1638 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Countless big ships? How many showed up in Omega? (Never bought it) In the game proper all we see are a handful of cruisers.

Cruiser are big ships.  They take hundreds of people to crew and are order of magnitude bigger than the Normandy.

That Cerberus could have just one stretches credibility.  But as it turns out they have a bunch (no specific number given though) guarding Omega.
 
Aria captured one before the DLC and uses it to sneak in close to Omega

Liara destroys another with the Shadow Broker ship before the game started

One attacks Grissom Academy

Another attacks Tuchanka to grab that ancient space cannon

I'm probably missing others.  I mean, the attack on Kronos station forces Hackett to move in enough troops to tip off the Reapers.  Cerberus certainly had some serious defenses there.

But yeah, Cerberus has a serious fleet with all the equipment and personel to run it in less than a year.

[xAmilli0n]

iakus wrote...

But yeah, Cerberus has a serious fleet with all the equipment and personel to run it in less than a year.

Yeah, that never sat well with me.  I think someone would have noticed all these people and heavy cruisers suddenly dissapearing, and I highly doubt he manufactured them himself.

[Rusty Sandusky]

StreetMagic wrote...

The more I think about Cerberus, the more I think the whole game is a simulation or delusion on Shepard's part.

Although it could be that Cerberus has been biding their time though since ME1. Ever noticed that Binary Helix logo is very similar to Cerberus? They were working for Saren back then. Maybe BH and Cerberus are one and the same.

Well it is said that Cerberus has many fronts so this could happen

[Madcat 124]

I don't exactly hate it, I just wish we could have gotten a better ending.

[ImaginaryMatter]

StreetMagic wrote...

The more I think about Cerberus, the more I think the whole game is a simulation or delusion on Shepard's part.

Although it could be that Cerberus has been biding their time though since ME1. Ever noticed that Binary Helix logo is very similar to Cerberus? They were working for Saren back then. Maybe BH and Cerberus are one and the same. edit: That doesn't explain the fleet, but it could explain the credits, and that they've been big players for awhile now.

It always bothered me that it becomes a fundamentally different organization in evey game, unless their business is plot catering. To me one of the greatest missteps in the series was elevating Cerberus. Yet, despite how advanced they get they can't manage to launch an endeavor that doesn't result in either the destruction of Cerberus property and personel, or the death of human civilians.

They're also probably the reason I'll never read the Mass Effect alternate media because to my understanding they ooze their way into almost everything.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 19 février 2014 - 08:55 .

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Countless big ships? How many showed up in Omega? (Never bought it) In the game proper all we see are a handful of cruisers.

Cruiser are big ships.  They take hundreds of people to crew and are order of magnitude bigger than the Normandy.

They're big ships? Really? (/sarcasm) 

I know they're big ships. That's why I was asking for a count of them.

"Countless" is still ridiculous hyperbole.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 février 2014 - 09:17 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Countless big ships? How many showed up in Omega? (Never bought it) In the game proper all we see are a handful of cruisers.

Cruiser are big ships.  They take hundreds of people to crew and are order of magnitude bigger than the Normandy.

They're big ships? Really? (/sarcasm) 

I know they're big ships. That's why I was asking for a count of them.

"Countless" is still ridiculous hyperbole.

And I said that having even one strained credibility.  Having two would be ridiculous.  Cerberus had more than two.  It doesn't matter if it's three, thirty three or "countless".  The silliness bar is already maxed out.   You're picking nits on choice of words rather than addressing the issue.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Countless big ships? How many showed up in Omega? (Never bought it) In the game proper all we see are a handful of cruisers.

Cruiser are big ships.  They take hundreds of people to crew and are order of magnitude bigger than the Normandy.

They're big ships? Really? (/sarcasm) 

I know they're big ships. That's why I was asking for a count of them.

"Countless" is still ridiculous hyperbole.

And I said that having even one strained credibility.  Having two would be ridiculous.  Cerberus had more than two.  It doesn't matter if it's three, thirty three or "countless".  The silliness bar is already maxed out.   You're picking nits on choice of words rather than addressing the issue.

EDI even says that Cerberus had only 150 operatives. Even if they had the resources and the shipyards to build up a fleet that size in a year, there is no way they had the skilled labor to contruct them. There is absolutely no way that a hilariously incompetant organization such as that somehow managed to do any of that. Even their one "sucess", Lazarus Project, failed. Almost every single member left, taking with it a 4 billion credit investment in Shepard and however much the SR2 cost. Then, the one they spent 4 billion credits bringing back from the dead, blows up the collector base and goes on to systematically foil every single project Cerberus had after, assuming a pargon/completionist playthrough. 

Yet, they managed to build a very large fleet of cruisers. Hmmmmm. 

[Pantegana]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Countless big ships? How many showed up in Omega? (Never bought it) In the game proper all we see are a handful of cruisers.

Cruiser are big ships.  They take hundreds of people to crew and are order of magnitude bigger than the Normandy.

That Cerberus could have just one stretches credibility.  But as it turns out they have a bunch (no specific number given though) guarding Omega.
 
Aria captured one before the DLC and uses it to sneak in close to Omega

Liara destroys another with the Shadow Broker ship before the game started

One attacks Grissom Academy

Another attacks Tuchanka to grab that ancient space cannon

I'm probably missing others.  I mean, the attack on Kronos station forces Hackett to move in enough troops to tip off the Reapers.  Cerberus certainly had some serious defenses there.

But yeah, Cerberus has a serious fleet with all the equipment and personel to run it in less than a year.

Exactly, cruisers are big and expensive ships. They've got firepower and crew complement superior to any frigate and they're bloody expensive.
Even having only one cruiser should be something exceptional for Cerby. Especially considering that in ME2 is clear that TYM has put most of Cerberus' resources into lazarus and the normandy (EDI states it).
But TYM manages to build a fleet, assemble a big enough crew complement, train the crewmen (because it's not like you can just grab a bunch of peasants tell 'em to fly the bloody thing) and build a ground army en passant.
And nobody notices it. Like he's a space magician pulling cruisers out of a space hat. <_<
And don't tell me it's because of "indoctrination" because you can't just indoctrinate a piece of scrap metal into turning itself in a starship.

[Mcfly616]

So, how is Cerberus having a fleet "ridiculous"?


Haven't seen a single concrete point that discredits its plausibility...

[Iakus]

Pantegana wrote...
Exactly, cruisers are big and expensive ships. They've got firepower and crew complement superior to any frigate and they're bloody expensive.
Even having only one cruiser should be something exceptional for Cerby. Especially considering that in ME2 is clear that TYM has put most of Cerberus' resources into lazarus and the normandy (EDI states it).
But TYM manages to build a fleet, assemble a big enough crew complement, train the crewmen (because it's not like you can just grab a bunch of peasants tell 'em to fly the bloody thing) and build a ground army en passant.
And nobody notices it. Like he's a space magician pulling cruisers out of a space hat. <_<
And don't tell me it's because of "indoctrination" because you can't just indoctrinate a piece of scrap metal into turning itself in a starship.

Clearly Darth Malak leased TIM the Star Forge

[Mcfly616]

EDI does say that Cerberus has 150 "operatives". But, what qualifies as an operative? Miranda, obviously....but who else? Is every person in the employ of Cerberus considered an "operative"? Doubtful.

[Bob from Accounting]

I certainly hope the people preaching the expense of ships have never been the the people making arguments that the Council, Alliance, etc. should be able to summon gigantic fleets out of nowhere since citzens are obviously thrilled to see their taxes grow exponentially because the government warns of impending galatic annihilation.

Modifié par Bob from Accounting, 19 février 2014 - 10:14 .

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

So, how is Cerberus having a fleet "ridiculous"?


Haven't seen a single concrete point that discredits its plausibility...

Besides the minor detail that as of the end of ME2, Cerberus didn't have enough operatives (let alone trained operatives) to crew even one cruiser?

That it took two years to secretly build a single frigate?

That the Lazarus Project was a significant financial and technical drain on Cerberus, made worse by the Grayson incident, so Cerberus wasn't even operating at peak capacity?

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The Normandy SR1 cost 150 billion credits. Admiral Mikhailovich states that for that much they could' built have built a heavy cruiser. Lazarus, Shepard+SR2, probably cost around 354 billion credits. Which was a huge drain on Cerberus's coffers. Even if they could gain back the loss, AND had the man power, AND had the crew, they could still only build 2 cruisers.

[Mcfly616]

iakus wrote...


Besides the minor detail that as of the end of ME2, Cerberus didn't have enough operatives (let alone trained operatives) to crew even one cruiser?

That it took two years to secretly build a single frigate?

That the Lazarus Project was a significant financial and technical drain on Cerberus, made worse by the Grayson incident, so Cerberus wasn't even operating at peak capacity?

when does it say that they don't have enough operatives to crew a cruiser? (not that a ship would need an entire crew of "operatives")


What does the secret construction of the mostly highly advanced ship ever conceived  have anything to do with ships that they may have already had?


The Lazarus Project was a significant investment. Significant investment meaning they spent a large amount of money and resources. Depending on how much money you actually have, a significant investment won't necessarily put a dent in your checkbook. Donald Trump makes significant investments all the time. He's not going broke anytime soon.


Probably should drop the term "operative" out of the equation/discussion. The CIA has operatives. But not every CIA employee is a CIA Operative. They have operatives and then they have every other position in the book. 

Modifié par Mcfly616, 19 février 2014 - 11:15 .

[Mcfly616]

TheOneTrueBioticGod wrote...

 Even if they could gain back the loss, AND had the man power, AND had the crew, they could still only build 2 cruisers.

Please, could you share Cerberus' financial report with all of us?


I've always been curious about the exact amount of money they actually have....

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...
] when does it say that they don't have enough operatives to crew a cruiser? (not that a ship would need an entire crew of "operatives")

http://www.youtube.c...rGF5SDE3RE#t=15

As of ME2, they had about 150 operatives.  About half the number needed to crew a cruiser

What does the secret construction of the mostly highly advanced ship ever conceived  have anything to do with ships that they may have already had?

The fact that this ship was downright tiny compared to a cruiser, let alone multiple cruisers, and it still took several years to assemble the parts and build?

If you think they already had this fleet just lying around doing nithing, all I have to say is 

:lol:

The Lazarus Project was a significant investment. Significant investment meaning they spent a large amount of money and resources. Depending on how much money you actually have, a significant investment won't necessarily put a dent in your checkbook. Donald Trump makes significant investments all the time. He's not going broke anytime soon.

The cost to ressurect Shepard is in the billions, with a "b"  And that's without the Normandy or EDI.  

Modifié par iakus, 20 février 2014 - 12:34 .

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Please, could you share Cerberus' financial report with all of us?


I've always been curious about the exact amount of money they actually have....

The answer, apparantly is "Enough for Bioware to do whatever the frak they want, screw logic."

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

iakus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Please, could you share Cerberus' financial report with all of us?


I've always been curious about the exact amount of money they actually have....

The answer, apparantly is "Enough for Bioware to do whatever the frak they want, screw logic."

Remember. Cerberus is as strong and competent as the plot needs them to be!

Modifié par Lizardviking, 20 février 2014 - 12:40 .

[Mcfly616]

Idc how small the Normandy is compared to a cruiser. It's the most advanced ship in the galaxy for a reason. Just because it took 2 years to build it, doesn't mean anything in regards to a bigger yet much less technologically advanced ship.


I'm well aware how much Shepard "cost". Who cares about billions when they could possibly have trillions? Quadrillions? Their donors could be billionaires from all over. Point is, you don't know how deep their pocketbook is, and you don't know that they never had other ships.

(I mean, they had multiple space stations and facilities all over the galaxy....but you find it hard to believe that they have ships? Hmm...)


Your argument holds no water without the knowledge of such things....

Modifié par Mcfly616, 20 février 2014 - 12:47 .