105 réponses à ce sujet

[Yankee23]

Bahlgan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I was iffy on Sten until he said:
I never denied that I failed. To the guardian.

Just the way he said it was awsome, and revealed how much he loathed what he did.

That is perhaps the most humble thing I ever heard him say, but I will give him due credit.

As soon as he mentioned to Alistair (after becoming King) that his race is going to enjoy plundering Ferelden when the time came (this was through a conversation) I lost most of my personal respect for him.. Again..

If I am thinking of the same conversation that's not quite how it goes. Sten explains to Alistair (after he mentions the possibility of negotiations now that he is king) that the qunari do not negotiate. When Alistair points out that they have negotiated treaties before and implies that the qunari would keep them since they value honor, Sten explains that they value the honor of qunari. He never says they would enjoy plundering anything. It's a statement on the values of a nation. I never took it as reflecting on Sten personally.

[maxernst]

Sarah1281 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

HUGE difference between Sten and Jowan.

Jowan, after thinking he might be made tranquil, tries to run.  He steals his phylactery so he can't be caught.  He resorts to Blood Magic.  When caught, he bargains for his life, and agrees to help poison someone.  He makes excuses for his behavior when you find him in the cell.

Sten kills a family, then calmly stands there and lets himself get arrested and thrown in a cage.  He doesn't try to escape.  He doesn't try to get out of the cage (which, btw, always looks pretty damn flimsy to me.  He doesn't try to attack passing people.  Hell, he doesn't even seem to WANT to be let out when you suggest it to him.  He's perfectly willing to be punished for what he did.

So, there are the differences.  Keep in mind also that, as a Qunari, Sten thinks a mages place IS in a cage - so to him, Jowan is right where he belongs, regardless of what he did before that.

Also, Jowan's blood magic appears to be the reason that they're threatening to make him tranquil in the first place.

You know, I expected that when I played the mage origin that I would feel more sympathetic to Jowan but I didn't.  It really pissed me off that he lied to me in order to gain my help. My mage hated the chantry and would have helped him anyway, but the point is...he lied.  And I had to go into the fade to intimidate a demon to learn blood magic when he could have just taught me himself!  I would have really liked to learn that teleportation spell that got him out of the tower.

Modifié par maxernst, 14 août 2010 - 03:01 .

[Bahlgan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So what if they happen to exist? There is absolutely no reason to believe that they do until you find them and all of Sten's protests come before.

I most certainly can if he tries to kill me in order to take command. His arrogance will be his fall. If it is possible for me to end the Werewolf curse, find a blade of his that could have been stolen by the darkspawn, FIND THE ANVIL OF THE VOID, and such, then finding the Urn of the Sacred Ashes is VERY so possible. Tell Sten to consider THAT before he decides to jock up on his high and mighty attitude.

[maxernst]

Sarah1281 wrote...

What makes you guys think Sten needs your leadership? His 'meltdown' was because losing his sword meant that he could never go home. In case you didn't notice, HE was the leader of the group that came to Ferelden.

And Sten dislikes having to do things that don't have an obvious immediate benefit. The Ashes? They may not even exist. He sees you wasting valuable time and he's hardly a politiican so that whole 'oh, we need to cure someone who will be able to hopefully do a lot of political things...' rationale is clearly not going to impress him. He's not right that we're not working to end the Blight but you can't blame him for his culture.

You can argue about the ashes (and I totally agree that Teagan should be able to take up Eamon's mantle under the circumstances--the cut scene with Loghain shows that Teagan commands enough respect to make it work), but Sten also got pissed off with me for going to Orzammar.  Yes, the Archdemon is in the south and we're going north.  Do you really think that the half-dozen of us should try taking on the entire darkspawn horde?

[Sarah1281]

Bahlgan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So what if they happen to exist? There is absolutely no reason to believe that they do until you find them and all of Sten's protests come before.

I most certainly can if he tries to kill me in order to take command. His arrogance will be his fall. If it is possible for me to end the Werewolf curse, find a blade of his that could have been stolen by the darkspawn, FIND THE ANVIL OF THE VOID, and such, then finding the Urn of the Sacred Ashes is VERY so possible. Tell Sten to consider THAT before he decides to jock up on his high and mighty attitude.

I don't see what your laundry list of accomplishments has to do with whether or not a legend is true. If Sten believed that the Urn existed but you couldn't find it, I can see why you'd be upset. If you'll notice, though, the werewolf curse, his sword, and the Anvil are all things that have, in the past, been known to exist. The Ashes having healing powers? There is no reason to think that. How awesome you are has nothing to do with whether something exists or not.

[Sarah1281]

Bahlgan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

How could a common soldier cancel an invasion his leaders are planning? Isn't it enough that he warns you? What else is he supposed to do? 

I thought you to be a little more creative than that. Last I checked, Sten was an elite Qunari and one who could have held the fate of Ferelden by reporting all the good he found in Ferelden. Besides, what makes you think he is a common soldier anyway? He could be one of the Arishok's personal advisors as well. You think they would send mere Qunari farmers against a Blight?

You're doing it again. 'Common soldiers' =/= farmer. Qunari women are farmers anyway. The Arishok decides to go to war. Sten is not an Arishok. He can give his impression of Ferelden, certainly, but that's more a debriefing than asking him to decide on their foreign policy. The most he can do is lie and say that they'll get their asses kicked but even that wouldn't stop them forever, they'd just need to prepare more.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 14 août 2010 - 03:16 .

[TJPags]

Bahlgan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So what if they happen to exist? There is absolutely no reason to believe that they do until you find them and all of Sten's protests come before.

I most certainly can if he tries to kill me in order to take command. His arrogance will be his fall. If it is possible for me to end the Werewolf curse, find a blade of his that could have been stolen by the darkspawn, FIND THE ANVIL OF THE VOID, and such, then finding the Urn of the Sacred Ashes is VERY so possible. Tell Sten to consider THAT before he decides to jock up on his high and mighty attitude.

Look, the Ashes are like Noah's Ark to most people - a religious story there is no evidence for.

If you were in Sten's shoes, and someone said "let's go find Noah's Ark so we can use a piece of wood from it to save this guy who MIGHT be able to help us a little", would that seem like a good idea?

Sten's a man of action - there'e a threat?  Face it, and end it.  In his mind, the Darkspawn are the threat, Loghain is the threat.  Kill one or the other, not go chasing fairy takes in the hope that it MIGHT be real, that we MIGHT find it in time, that it MIGHT save Eamon, and that he MIGHT help us.

Do you do it?  Of course you do - it's a game, you're the hero, and that's the next step.

And did you really find the Anvil, kill the werewolves, and find his sword before ever going to Redliffe?

[Dean_the_Young]

Personally, I like both characters, so this whole 'but this one is so much worse' contest is kind of null for me. They are different characters with different manners, but at heart they are both good men.



Jowan is a survivor, but he tries to be a good one as best he can. He'll compromise public virtues to survive... but then, so do the Wardens. Repeatedly. It isn't even as if he offered to poison Eamon in the first place, since it was the offer made to him by, remember, one of the most respected and honorable men in Ferelden. Jowan is a guy who, in trying to survive, just digs his hole deeper, but digging is his only hope of escape as well. He doesn't want to do bad things: I don't think anyone can seriously argue he ever intended to use those blood mage powers after he escaped into obscurity. He's just a karmic rag doll who finds himself in increasingly bad situations he wants to get out of.





Sten is a different person entirely. Besides mannerisms and style, if there's a single great difference between Sten and Jowan, it's that while Jowan's code of ethics is regularly compromised in survival, Sten's Code guides his life. The only time he breaks it is, as he freely admits, an extreme and uncharacteristic moment of personal weakness.Otherwise, he's as faithful to his morality as he can be, which is pretty damn reliable. Sten is a person with a different morality than you, and he judges you by it. He isn't after your help, your approval, or even your agreement: he knows his moral code and is comfortable with it, whether you like it or not. That sort of moral fortitude is rare indeed, and well worth respecting even if you don't like just what those morals are.

[Bahlgan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Bahlgan wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So what if they happen to exist? There is absolutely no reason to believe that they do until you find them and all of Sten's protests come before.

I most certainly can if he tries to kill me in order to take command. His arrogance will be his fall. If it is possible for me to end the Werewolf curse, find a blade of his that could have been stolen by the darkspawn, FIND THE ANVIL OF THE VOID, and such, then finding the Urn of the Sacred Ashes is VERY so possible. Tell Sten to consider THAT before he decides to jock up on his high and mighty attitude.

I don't see what your laundry list of accomplishments has to do with whether or not a legend is true. If Sten believed that the Urn existed but you couldn't find it, I can see why you'd be upset. If you'll notice, though, the werewolf curse, his sword, and the Anvil are all things that have, in the past, been known to exist. The Ashes having healing powers? There is no reason to think that. How awesome you are has nothing to do with whether something exists or not.

Finding the Anvil of the Void just merely proves that your claim that the ashes don't exist is moot. Just because no one currently believes in the ashes, much like the dwarves stopped believing that the anvil existed, doesn't mean it doesn't actually exist. I don't even know what your point in arguing with me rests in right now, seeing as that we did find the ashes, and they did heal Arl Eamon. WHAT is your point in debate with this specific topic? Besides, The Anvil of the Void posed the same amount of importance, or lack thereof, to his priority. Because of this, Sten is a hypocrite for believing the anvil can be found, but not the urn.

Look, the Ashes are like Noah's Ark to most people - a religious story there is no evidence for.

If you were in Sten's shoes, and someone said "let's go find Noah's Ark so we can use a piece of wood from it to save this guy who MIGHT be able to help us a little", would that seem like a good idea?

Sten's a man of action - there'e a threat?  Face it, and end it.  In his mind, the Darkspawn are the threat, Loghain is the threat.  Kill one or the other, not go chasing fairy takes in the hope that it MIGHT be real, that we MIGHT find it in time, that it MIGHT save Eamon, and that he MIGHT help us.

Well then, I suppose it is only fair to treat Sten as a force of nature. In case he ever tries to assert himself over my authority, it will end with his life wasted on the camp site then. Mother Nature doesn't sin, but that doesn't mean I am gonna allow it to take me over.

Do you do it?  Of course you do - it's a game, you're the hero, and that's the next step.

That's what heroes do, they try to protect the people. It's what Grey Wardens do; they are also guardians of men, as Wynne stated. To passively leave a man behind without truly knowing whether or not that man/woman could be saved is murder, and I am not going to live with Arl Eamon's blood on my hands just because of some "Sten" telling me HE doesn't believe they exist. Who is HE to tell the Warden that he doesn't know what he is doing?

And did you really find the Anvil, kill the werewolves, and find his sword before ever going to Redliffe

Actually, no, I went to Redcliffe first in the story because Alistair thought it would be best to check up immediately in raising the army through him first. Went to Orzammar, Circle Tower, Brecilian Forest, Haven, in that order.

He can give his impression of Ferelden, certainly, but that's more a debriefing than asking him to decide on their foreign policy. The most he can do is lie and say that they'll get their asses kicked but even that wouldn't stop them forever, they'd just need to prepare more.

I am sure that the arishok will listen to Sten, being the only Qunari of his personally reqested Beresaad. If the arishok is not willing to listen, then so be it, but I am sure Ferelden will give Seheron quite a hell of a ride.

Modifié par Bahlgan, 14 août 2010 - 08:46 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Bahlgan wrote...


Finding the Anvil of the Void just merely proves that your claim that the ashes don't exist is moot. Just because no one currently believes in the ashes, much like the dwarves stopped believing that the anvil existed, doesn't mean it doesn't actually exist. I don't even know what your point in arguing with me rests in right now, seeing as that we did find the ashes, and they did heal Arl Eamon. WHAT is your point in debate with this specific topic? Besides, The Anvil of the Void posed the same amount of importance, or lack thereof, to his priority. Because of this, Sten is a hypocrite for believing the anvil can be found, but not the urn.

You misunderstand her point. The point isn't that one exists and the other doesn't: future hindsight means nothing in the past.

The distinction between the Anvil of the Void and the Sacred Ashes is that one is a proven, known historic artifact and the other is not. Something lost to time but known to exist in some general area is a far more plausible, believable, and realistic goal than a legend that no one knows even exists. The Anvil is a proven lost object, while the Ashes aren't known to be an object at all.

And, recall, you weren't even looking for the Anvil in the first place. You were looking for some proof of Branka, whether alive or dead, to decide the Assembly. Branka is far more real, reasonable, and realistic goal than either item.

I am sure that the arishok will listen to Sten, being the only Qunari of his personally reqested Beresaad. If the arishok is not willing to listen, then so be it, but I am sure Ferelden will give Seheron quite a hell of a ride.

Only surviving Qunari of a specific team, which wasn't even an invasion-planning team. Sten was there to learn of the Blight, not to spy and scout for the Qunari invasion.

Ferelden can certainly give as much of a ride as it wants, but that's a topic and an outcome for another story.

[Bahlgan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You misunderstand her point. The point isn't that one exists and the other doesn't: future hindsight means nothing in the past.

The distinction between the Anvil of the Void and the Sacred Ashes is that one is a proven, known historic artifact and the other is not. Something lost to time but known to exist in some general area is a far more plausible, believable, and realistic goal than a legend that no one knows even exists. The Anvil is a proven lost object, while the Ashes aren't known to be an object at all.

But I do not understand what makes anyone think people have NO right to search for the sacred ashes, cause that's what I am getting from Sarah, and now from you too. The Anvil of the Void might not have existed at that point either. The anvil might have been destroyed (we know it wasn't through metagaming) but still, you couldn't tell immediately that it wasn't destroyed. Both objects could have easily been lost, yet my Warden decided to go find them anyway. And look what happened? Success!! 

Only surviving Qunari of a specific team, which wasn't even an invasion-planning team. Sten was there to learn of the Blight, not to spy and scout for the Qunari invasion.

Ferelden can certainly give as much of a ride as it wants, but that's a topic and an outcome for another story.

The arishok, I doubt, would send the Beresaad to investigate the Blight AND THEN later to send a spy team. Who is to say that the Beresaad wouldn't be killing two birds with one stone? I can certainly think it possible that the Arishok would send in spy teams to learn, from the inside, how best to occupy Ferelden anyway.

Modifié par Bahlgan, 15 août 2010 - 06:01 .

[CalJones]

Sten seemed to indicate that a Qunari invasion was inevitable at some point in the future, but not that they were actively planning one at that particular moment. He does, after all, say that he hopes he won't live to see that day.

I guess we will only find out if such a thing happens in a future DA game or expansion.

[Sarah1281]

But I do not understand what makes anyone think people have NO right to search for the sacred ashes, cause that's what I am getting from Sarah, and now from you too. The Anvil of the Void might not have existed at that point either. The anvil might have been destroyed (we know it wasn't through metagaming) but still, you couldn't tell immediately that it wasn't destroyed. Both objects could have easily been lost, yet my Warden decided to go find them anyway. And look what happened? Success!!

We're not saying you don't have a right to look. We are saying that it doesn't matter how awesome your Warden is as that doesn't affect whether it exists or not so you could be the second coming of Andraste or more pathetic than Jory and it wouldn't change whether or not the Ashes existed so your skill would not, at all, affect whether Sten believed in the Ashes. Sten happens to not believe in them or want to go on an epic journey to cure one man. He thinks it's a waste of time and if the option was there for you to refuse and for Teagan to call the Landsmeet (which, game-mechanics aside, he could have done although it may have weakened their position in the Landsmeet further) then it very well might have regardless of whether or not the Ashes existed.



You appear to blame Sten for not believing that they exist when virtuously no one else does either. That's kind of ridiculous. It's like people today not believing in the Holy Grail. It MIGHT exist but if someone's dying and the only way to save them is by finding it...sure, you and a bunch of others could go off searching for it and hope that, if you find the artifact, it actually does what it's advertised to do but if someone travelling with you didn't believe it would work then would it really be that unbelievable?

The arishok, I doubt, would send the Beresaad to investigate the Blight AND THEN later to send a spy team. Who is to say that the Beresaad wouldn't be killing two birds with one stone? I can certainly think it possible that the Arishok would send in spy teams to learn, from the inside, how best to occupy Ferelden anyway.

Yeah, and what would you suggest Sten said?



1) The truth - he probably does this anyway and so if the Arishok decides to invade then they'll have accurate information

2) Ferelden is stronger than it really is - the Arishok won't shy away from attacking but may delay it as they build up their forces so they think they can beat Ferelden and the country is utterly crushed.

3) Ferelden is weaker than it really is - the Arishok invades sooner with a force that may be repelled but the invasion will still happen.



How would you suggest he stopped it? Saying that they've all convereted to the Qun? The Arishok would probably need proof. Telling them not to invade? Why would they listen to his opinion when it's not his job to decide these things?

[Yankee23]

Bahlgan wrote...

But I do not understand what makes anyone think people have NO right to search for the sacred ashes, cause that's what I am getting from Sarah, and now from you too. The Anvil of the Void might not have existed at that point either. The anvil might have been destroyed (we know it wasn't through metagaming) but still, you couldn't tell immediately that it wasn't destroyed. Both objects could have easily been lost, yet my Warden decided to go find them anyway. And look what happened? Success!! 

The point is not that nobody has the right to search for the ashes. The point is that nobody even knows if the ashes EVER existed. Before actually finding them, nobody knows if they exist, if they are even in Haven or if they would even be useful if you found them. In Sten's opinion, finding the ashes is not necessary to gaining armies or fighting the blight. To him it a waste of time because even if you find find them they gain you nothing that you couldn't have gotten anyway.

The warden does not go searching for the anvil, they go to find Branka which is the ONLY way to gain the dwarven armies. Once you find Branka, she traps you in the deep roads forcing you to go find the anvil if you want to get out.

Of course the warden finds both, the sun shines out of his/her butt. That doesn't mean everyone has to agree with thier choice all the time.

[Bahlgan]

CalJones wrote...

Sten seemed to indicate that a Qunari invasion was inevitable at some point in the future, but not that they were actively planning one at that particular moment. He does, after all, say that he hopes he won't live to see that day.
I guess we will only find out if such a thing happens in a future DA game or expansion.

Yea, I do too remember hearing Sten say "I will not look to find you on the battlefield." This would be in case he DID live to see the so called invasion live to its fruition.

You appear to blame Sten for not believing that they exist when virtuously no one else does either

I don't care what he thinks quite frankly, he is not that important enough to be making those kinds of decisions FOR my Warden!

No, MY problem is that Sten (like the templars from the crusades) forces his belief on me and, according to some, threatens the Warden of killing me and taking over the group. THE GALL!!

Modifié par Bahlgan, 15 août 2010 - 06:46 .

[Bahlgan]

Yankee23 wrote...

The warden does not go searching for the anvil, they go to find Branka which is the ONLY way to gain the dwarven armies. Once you find Branka, she traps you in the deep roads forcing you to go find the anvil if you want to get out.

Of course the warden finds both, the sun shines out of his/her butt. That doesn't mean everyone has to agree with thier choice all the time.

Makes my Warden all the more awesome then for being able to find both 

[TJPags]

Bahlgan wrote...

You appear to blame Sten for not believing that they exist when virtuously no one else does either

I don't care what he thinks quite frankly, he is not that important enough to be making those kinds of decisions FOR my Warden!

No, MY problem is that Sten (like the templars from the crusades) forces his belief on me and, according to some, threatens the Warden of killing me and taking over the group. THE GALL!!

And Sten doesn't much care what you think at that point, which is why he challenges you.  He doesn't think you're important enough to be making those kinds of decisions for him.

He doesn't force his belief on you - quite the opposite, both in the game mechanics and in the way you're describing your opinion - YOU force YOUR belief on HIM.

Seriously, if he disbelief is that big of a problem for you, why would you have brought him with you?  Leave him at camp.

[Bahlgan]

TJPags wrote...

He doesn't force his belief on you - quite the opposite, both in the game mechanics and in the way you're describing your opinion - YOU force YOUR belief on HIM.

Seriously, if he disbelief is that big of a problem for you, why would you have brought him with you?  Leave him at camp.

I am not forcing anything on him. He is welcome to leave at any time, yet he insists on stealing command.

Role playing in my story dictates that he is very oppressive. He ventures to talk to me. Anyway, I leave him at camp and he doesn't participate in anything during that chapter except to help my Warden slay the villagers once our cover is blown.

[Giggles_Manically]

Yes how dare Sten express his world view around the warden...

just like every other companion does.

[Sarah1281]

Bahlgan wrote...

TJPags wrote...

He doesn't force his belief on you - quite the opposite, both in the game mechanics and in the way you're describing your opinion - YOU force YOUR belief on HIM.

Seriously, if he disbelief is that big of a problem for you, why would you have brought him with you?  Leave him at camp.

I am not forcing anything on him. He is welcome to leave at any time, yet he insists on stealing command.

Role playing in my story dictates that he is very oppressive. He ventures to talk to me. Anyway, I leave him at camp and he doesn't participate in anything during that chapter except to help my Warden slay the villagers once our cover is blown.

So your personal RP choices that don't affect anyone else's game are leading you to make blanket statements like he's a hypocrite? 

[Dean_the_Young]

Bahlgan wrote...

But I do not understand what makes anyone think people have NO right to search for the sacred ashes, cause that's what I am getting from Sarah, and now from you too. The Anvil of the Void might not have existed at that point either. The anvil might have been destroyed (we know it wasn't through metagaming) but still, you couldn't tell immediately that it wasn't destroyed. Both objects could have easily been lost, yet my Warden decided to go find them anyway. And look what happened? Success!! 

Sarah's already made the point that it's not about whether you have the right or not: that was never the issue. I'll just, again, point out that you weren't on a quest to find the Anvil, you were on the quest to find some proof of a Paragon, dead or alive, to achieve a realistic short-term goal (getting your king on the throne).

The arishok, I doubt, would send the Beresaad to investigate the Blight AND THEN later to send a spy team. Who is to say that the Beresaad wouldn't be killing two birds with one stone? I can certainly think it possible that the Arishok would send in spy teams to learn, from the inside, how best to occupy Ferelden anyway.

Why not? Sten was part of a three man team of soldiers: hardly ideal for spying or espionage of an entire country. By the time an invasion was launched, decades likely would have passed.

[TJPags]

Bahlgan wrote...

TJPags wrote...

He doesn't force his belief on you - quite the opposite, both in the game mechanics and in the way you're describing your opinion - YOU force YOUR belief on HIM.

Seriously, if he disbelief is that big of a problem for you, why would you have brought him with you?  Leave him at camp.

I am not forcing anything on him. He is welcome to leave at any time, yet he insists on stealing command.

Role playing in my story dictates that he is very oppressive. He ventures to talk to me. Anyway, I leave him at camp and he doesn't participate in anything during that chapter except to help my Warden slay the villagers once our cover is blown.

Role playing dictates that he is oppressive?  You mean, you play the game to MAKE him that way, then complain about it? 

And he ventures to talk to you?  Just like every other character in your group does?  You mean, he wants to know something about the person he's following, and what their plan is?  The NERVE of the man!!!

And, if you leave him at camp, he can't participate in anything in Haven.   He can only do that if he's there.

Yea, I'm just really not getting your complaints here, because you're not making any sense, to me.

[frostajulie]

Zjarcal wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I can fully sympathize with Jowan in all respects but one. He knew even if he and Lilly got free that I his mage friend would bear all consequences alone. He was fine with that. Someone said he was a turd. I agree.

That's if you get caught. If you don't then you can deny that you had anything to do with it once everyone realizes Jowan has escaped.

And at some point he seems to suggest that you should escape with him (or at least something to that avail) but your phylactery wasn't there.

How do you not get caught?

I mean hypothetically speaking. You don't know that the whole plan will go kablooey at the end. It's feasible that if they had been more careful they could avoided being caught.

So in that respect, what was said earlier that Jowan doesn't care that the mage PC will be the one carrying the consequences isn't entirely true.

EDIT: Sarah ninja'd me to explain my own point...

Actually it is entirely true.  Jowan knows your phylactery is gone  but he still cajoles you into helping him.  He might hope you get away with it but he is solely concerned with his own need to be free and doesn't care about the PC at all.  Whether you leave with him or not the templars will come after you.  Jowan knows this.  His complete lack of concern is further evidenced when things go south and he leaves you.  If he had asked my character to join him at least made the offer it would have redeemed him a little but instead the douchebag bales without any thought to his friend who risked everything.

He is a total turd.

As for Sten I never seem to get him to say much.  How do you get him to open up.  I have done redcliffe and the circle tower with him in my party but he never says anything about them and I find him quite boring as a character.  I always do his personal quest but I can't stand him in my party.  How do you get him to talk?