval to you is high enough, he confesses that you are not like the other inhabitants of Ferelden. His country is actually planning to invade Ferelden, and he doesn't want to meet you in the battlefield.

So you could say he's just deliberately being difficult to Fereldenians, due to the history of conflicts between Ferelden and Qunari.

[Brimleydower]

Sten hates mages. A lot.

[maxernst]

Sten annoyed me as well. The weird thing was, my mage would have one snippy conversation with him after another and his approval would keep rising. Not to mention the fact that so often the answer to his questions is: Things work differently in Ferelden than where you're from. Why does this still surprise you?

[Bahlgan]

Sten, indeed, is a horribly hypocritical entity. One who realizes that it is IMPORTANT to gather an army for fighting the Blight, and yet instantly questions my motives travelling for the sacred ashes to save Eamon and gathering his knights to defend Ferelden. I wish there was some sort of option to which your character COULD fight him, in camp, and force him to either change his damn attitude, or die. He (and Shale) are some individuals who certainly have never had any sort of sense to carefully listen to others before judging them.

[ArawnNox]

I chalk it up to Sten's culture. He doesn't see himself as hypocritical, he sees himself as right. His is the only way that works and the rest of the world should abide by that. He's also an ideal soldier. He doesn't think, he just does. He acts and reacts. Notice he never really looks too far into the future on anything. All that's important to him is what is in front of him.

I happen to like Sten. Once you get past that, he's a very loyal person and you do have an effect on his outlook. Getting him his sword and befriending him puts a major dent in his "our way is the only way" philosophy.

He also has a really dry wit, which is pretty funny if you listen to him. Some of the right dialogue choices can bring about some sarcastic exchanges, which are downright hilarious.

[Sarah1281]

What makes you guys think Sten needs your leadership? His 'meltdown' was because losing his sword meant that he could never go home. In case you didn't notice, HE was the leader of the group that came to Ferelden.



And Sten dislikes having to do things that don't have an obvious immediate benefit. The Ashes? They may not even exist. He sees you wasting valuable time and he's hardly a politiican so that whole 'oh, we need to cure someone who will be able to hopefully do a lot of political things...' rationale is clearly not going to impress him. He's not right that we're not working to end the Blight but you can't blame him for his culture.

[Zjarcal]

In Sten's defense, he has a point about questioning the decision to go for the Urn of Sacred Ashes. While Eamon is a strong ally, Bann Teagan could've taken his role and be successful at it should Eamon had died. Sten doesn't know anything about Eamon and is his mind gathering the other armies is more important than wasting time searching for an Urn that may or may not exist (nobody is certain at that point) and that may or may not possess magical healing powers.



The duel with Sten is one of my favorite moments in the game. Especially if you do it after completing his personal quest, where he'll have a line where he says that he trusts you with his life.

[Xetirox]

Bahlgan wrote...

Sten, indeed, is a horribly hypocritical entity. One who realizes that it is IMPORTANT to gather an army for fighting the Blight, and yet instantly questions my motives travelling for the sacred ashes to save Eamon and gathering his knights to defend Ferelden. I wish there was some sort of option to which your character COULD fight him, in camp, and force him to either change his damn attitude, or die. He (and Shale) are some individuals who certainly have never had any sort of sense to carefully listen to others before judging them.

Why does he question your motives for looking for the ashes? Because you're chasing after a fairy tale, that's why. There is absolutely no reason to believe the Ashes still exist, that they're somewhere in Ferelden, and that they actually have healing powers that could cure Eamon. If the game didn't force you to go through with this quest, I wouldn't have taken it either. And to Sten, who isn't an Andrastian, the whole thing is even more absurd.

[FiliusMartis]

I see the main difference between what happened with Jowan and what happened with Sten is that broke trust. What Sten did was awful, but he never betrayed someone who trusted him. Jowan betrayed Irving and the Circle by dabbling in blood magic. He betrayed Lily by lying to her about his dabbling and thus endangering her. He betrayed a mage origin character by lying to him/her about blood magic. He betrayed Isolde by agreeing to teach Connor just to poison Eamon.

Sten may not know about all that, but he knows that Jowan is a blood mage, so he can figure out the first one. If the warden is a mage, that betrayal becomes apparent. his betrayal of Isolde and Eamon are also obvious. Sten's point is that Jowan is a backstabber and cannot be trusted. But d'aww... Poor Jowan.

There is absolutely no reason to believe the Ashes still exist, that they're somewhere in Ferelden, and that they actually have healing powers that could cure Eamon

I can see where you're coming from, and I'm inclined to agree if not for one small thing. Sten doesn't call you out on going after the ashes until you're in Haven. This is after you have already found a book of research which suggests that the ashes are in Ferelden and all. Furthermore, someone has gone through a lot of trouble to cover that information up, which may lend it credence in many eyes. So there is reason to believe; there is obviously something going on. There just isn't any proof.

Modifié par FiliusMartis, 13 août 2010 - 10:13 .

[Zjarcal]

Xetirox wrote...

If the game didn't force you to go through with this quest, I wouldn't have taken it either. And to Sten, who isn't an Andrastian, the whole thing is even more absurd.

I completely agree. This is why I always leave that quest for last. My PCs are always like "there's more important things to do than chase a fairy tale" and will only do it until there's nothing left to do and we are left with no choice but to do it so that Eamon can call for the Landsmeet.

[Xetirox]

FiliusMartis wrote...
I can see where you're coming from, and I'm inclined to agree if not for one small thing. Sten doesn't call you out on going after the ashes until you're in Haven. This is after you have already found a book of research which suggests that the ashes are in Ferelden and all. Furthermore, someone has gone through a lot of trouble to cover that information up, which may lend it credence in many eyes. So there is reason to believe; there is obviously something going on. There just isn't any proof.

So a book says the Ashes are in Ferelden, and someone is trying to cover some things up. And...? A book alone is not proof of anything, and neither is a secret conspiracy that, while dangerous, has absolutely nothing to do with the Blight. And neither lead one to believe that the Ashes really have magical healing powers. By the time you've gone to Haven, a backward Maker-forsaken village in the middle of nowhere, you still have nothing concrete to go by, and you don't even know if the informant you've been looking for (Genitivi) is even still alive. To a skeptical Sten, this is clearly the point where things have gone too far, and where your ability as a leader and Grey Warden should seriously be brought into question.

Modifié par Xetirox, 13 août 2010 - 10:40 .

[Yankee23]

I like Sten and never had much of a problem with his approval. He is a warrior, the blight needs to be stopped so we should stop it - simple. He wants to regain his honor, you offer him a chance to do so and he agrees to follow you. I think early in the game he doubts your ability to lead, but through his dialogue you can earn his respect and loyalty. He comes off as very one dimesional but I think he is a much deeper character. I often think he is testing you through the dialogue. Tell him he is outright wrong, wave him off, avoid discussion through humor or allow what he tells you to dictate your opinion and you loose approval. However, if you hear him out and explain your own opinions you can gain massive approval - even when his voiced response is dismissive. The confrontation at Haven is the final test - stand your ground, don't attempt to explain your actions, kick his but and he's yours. He is very much a mentor to my wardens and I think he's proud by the end of the game.

[frostajulie]

I can fully sympathize with Jowan in all respects but one. He knew even if he and Lilly got free that I his mage friend would bear all consequences alone. He was fine with that. Someone said he was a turd. I agree.

[Zjarcal]

frostajulie wrote...

I can fully sympathize with Jowan in all respects but one. He knew even if he and Lilly got free that I his mage friend would bear all consequences alone. He was fine with that. Someone said he was a turd. I agree.

That's if you get caught. If you don't then you can deny that you had anything to do with it once everyone realizes Jowan has escaped.

And at some point he seems to suggest that you should escape with him (or at least something to that avail) but your phylactery wasn't there.

[Yankee23]

Zjarcal wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I can fully sympathize with Jowan in all respects but one. He knew even if he and Lilly got free that I his mage friend would bear all consequences alone. He was fine with that. Someone said he was a turd. I agree.

That's if you get caught. If you don't then you can deny that you had anything to do with it once everyone realizes Jowan has escaped.

And at some point he seems to suggest that you should escape with him (or at least something to that avail) but your phylactery wasn't there.

How do you not get caught?

[Sarah1281]

Yankee23 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I can fully sympathize with Jowan in all respects but one. He knew even if he and Lilly got free that I his mage friend would bear all consequences alone. He was fine with that. Someone said he was a turd. I agree.

That's if you get caught. If you don't then you can deny that you had anything to do with it once everyone realizes Jowan has escaped.

And at some point he seems to suggest that you should escape with him (or at least something to that avail) but your phylactery wasn't there.

How do you not get caught?

In the game, of course, you can't avoid it but that hardly means that the characters know this. The goal was for them to not get caught, after all. Once caught, the only way Jowan was able to escape was through blood magic Lily didn't know about and he had no intention of admitting to.

[Zjarcal]

Yankee23 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I can fully sympathize with Jowan in all respects but one. He knew even if he and Lilly got free that I his mage friend would bear all consequences alone. He was fine with that. Someone said he was a turd. I agree.

That's if you get caught. If you don't then you can deny that you had anything to do with it once everyone realizes Jowan has escaped.

And at some point he seems to suggest that you should escape with him (or at least something to that avail) but your phylactery wasn't there.

How do you not get caught?

I mean hypothetically speaking. You don't know that the whole plan will go kablooey at the end. It's feasible that if they had been more careful they could avoided being caught.

So in that respect, what was said earlier that Jowan doesn't care that the mage PC will be the one carrying the consequences isn't entirely true.

EDIT: Sarah ninja'd me to explain my own point...

Modifié par Zjarcal, 13 août 2010 - 11:19 .

[Yankee23]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I can fully sympathize with Jowan in all respects but one. He knew even if he and Lilly got free that I his mage friend would bear all consequences alone. He was fine with that. Someone said he was a turd. I agree.

That's if you get caught. If you don't then you can deny that you had anything to do with it once everyone realizes Jowan has escaped.

And at some point he seems to suggest that you should escape with him (or at least something to that avail) but your phylactery wasn't there.

How do you not get caught?

In the game, of course, you can't avoid it but that hardly means that the characters know this. The goal was for them to not get caught, after all. Once caught, the only way Jowan was able to escape was through blood magic Lily didn't know about and he had no intention of admitting to.

Oh, I get it. Just read that again. Jowan wasn't expecting to get caught so didn't intend to leave his friend holding the bag. Duh!  Except your the one with the "permission slip" for the rod of fire.

[Zjarcal]

 Well, you could always use the rod of fire to burn the permission slip...