1638 réponses à ce sujet

[78stonewobble]

3DandBeyond wrote...

See here is the crux of the issue with assets and EMS.  I firmly believe they could have created a system where there were "correct" choices.  I'd consider them correct if in total character with the Shepard you were playing and the offsets could have worked based upon that personality as well and not arbitrary numbers given to things that should not have needed to be found.  Really, the galaxy is on fire, did Shepard need to tell ANYONE that it was?

Here's how I figured offsets could work in a nutshell.  Say a renegade just likes to hurry through things without thinking of the consequences (just like in ME2 where you get the choice to push the guy out of the window).  This could negatively impact things that required consideration or deep thinking, but could positively impact something that required swift action.  It's just that each such decision would also lead then to a different outcome in some way.  Maybe it means that some things didn't get done that needed to be done.  Sort of like in ME2 where on the suicide mission it's possible to lose a lot of the crew if you take too long to get to them on the Collector Base.

The whole problem here is that BW decided that nothing should be canon--this freaking statement makes me want to throw up since they did make many things canon.  The endings of ME1 and ME2 are full on canon because they have to be.  Liara is your friend or stalker or lover, no matter what because that's canon.  They could have made certain decisions create different scenarios and a story so that it was your actions and decisions that led to the endings and not a bunch of random numbers.  This in my mind could have led to things feeling more like they naturally happen.  Endings would evolve from this--Shepard could live and watch as everything s/he loves is destroyed because of something that was not done.  Or Shepard could die, the reapers could be destroyed, and everyone could live and end up mourning him/her--without the reapers existing as co-dependents such as in control and synthesis.  But BW decided to funnel everyone into the same endings no matter what.  You don't even have to play much of ME3, nor do you have to play ME1 or 2 to get the same endings someone who played it all got.  To me, that makes it pretty much senseless as they have it.

I firmly believe it would have been much better to see or use the assets at least, but also to make certain successes or failures dependent upon the decisions and actions involved.  That's not saying that a renegade action would always be wrong and a paragon always be right-it's just saying that outcomes should have been more related to what you did or didn't do, not ridiculous fetch quests. 

I certainly would have preferred some choices throughout the games to matter a great deal, maybe even to the point of some choices meaning defeat in me3 no matter what else you did.

I suppose it was "too late" for that... Ie. the player deserves some way of knowing that the choice he's about to make can loose her/him the game or just big flashing lights that say BIG DECISION! and that just wasn't there in me1 and me2.

The choices would also have to fit the universe and the established races, make literary sense and be balanced between paragon and renegade.

A side effect of the story not being worked out fully in advance (which would also have been a major undertaking) I guess.

PS: I also don't mind there being a complete canon story arc. I'd view that as biowares take on the story, while the other story arcs we create are our interpretations or how we'd have done in the same shoes. A multiverse of sorts

I see the ems system as a necessary compromise, that wasn't well executed.

And... you know I wasn't too happy about the ending(s) either.

[katamuro]

I have to say when introducing such a huge enemy in ME1 as Reapers they should have worked out at least basic plotlines. Its crazy to rewrite certain things after the fact and hope it sticks. If they introduced something monumental like galactic extinction cycle they should have thought of a way to end it before it became one of those "last minute" things. Also the whole thing with trying to give Reapers some higher purpose was a mistake, trying to humanize them was a mistake. They should have let the Reapers be the huge monsters that are killing everybody for some kind of weird purpose.
They could have easily let the "extinction cycle" be how Reapers reproduce and maybe they genuinely think that being in Reaper form is the only way forward. None of that "we are saving the galaxy" crap.

The EMS system while crude still did work. It let us know how successfully we are doing the job of bringing the galaxy together. The huge letdown was that all those resources that you simply scan around dont even make much appearance in the final battle. It could have been designed much better but I guess they run out of time. After all 2 years is not nearly enough time to make a game the size and scope of Mass Effect. Damn EA and their tight schedules.

But even with all the flaws, problems and missed opportunities I cant help but like ME universe and franchise in general. It is one of rare vibrant and plausible fictional universes which can give rise to all kinds of adventures.

[IoCaster]

I don't hate the game and honestly I wasn't particularly disappointed by it either. Following the complete derail that happened in ME2 I didn't have any expectation that they were going to be able to write a good story. Too much Cerberus and TIM in ME2 and not enough Reapers. It was almost inevitable that they would have to resort to a Reaper off-switch in ME3. Of course, I didn't foresee how badly they would botch such an easy asspull and get out of jail card. 

katamuro wrote...
It could have been designed much better but I guess they run out of time. After all 2 years is not nearly enough time to make a game the size and scope of Mass Effect. Damn EA and their tight schedules.

I don't agree considering that they didn't seem to know how to end the story after working on the trilogy for as many years as they did. They started the series before EA bought them. I also doubt that it came down to lack of resources. I'd be more inclined to believe that poor planning and management of resources caused a lot of the issues with the final product. Maybe if they had focused on gameplay instead of spending so much time and effort on sh!tty cutscenes they could have kept things within budget and on schedule.

I recently played the Sur'Kesh level again and it's an incredibly annoying mission to play. There is no natural flow to the combat in that level. Control was constantly being yanked out of my hands to display a seemingly endless stream of meaningless and unnecessary cutscenes. I really didn't need to see Kirrahe do a pirouette or Cerberus placing a turret or my character pushing in a piston to restore power or my squad backing away in fear when the Atlas dropped in. It's a completely awkward transition when they position my character in cover and start the action before giving control back. Too much emphasis on presentation and cinematics and not enough on gameplay. Here's an idea BioWare, let me play the game and stop getting in my way with crappy cartoon cutscenes. <_< 

[katamuro]

StreetMagic wrote...

Daemul wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

katamuro wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

katamuro wrote...

My bad I was reading the optimal walkthrough thinking it of as default one. clicked the wrong option. Oh well then they definitely have to go for most paragon option otherwise way too much dead people.

I'd like them to do that too (wish they did that for ME2>ME3 myself), but it doesn't fit their pattern so far. I don't know why they want it this way.

Maybe to push people to improve upon it?

I don't think it has any positive effect like that. It just makes the "foundation"/default template for how they tell the story much more dreary. For example, if squad deaths are written as default, then they never amount to much more than cameos again. Wrex and some of the ME2 squaddies get relegated to this status. None of the players' actions can improve upon it, no matter how perfect their import is.

I remember listening to a podcast, Giantbomb I think it was, where they said that Bioware had asked them and other reviewers to review ME3 from the perspective of new players playing the game with the default choices. Having played the default choices myself I can see why they asked them to do this, the game and story were built around default. 

I wonder if they did the same kind of research for old players. Like really asked them if it reflected their previous "world state". I don't think it does, personally. These games shouldn't be built around a "default" no more than a third part in a movie trilogy should be taken out of context. Imagine if studio execs tried to make Return of the King enjoyable as a standalone flick. It's pointless.

Yeah which is why their statements that ME3 is and ideal place to jump in was just stupid. It was a bad idea to force it to be a standalone game, it was a worse idea to make it a self-contained game. Basically most of the decisions accounted for by the ending only really happen in ME3. THe rest are just cosmetic differences. 

Creating a game trilogy where "choice" and "consequences" of the previous actions was always one of the core elements and then suddenly cutting the third game off from the first two just for the sake of the "new" players who would never play the first two games. It was probably some kind of marketing thing thought up by EA managers same as the 2 year production time. Look what has happened to Call of Duty franschise, it is now a joke with the early releases, built on the same principles with ever increasing amount of ridicilousness has made it from a refreshing game of the first Modern Warfare to the badly written joke of Ghosts. 

[SpamBot2000]

Do I still hate ME3?

Yes, I do.

[marcelo caldas]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Disappointed, bitter apathy more like. It has its great moments, but by and large, its an incarnate realization of the decline of BioWare in general.

I'd say DA2 and ME3 are the "incarnate realization of the decline of BioWare in general".

Responding OP's question: I never hated it, ME Trilogy are the best games I ever played, on the other hand ME3 endings ARE pure trash. They stink so bad that BW can't even go public with the next plot out of fear.

[MassPredator]

Not the entire game, just the ending.

[Khayan]

I'll be honest, I never disliked ME3. Whilst the original endings pre-extended cut were slightly ill conceived and without a proper resolution, the EC did offer a significant boon to the end, though I understand not all are pleased with it.

Whenever the subject of people being disappointed, angry or apathetic to ME3 I always find it odd, I view the game as a sum of its part and overall the game is excellent. Garrus and Tali return as the loveable companions they are, Garrus Vakarian being the most dependable and trustworthy friend Sheperd can ask for and in my opinion the greatest NPC in gaming to date. ME3 may have a few glaring errors but if you look at all the great storylines in the game then you should be able to appreciate it. The prayer beside Thane's bed, Mordin's "I made a mistake a mistake" and Legion's "Does this unit have a soul?" And his subtle transition from the we pronoun to the singular I. The conversations in the base before the final run on earth are all spectacular, again Garrus shines (Thanks to Brandon Keener).

Whilst there are things I wish had been included such as greater interaction with the ME2 squad mates, which thankfully the Citadel DLC included, I consider ME3 a successful end to a wonderful journey. Though of course this is just my view, I hadn't really payed much mind to bioware either before the ME series which then introduced me to Dragon Age. All in all, a great journey.

[Stalker]

I quote my favorite reviewer on this:
The series has not concluded so much with a bang or whimper, but more like the sound you get from releasing a balloon, watching it fart it's way across the lounge.

The game killed most of my fandom for the series but I go away more with an indifferent shrug than a huge outrage you could call hate.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 15 février 2014 - 12:31 .

[dreamgazer]

Mr Massakka wrote...

I quote my favorite reviewer on this:
The series has not concluded so much with a bang or whimper, but more like the sound you get from releasing a balloon, watching it fart it's way across the lounge.

The game killed most of my fandom for the series but I go away more with an indifferent shrug than a huge outrage you could call hate.

The sentences that come after are interesting, too:

I know a lot of people have been down on the ending, but I thought it could have been worse. That quote's not going to end up in any EA marketing material, but for what it's worth I'm not left disappointed.

That about sums up my impression. 

[Tron Mega]

im indifferent.

good luck to all involved.

Modifié par Tron Mega, 15 février 2014 - 01:54 .

[Invisible Man]

personally, I actually like ME3, I hate the ending... however, overall I still find the game enjoyable, even if the ending spoils it quite a bit.

[RogueBot]

I was never mad about the game, but time won't make it a better product. It's still a let-down. The writing in ME3 just didn't live up to Bioware's history. Not that their games were perfect, but they all had a well-rounded feeling to them (their great characters always eclipsed any weak spots).

Modifié par RogueBot, 15 février 2014 - 05:02 .

[q5tyhj]

I never hated ME3. The first time I played it, before the EC, I thought the ending was pretty short and felt incomplete. The first time I played the EC version, I thought it was way better. I didn't even notice a lot of the plot-holes and things people had issues with until I read about them later online. Even then, I don't have a HUGE problem with it, although I definitely think they've could've/should've done better, but ultimately, I'm neutral at worst and mildly positive at best on the endings specifically, and regarding the game and trilogy as a whole, I remain a total nerd fanboy. (proof: as I've posted elsewhere, I bought a ps4 over a month ago, and I haven't even TURNED IT ON in over 2 weeks now because I can't stop playing Mass Effect)

[q5tyhj]

RogueBot wrote...

I was never mad about the game, but time won't make it a better product. It's still a let-down. The writing in ME3 just didn't live up to Bioware's history. Not that their games were perfect, but they all had a well-rounded feeling to them (their great characters always eclipsed any weak spots).

Not to nitpick, but ME3 as a whole wasn't poorly written; alot of it is the exact opposite (case in point, the whole tuchanka sequence). It was the last 10 minutes or so that it all fell apart. 

[RogueBot]

q5tyhj wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

I was never mad about the game, but time won't make it a better product. It's still a let-down. The writing in ME3 just didn't live up to Bioware's history. Not that their games were perfect, but they all had a well-rounded feeling to them (their great characters always eclipsed any weak spots).

Not to nitpick, but ME3 as a whole wasn't poorly written; alot of it is the exact opposite (case in point, the whole tuchanka sequence). It was the last 10 minutes or so that it all fell apart. 

Yeah, there were some great moments, but the stupid moments were more obvious to me than they've been in any other Bioware game, such as everyone's blind faith in a device designed by some failed species and Shepard's idiotic pitch to the council that somehow joining forces to liberate Earth en masse was critical to defeat the Reapers, when really the risk-reward factor definitely isn't there. You also have the terrible opening sequence and dialogue, not to mention the attempt to contrive emotion using that little kid, who's just one of hundreds, if not thousands, of people Shepard has seen die. Not that Shepard's a sociopath, but at that point I don't believe someone like Shepard would dwell on the death of a kid who isn't the son of a close friend or something.

Maybe I'm just older and can't help but notice flaws, but this is the first time where Bioware's great characters could not save their weaker storylines. You're right that the ending was the worst aspect, though, and probably tipped it over the edge for me, even though I wasn't as upset as most people (I actually found the ending amusing in some ways).

Modifié par RogueBot, 15 février 2014 - 05:58 .

[q5tyhj]

RogueBot wrote...

q5tyhj wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

I was never mad about the game, but time won't make it a better product. It's still a let-down. The writing in ME3 just didn't live up to Bioware's history. Not that their games were perfect, but they all had a well-rounded feeling to them (their great characters always eclipsed any weak spots).

Not to nitpick, but ME3 as a whole wasn't poorly written; alot of it is the exact opposite (case in point, the whole tuchanka sequence). It was the last 10 minutes or so that it all fell apart. 

Yeah, there were some great moments, but the stupid moments were more obvious to me than they've been in any other Bioware game, such as everyone's blind faith in a device designed by some failed species and Shepard's idiotic pitch to the council that somehow joining forces to liberate Earth en masse was critical to defeat the Reapers, when really the risk-reward factor definitely isn't there. You also have the terrible opening sequence and dialogue, not to mention the attempt to contrive emotion using that little kid, who's just one of hundreds, if not thousands, of people Shepard has seen die. Not that Shepard's a sociopath, but at that point I don't believe someone like Shepard would dwell on the death of a kid who isn't the son of a close friend or something.

Maybe I'm just older and can't help but notice flaws, but this is the first time where Bioware's great characters could not save their weaker storylines. You're right that the ending was the worst aspect, though, and probably tipped it over the edge for me, even though I wasn't as upset as most people (I actually found the ending amusing in some ways).

Yeah, I guess that's the sort of thing that's just going to vary from person to person. For me, the "stupid moments" weren't glaring, because for the most part they're sort of par for the course for any video game, or even alot of sci-fi movies- silly or cliche dialogue, silly or cliche subplots, vagueness and plot-holes, etc. etc. And for the most part, if the game or movie has enough redeeming qualities- an immersive atmosphere and backstory (for Mass Effect thats a check), endearing characters (again, a check), humor (sometimes a check), and for a video game, enjoyable gameplay (the combat in ME3 especially is just plain fun), I end up just not really noticing or paying attention to these sorts of shortcomings- and doing so ends up spoiling what otherwise would be a fun experience anyways, so I guess that's a good thing. 

Anyways, not that it really means anything at this point, but what would've been really great is if ME3 could've had the same quality of storytelling as the first two but with the same improved action and control.

Modifié par q5tyhj, 15 février 2014 - 06:38 .

[Reorte]

Invisible Man wrote...

personally, I actually like ME3, I hate the ending... however, overall I still find the game enjoyable, even if the ending spoils it quite a bit.

The problem is that it hangs over the entire game, since it isn't just an awkward bit you can rush through then get back to the enjoyable parts.

[Jane Shepard]

I never hated Mass Effect 3. I love it! Well, except for autodialoues and Jacob's betrayal... The game is very good, and I still play it sometimes with my only FemShep.

[Aslanasadi]

Besides the endings we got I enjoyed Mass Effect 3. My main Shepard is still my most favorite game character. One day I might even play it again, but right now I rather use a lightsaber

[TheChris92]

Mr Massakka wrote...

I quote my favorite reviewer on this:
The series has not concluded so much with a bang or whimper, but more like the sound you get from releasing a balloon, watching it fart it's way across the lounge.

The game killed most of my fandom for the series but I go away more with an indifferent shrug than a huge outrage you could call hate.

Oh Yahtzee Croshaw, hehe

[KrazyKiko]

I will still say that ME1 is by far my preference. I don't hate the game - I simply dislike the direction Bioware took with 2 and 3. I enjoyed ME2, but the great departure from features I enjoyed (inventory, customization of weapons, squad armor, etc), really left me wanting more. I equate this to playing Madden's "off-season", going through the motions of drafting, coaching changes, stadium enhancements. While I did enjoy "playing the season" with my football team, I enjoyed these offseason activities more. I feel Bioware stripped out these ME1 "management" features and just gave me a team, the football schedule and alI I got to do was play the season. ME3, however, tried to restore some of this, but while an improvement, the minute details were still lost. Don't get me wrong, I loved playing the games, but Bioware's direction after the 1st game was a real disappointment.

[CrazyRah]

Neither hate it or like it, i'm mostly apathetic towards it and the franchise instead

[Razoredged2005]

Even though I do not hate the entire game, the way it ended killed the replay value for me along with any desire I had to buy the DLC for this game. Instead of walking away with a feeling of anger or outrage like some other people had, I walked away from the game with a feeling of "why bother?"